Quote from: Greentongue on September 05, 2020, 03:36:38 PM
With all the resources for playing 3D, virtually or not, at what point has the shark been jumped?

At what point does the setup time taken exceed the enjoyment of the results?

It depends.


For me, I like terrain and miniatures. And I like making terrain and painting miniatures. And my players like the miniatures and terrain. So, I use miniatures and terrain to the extent that I can within the time that I have for RPGing.


YMWV.

Overhead bridges, fighting vertically, bad guys hurling rocks down upon you while your mage spider climbs up desperate to defenestrate the asshole...
I find using my terrain inspires me to make new interesting situations and is a lot of fun to design.

Here's my usual setup:  Black Magic's Stackers and Dungeon Craft's Ultimate Dungeon Terrain.

I did it on the cheap with an $9 lazy susan and blue tack for the base/connector. 

Quote from: Greentongue on September 06, 2020, 02:20:08 PM
I assume you have seen the "in play" videos and the examples of what is possible?
Like: [size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2kkQ-K0ARw[/size]

I meant more like this, with apologies to those who don't like clicking links from a forum - basically it's a 55" screen mounted flat in a table. I have to admit it looks amazing. But potential marital constraints have not gone away. Nothing says "neckbeard" quite like having a large TV mounted in a table...

Certainly amazing for those that can still meet Face 2 Face still.
This just highlights my question. Is this level of investment worth it?


Every game has a high level of expectations set for the DM to deliver "video game" level of graphics and animation.
The digital objects used are expected to be related to the description of the scene the action is taking place in.
Putting the DM in the position of scouring the internet for matching content or manually creating it in a timely fashion for each upcoming game.


Making sure the digital content matches the feel of the description of the rest of the game up to this point.
Making sure that they are consistent so you don't have grim dark mixed with cartoon style in a jarring fashion.

Still, just using a blank sheet of digital paper, a digital pen, and  a handful of digital miniatures seems less than what the potential is.

Quote from: Greentongue on September 08, 2020, 01:38:13 PMEvery game has a high level of expectations set for the DM to deliver "video game" level of graphics and animation. The digital objects used are expected to be related to the description of the scene the action is taking place in. Putting the DM in the position of scouring the internet for matching content or manually creating it in a timely fashion for each upcoming game.

This is inaccurate and only applies to some groups some of the time. Based on my experience this attitude is not held by the majority of hobbyists.

Quote from: Greentongue on September 08, 2020, 01:38:13 PM
Certainly amazing for those that can still meet Face 2 Face still.
This just highlights my question. Is this level of investment worth it?

One makes the investment because they can and they and their group enjoys the spectacle it brings. If one feels like they have to make such an investment, then they need to find a different group.


As for myself, I used battlemat, dry erase, props, and minis since the early 80s. An important part of my enjoyment from using it was because of the clarity using it had because I am 50% deaf in a way that hearing aids doesn't fully correct.


Now that I am older and have a bit more disposable income, I bought into a grand of Dwarven Forge. I got it because I wanted to get it.  After the City Kickstarter, I realized they were more about producing diorama pieces so skipped further DF KS unless they related to the dungeon, or cavern sets I gotten earlier.


Nothing bad about diorama pieces, if that one jam, but it isn't mine. Nor did I feel need to purchase beyond what I had. I am not looking to construct a whole dungeon at once. I just need enough quantity and variety to build out the immediate area that the players are aware of. When I hit that I stopped buying whole sets.


Each person I know who referee, have their own perspective on how much they want to invest and  in what form. The key thing is to buy at the level that is fun, affordable, and works with one's style

My current setup is a tupperware tub of various miniatures I've collected over the years. Mostly the pre-paints from the D&D "wars" series. And some I've painted myself. A smaller tub of sci-fi miniatures and some spaceships especially put together for Starfinder. A few of the blank grid maps I can draw on with a dry erase pen, and a couple of starfield maps.
We do a lot of proxying, as long as we have miniatures that come close to what they're supposed to represent.

Don't get into it unless you had some love either digital modeling excetera for that side, and don't enjoy the Miniatures Hobby in and of itself.


You're the DM you have enough to do.  If your side hobby isn't computer modeling or miniature painting, go low-key with Lego stand-ins and be done.

3D or 2D miniatures out on the tabletop to demonstrate relative positioning, without 3D terrain; is most common for me.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 06, 2020, 09:24:17 PM
There was a very short-lived game called 'HeroScape' which used plastic hex components to form three-dimensional terrain. The game didn't sell well, and would be a footnote... except that the hex sizes were just PERFECT for Battletech.

Trust me, it's one thing to know there's level 3 hills in the way; it's another to be able to see 'em.

Actually HeroScape chugged along for a good while before WOTC killed it off as usual.
First set was in 2004.
Then Hasbro handed it off to WOTC in 2010 and they transitioned it into D&D HeroScape. And ended it in the same year.
So 6 years and quite a few sets.

Quote from: Omega on September 09, 2020, 11:53:49 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 06, 2020, 09:24:17 PM
There was a very short-lived game called 'HeroScape' which used plastic hex components to form three-dimensional terrain. The game didn't sell well, and would be a footnote... except that the hex sizes were just PERFECT for Battletech.

Trust me, it's one thing to know there's level 3 hills in the way; it's another to be able to see 'em.

Actually HeroScape chugged along for a good while before WOTC killed it off as usual.
First set was in 2004.
Then Hasbro handed it off to WOTC in 2010 and they transitioned it into D&D HeroScape. And ended it in the same year.
So 6 years and quite a few sets.

It's still great to use for Battletech games

For those interested in HeroScape, Tabletop Simulator has an unlimited supply.


Again, the question is how much time do you invest in creating a 3D scene even when you have all the supplies you need to do so? While I like creating a diorama, for gaming there has to be some "break even" point I would think.

Quote from: Greentongue on September 09, 2020, 02:07:36 PM
Again, the question is how much time do you invest in creating a 3D scene even when you have all the supplies you need to do so? While I like creating a diorama, for gaming there has to be some "break even" point I would think.

As long as it takes to verbally describe the detail. If it takes any longer I generally don't bother. There are exceptions of course. For example I built out the central section of the City State of the Invincible Overlords as a result of a major event occurring while the PCs were there. I did that before the session. With the City Dwarven Forge I had building of a village prepped a handful of time. But again I knew the PCs will be in the locale a while.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 09, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
It's still great to use for Battletech games

Its great for Battletech games.
As for crafting 3d terrain. There are all sorts of ways to go about it. I prefer the more flattened tiles and the 3d comes from the furniture and decorations within. Makes it easier to handle the minis.

I think I may have reached a happy medium by using very large hexes and customizing them.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2226969274&fbclid=IwAR0cjLdPJwO10NKknzl6NMb7buDE3N9XaOMfGs2hr27arZzWsRUXavHAus4


This allows for cut & pasting the ones that repeat while giving enough variation to make each scene unique.
The big hexes lets a map be filled quickly, so that more time is spent using the map than making it.