Frankly, these days if I want to scratch my itch for tactical combat, videogames offer a much more practical and usually deeper solution. So no, I dont look for complex tactical combat system in tabletop RPGs.

Quote from: Itachi on December 06, 2020, 08:07:52 PM
Frankly, these days if I want to scratch my itch for tactical combat, videogames offer a much more practical and usually deeper solution. So no, I dont look for complex tactical combat system in tabletop RPGs.

Sure video games are more efficient at taking care of the fiddly numbers.  But if I want a tactical game _and_ the social situation of sitting around a table with my friends, then tactical RPGs, or even wargames, are the way to go.

Quote from: Mishihari on December 07, 2020, 09:19:23 AM

Quote from: Itachi on December 06, 2020, 08:07:52 PM
Frankly, these days if I want to scratch my itch for tactical combat, videogames offer a much more practical and usually deeper solution. So no, I dont look for complex tactical combat system in tabletop RPGs.

Sure video games are more efficient at taking care of the fiddly numbers.  But if I want a tactical game _and_ the social situation of sitting around a table with my friends, then tactical RPGs, or even wargames, are the way to go.

That even spills over into video games for me. I enjoy multiplayer "couch co-op" with two+ playing the game in the same room (e.g., Borderlands split screen), but I find that the far more common online play doesn't appeal to me at all. Even then, I tend to have more fun with a tabletop game, whether RPG or other (currently playing a lot of ADB's Federation Commander).

Quote from: Mishihari on December 07, 2020, 09:19:23 AM

Quote from: Itachi on December 06, 2020, 08:07:52 PM
Frankly, these days if I want to scratch my itch for tactical combat, videogames offer a much more practical and usually deeper solution. So no, I dont look for complex tactical combat system in tabletop RPGs.

Sure video games are more efficient at taking care of the fiddly numbers.  But if I want a tactical game _and_ the social situation of sitting around a table with my friends, then tactical RPGs, or even wargames, are the way to go.

Oh yeah, I'm with you here. The social aspect of a group of friends playing a tabletop rpg or boardgame is really great.

Quote from: Mishihari on December 07, 2020, 09:19:23 AM

Quote from: Itachi on December 06, 2020, 08:07:52 PM
Frankly, these days if I want to scratch my itch for tactical combat, videogames offer a much more practical and usually deeper solution. So no, I dont look for complex tactical combat system in tabletop RPGs.

Sure video games are more efficient at taking care of the fiddly numbers.  But if I want a tactical game _and_ the social situation of sitting around a table with my friends, then tactical RPGs, or even wargames, are the way to go.

100% agree. Give me the crunchiest tactical game and with the right group around the table it's magic that you can't get from a computer game.

I like blending the styles, with a stronger focus on the "game" aspect than the story aspect. If anything I'd describe the story as emergent from gameplay, and the last thing I want is be forced into acting out an amateur writers crappy fan fic novella. Although it also dosent have to be anywhere near a pure sandbox either, as I have enjoyed games where the overarching structure has been railroady (DMing moving us from adventure A to adventure B). The requirements for me are player agency, divergent outcomes, and risk/consequences being present. These are non negotiable deal breakers.

My "story vs game" attitude mirrors my preference on "old vs new school" games. I like my games closer to oldschool but dislike save or die, prodding at every corner with ten foot poles, players mapping or getting lost over their inaccurate mapping, or 3d6 down the line But I also dislike feats, a cosmopolitan light hearted critical role world where tielflings and dragon born are hanging out with humans in bars. I dislike magic being so commonplace it basically acts as a stand in for technology. I like resource management, random encounters, and a risk of death always being present. I like caution from the players, but not paranoia where exploration can become a grind. Boldness is rewarded but stupidity is punished.

IME it dosent need to be a binary choice in extremes whether its story vs game, or oldschool vs newschool. The right attributes of each can be combined to complement each other.

Quote from: deathknight4044 on December 08, 2020, 12:30:46 AM
a cosmopolitan light hearted critical role world where tielflings and dragon born are hanging out with humans in bars. I dislike magic being so commonplace it basically acts as a stand in for technology.

Hey there. Welcome to the forum!

I have to agree with most of what you said. Though I do like 3d6 down the line, as playing flawed characters is its own special kind of fun. It can be very rewarding to have a 7 STR fighter succeed. Stat advantage is not as important as people tend to think.

Your quote above. LOL. 100%. I'll go extreme here and say that's not even playing an RPG. It's more like cosplay or superficial dress-up where everyone is the same person they are IRL the just have "cool" affectations and neat gear. Role play is hard! I've got a cleric going in a game and I have to constantly remind myself to behave like a zealot. Like actively try not to be just a regular guy who happens to be able to heal everyone. You want healing? You must first accept my god into your heart (or at least pretend to).

Watch out though. If that cosmopolitan world where tieflings and dragonborn meet at bars is the city of Sigil from planescape, chances are they follow some of the setting's factions, meaning they adhere to codes of conduct and must uphold those personal values, which may result in an interesting game of conflicting philosophies and agenda, not unlike a Vampire the masquerade urban sandbox, only with factions clashing instead of clans.

Of course, you may not appreciate that either, but it's a valid mode of play that a lot of players find fun to engage.

Quote from: deathknight4044 on December 08, 2020, 12:30:46 AM
But I also dislike feats, a cosmopolitan light hearted critical role world where tielflings and dragon born are hanging out with humans in bars. I dislike magic being so commonplace it basically acts as a stand in for technology.

I dislike feats as implemented 3e/4E (too many, too general, too minor in effect), but I do think a "feat-like object" can be a useful tool in creating distinctive characters; the weapon style selection for the 5e fighters are basically "feats", but they're limited only to choosing specific combat options instead of anything under the sun.

As to the cosmopolitan; I think many settings would benefit from having a distinction between the "general population" and the "adventuring population" ratios.

As an extreme example, in my world both humans and dragons can be PCs. There's a million humans for every dragon, but every dragon is equivalent to a PC while only one-in-a-million humans meets that standard. Thus the adventuring population ratio is 1 PC human for every PC dragon, even though humans are a million times more common than dragons in the general population.

For a sci-fi equivalent; Stargate SG-1 just got back on Netflix. Teal'c is a quarter of the team we follow, but that doesn't mean a quarter of Stargate Command is Jaffa. Indeed, he's literally the only Jaffa in a population of seven billion people on the planet.

The point being that just because Tieflings and Dragonborn might be equally available to PCs (akin to protagonists of a series) doesn't mean they have to have the same mix in your general population. They can just as easily be a Teal'c or a Commander Data.

As to magic in my settings; I honestly prefer "magic" to be relatively common, at least certain kinds of it. But I run with a decidedly post-apocalyptic world (which was previously a magi-tech utopia) where small bits of mostly useless magic help establish what's been lost; the owner of the tavern has an old recording crystal that has a few pre-Cataclysm musical performances (about three hours worth) that he plays for his patrons when a live bard or performer isn't available. The locals treat it as background elevator muzak because they've heard it so many times before, but new travelers are always amazed.

The same with an arcane forge that requires no fuel used by one vilage smith, but it ways a dozen tons so it's not at all something that could be carted off. Or Lord Nicholis, whose golem horse, while slower than the real thing (so not great for travel), never tires when pulling a plow and so he rents it out to his farmers to make their planting and harvesting easier and produces a bigger harvest of which he gains a share.

Things like that really help establish the theme that the PCs are living in the ashes of a once mighty civilization and who knows what they might find if they risk exploring the ruins beyond the safe walls of civilization.

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
You want healing? You must first accept my god into your heart (or at least pretend to).

You want me to stop the Troll chewing on you?

Should have thought about that when I wanted some healing.

Quote from: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 02:48:41 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
You want healing? You must first accept my god into your heart (or at least pretend to).

You want me to stop the Troll chewing on you?

Should have thought about that when I wanted some healing.

Ha! Corporeal death by a mere troll is infinitely more preferable to the eternal damnation my spirit would have received by healing an infidel! Smite me oh great God, you who works your wonders through this troll, so that I may pay for my sin of even considering healing this unbeliever!

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 03:03:29 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 02:48:41 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
You want healing? You must first accept my god into your heart (or at least pretend to).

You want me to stop the Troll chewing on you?

Should have thought about that when I wanted some healing.

Ha! Corporeal death by a mere troll is infinitely more preferable to the eternal damnation my spirit would have received by healing an infidel! Smite me oh great God, you who works your wonders through this troll, so that I may pay for my sin of even considering healing this unbeliever!

I love the roleplaying of Int as your dump stat.

Quote from: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 04:17:06 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 03:03:29 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on December 08, 2020, 02:48:41 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 08, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
You want healing? You must first accept my god into your heart (or at least pretend to).

You want me to stop the Troll chewing on you?

Should have thought about that when I wanted some healing.

Ha! Corporeal death by a mere troll is infinitely more preferable to the eternal damnation my spirit would have received by healing an infidel! Smite me oh great God, you who works your wonders through this troll, so that I may pay for my sin of even considering healing this unbeliever!

I love the roleplaying of Int as your dump stat.

Intelligence is an illusion! It is only by faith that we can acquire our rightful place in the endless spirals of creation and destruction. After this troll tears me asunder, surely he will show you the one true way. Or the next troll will. Or the next. Goodbye friend! Moloch is with you even if you deny Him! Aaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggg.......<splat>.

I guess the ones that freaked out over tracking of arrows they shouldn't freak out if I don't keep track of the gold I spend or the spells I cast or the potions I drink right? Sweet!

Quote from: Krugus on December 08, 2020, 08:18:36 PM
I guess the ones that freaked out over tracking of arrows they shouldn't freak out if I don't keep track of the gold I spend or the spells I cast or the potions I drink right? Sweet!

Sure, as long as your potions and spells cost 1gp for every 20 uses.