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Author Topic: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?  (Read 3797 times)

oggsmash

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2021, 10:03:53 AM »
Greetings!

The idea is terrible and very offensive. Advertising and promoting such a game depicting such, as Jaeger mentioned, is like a neon sign invitation to being beaten to death with a lead pipe. Considering that in our world right now, people have been attacked, beaten and or killed for far less.

Fast food workers not bringing food fast enough and being assaulted or killed;

Store employees asking someone politely to wear a mask and being assaulted and beaten;

Innocent people sitting outside choosing not to wear a mask, and having women come up to them and attack them and throw hot coffee in their face;

Uber drivers picking someone up for a ride and being tazered to death.

So, promoting a "game" depicting Jesus as a vampire...just no. I don't think such a "game" would be a good idea and would recommend against it very strongly.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
I agree, it's really important that we avoid anything that might offend anyone. We must make sure everything is bland and inoffensive, or we deserve all the mostly peaceful bone-breaking that comes our way. Because violence isn't real violence, it's words that are the real violence. Censorship is the only way to make the spaces we exist in safe and secure!

  Well, I understand your point, and I think Shark is over the top, but I censor myself ALL THE TIME.  As a matter of fact any and every even close to sensible person does, because it is a form of civility.  I am not for attempting to do the absolutely most provoking and offensive thing possible.  Many places do have what are called "fighting words", meaning if you intentionally provoke someone with your offensive words, and get your ass kicked, the police can consider it personal combat or an affray (misdemeanor) instead of an assault.   I am not certain such a premise as the OP put forth would rise to that, but I also do not intend to present games where rape is a main theme, or genocide, or serial torture and murder.  Because all of those to certain people are on the same ground.

   Lots of people worry about things being too bland, and I get that, but though I favor spicy food alot, there is such a thing as way too spicy.  I find the people who THINK they want super spicy are often the ones I see sweating bullets and sending the order back after a couple bites.

Cave Bear

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2021, 10:22:42 AM »
Death cult, lots of references to blood, keeps coming back, wants people to "let him in".

I can see a game where that is a secret truth. I can also see people going absolutely crazy just mentioning the idea.

Could it Ever be done? Is there a group of people that would actually give it a go?

I'd probably allow it, but I'm not part of your gaming group. Just read the room.

Reckall

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2021, 10:58:06 AM »
Well, I put my brain on the idea, but - even if we ignore how gratuitously offensive it is (*) - I simply can't find a scenario where it works.

The only use I can see for such an idea is the final revelation of an exceptionally dark version of "The DaVinci Code", or something like that.

(*) Because, do not let SJWs confuse you: some things do cross a line.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Arkansan

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2021, 11:01:46 AM »
Is there a group out there that would go for it? Sure, I imagine you could dig up a table full of fedora tippers who would find it great fun.

There's all manner of cringe inducing shit that gets made. Just don't get all up in arms when people call you out on your bullshit.

Svenhelgrim

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2021, 11:16:21 AM »
Gimmick characters tend to meet a really horrible and embarrassing fate.  But you do you.

ScytheSong

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2021, 11:57:25 AM »
To add to my earlier drive-by, "Jesus is a Vampire, LOL suckers!" has all of the problems everyone else mentioned.

On the other hand, in a system like Vampire: the Masquerade where True Faith is a thing, the slow reveal that Jesus' blood in a communion service actually is a source of revitalization or even redemption for vampires (rather than the traditional the host or cup will burn or repel a vampire just like a cross) was something that I actually played with back when I was in my twenties. I actually have a couple of war stories about that, involving Holy Week, a priest, and a Tremere (both with True Faith).

Reckall

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2021, 12:38:28 PM »
To add to my earlier drive-by, "Jesus is a Vampire, LOL suckers!" has all of the problems everyone else mentioned.

On the other hand, in a system like Vampire: the Masquerade where True Faith is a thing, the slow reveal that Jesus' blood in a communion service actually is a source of revitalization or even redemption for vampires (rather than the traditional the host or cup will burn or repel a vampire just like a cross) was something that I actually played with back when I was in my twenties. I actually have a couple of war stories about that, involving Holy Week, a priest, and a Tremere (both with True Faith).

Hmmm... Maybe it's me but your storyline is unclear. If you mean that you had "Christian" vampires who, instead of wine, used literal blood, or some ritual that turns wine into blood, then it works - but as a workaround. I still can't see how the original Jesus could have been a oWoD vampire, though. Even unrecognised or "heretical" Chronicles from the era have him walking and preaching in full sunlight, for example.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.


Chris24601

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 01:33:53 PM »
Death cult, lots of references to blood, keeps coming back, wants people to "let him in".
Speaking as someone who is a pretty strong and active Chrstian; your presentation of Christianity is so radically off from reality I can’t even be offended; just embarrassed for you that your idea sounds like the sort of thing a 12 year old boy would think is hilarious and edgy... like drawing dicks and boobies on pictures.

Christianity is such a death cult that it condemns both murder and suicide and preaches eternal life where one can never die; also heals the sick and raises the dead. So basically a Life cult... a garden, not a grave.

Blood has been seen as the source of life since the dawn of history (you try living without it) which is why vampires steal it from the living to sustain themselves. Jesus instead gives his blood away...so again, opposite land from a vampire.

And references to blood are just a tiny part; how about living (i.e. flowing) water, to being the light of the world and associated with daytime (and most of his recorded appearances post resurrection were during the day) and with purifying fire. He doesn’t fear the cross for it was the means by which he destroyed the power of death. Basically he claims to embody all the things that are traditionally banes of vampires.

Likewise, Jesus didn’t keep coming back; he rose once and then ascended to Heaven. Post resurrection apparitions are almost invariably Mary, other saints or angels.

Also it’s not “let me in” (seriously, I defy you to find that anywhere in the Bible), it’s “come and follow me.” Also, post-resurrection Jesus regularly appeared in locked rooms and other places he wasn’t invited (because it all belongs to Him as King of the Universe anyway).

So, basically, you have to so misdefine Christianity to try and make it fit vampirism that it will always be taken asthe ravings of an ignoramous who can’t even bother to do proper research in their desperate bid for attention seeking.

Also, just reconfirming the above makes it even more obvious that Jesus and vampires are basically exact opposites and so the vampire is far better represented in a setting as an Antichrist figure.

Try harder little edgelord. Right now your average SJW wackadoodle presents more offensive attacks on the Church. You’re just that twelve year old who thinks he’s so cool scribbling cartoon dicks onto pictures with a sharpie.

Quote from:  Reckall
Hmmm... Maybe it's me but your storyline is unclear.
Actually, it’s a really old bit of VtM lore... if a Catholic Priest with True Faith performs the Mass then a vampire can drink the communion wine (provided they make their conscience check to avoid it scalding them like liquid sunlight) to regain blood points because they are consuming the actual blood of Christ (if they succeeded on the test they also gained a dot of True Faith and Prey Exclusion: Catholic Priests).

There was even a monastic order of vampires I believe who were sustained entirely on the Blood of Christ they consumed at a nightly midnight Mass. It later got retconned out as making things “too easy” to avoid being monsters (and it made the Catholic Church into unabashed good guys when their early progressive inclinations wanted the Inquisition as portrayed by the notoriously anti-Catholic Jack Chick).


Greentongue

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 01:58:54 PM »
Well, I put my brain on the idea, but - even if we ignore how gratuitously offensive it is (*) - I simply can't find a scenario where it works.

The only use I can see for such an idea is the final revelation of an exceptionally dark version of "The DaVinci Code", or something like that.

(*) Because, do not let SJWs confuse you: some things do cross a line.

IF I was to do it, yeah, the END REVEAL would be where. An attempt for, "Didn't see that coming". Though if done the way I would think was right, they would see it coming, at the END. 

Greentongue

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 02:05:39 PM »
Hmmm... Maybe it's me but your storyline is unclear. If you mean that you had "Christian" vampires who, instead of wine, used literal blood, or some ritual that turns wine into blood, then it works - but as a workaround. I still can't see how the original Jesus could have been a oWoD vampire, though. Even unrecognised or "heretical" Chronicles from the era have him walking and preaching in full sunlight, for example.
There are a lot of redacted texts and revisionism so, finding those would be the point of the game.

Reckall

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 03:17:01 PM »
Quote from:  Reckall
Hmmm... Maybe it's me but your storyline is unclear.
Actually, it’s a really old bit of VtM lore... if a Catholic Priest with True Faith performs the Mass then a vampire can drink the communion wine (provided they make their conscience check to avoid it scalding them like liquid sunlight)
Er... I don't see how a oWoD Vampire can do a "conscience check" (except maybe if you follow a very narrow - and boring - path; is that even possible in the setting?) Dabbling in magic would be grounds enough to end up cremated.

The best I can imagine was for Jesus to be aware of Vampires and thus creating a way for them to be Saved too. These testimonies then survived in secret texts as part of the Masquerade. Dunno... It could be an interesting concept for some.

Honestly, that I'm a Vampire, another Vampire rings my doorbell, gives me some pamphlets and tells me "Are you interested in being saved by Jesus?" is a very funny image...  ;D
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

jeff37923

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2021, 04:51:19 PM »
Apparently, the OP is not the only one thinking about this......

"Meh."

BronzeDragon

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2021, 04:59:47 PM »
Death cult, lots of references to blood, keeps coming back, wants people to "let him in".

I can see a game where that is a secret truth. I can also see people going absolutely crazy just mentioning the idea.

Could it Ever be done? Is there a group of people that would actually give it a go?

The DM says:
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Chris24601

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Re: How Much Trouble Would Playing Jesus As A Vampire Cause?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2021, 05:13:48 PM »
Quote from:  Reckall
Hmmm... Maybe it's me but your storyline is unclear.
Actually, it’s a really old bit of VtM lore... if a Catholic Priest with True Faith performs the Mass then a vampire can drink the communion wine (provided they make their conscience check to avoid it scalding them like liquid sunlight)
Er... I don't see how a oWoD Vampire can do a "conscience check" (except maybe if you follow a very narrow - and boring - path; is that even possible in the setting?) Dabbling in magic would be grounds enough to end up cremated.
oWoD Vampire literally has a stat called Conscience which, along with Self-Control and Courage, define your ability to resist the influence of The Beast upon you.

The normal role for conscience checks is if you perform an evil act to see if you actually feel remorse for it or just say “fuck it” and take one step closer to being nothing more than a monster.

In this case, they used the conscience stat as basically a “are you still open enough to the saving grace of God to receive the blood of God as spiritual nourishment or do you fall short and instead get burned by the holy power of God contained within?”