Quote from: deadDMwalking;578928In Shadow Run, we've avoided Riggers and Deckers.  

For Riggers, you really do want them with the other players, sharing their dangers.  Losing toys is very different from losing a character.

That's is the heart of the problem. Add to this that remotely rigged drones could replace many of the archtype characters up front and those 'toys' start to dominate the game.

Quote from: silva;579119How about electronics/anti-rigger defenses ? Electronic Jammers and scanners and scramblers ? And if you have an electronical scrambling field in place for trying to keep invading drones out, could it compromise your own security drone-network ?

The game includes this 'solution', but it's either like the other security you mentioned (i.e. a defense that is *meant* to be overcomed by the players), or so rock solid that it makes remote rigging impossible.

Quote from: daniel_ream;578774Nuyen allowance for Tech was cut by a factor of 5 (IIRC). The notion that riggers are poncing around Seattle with a small army of military vehicles without anybody noticing or doing anything about it is asinine, and cutting the amount of gear you get to keep consistently addresses that.

This is a workable solution for what I would call a low level campaign (i.e. low resources- both on the runners side of things, and on their target's).

Not so workable for a Prime Runner campaign, or the type of non-standard re-imagined Shadowrun campaign that I run where the runners aren't crooks out for their own self-interest, but are the actual heroes of the setting in a world where criminality has become the norm.

Additionally, Shadowrun is basically a setting with nearly unlimited toys. It would be a shame to remove them from everyone just because riggers unbalance things.

Perhaps including a mechanism where enemy riggers could potentially "hack" a player's drones and turn them against the team would cut down on drone usage and tone down at least that aspect of the problem. In the Shadowrun games I've played/run car chases have not been a big problem, but I can see where drones could be. We have usually played more "low-level", or "street level" games, so drones have been less of an issue, but I can see how they could be abused.

I never liked Riggers.

RPGPundit

I played several riggers in SR2, and it was smooth and fun, but something went horribly wrong with their rules in SR3 and SR4.

Rigger is such a broad concept base on what they do, and the overlap with hacker is so much that they're really a subset of hacker than their own class.

Signal blocking and counterhacks are the dangers of any hacker or rigger.


Here's how I handle riggers,
First, the books specify the action types for commanding drones and giving orders. Shouting is a free action and you only get one per pass and it better be something short. Running is also a free action. So is taking cover. So be careful burning that one.

Second, even autonomous drones cant account for everything that happens. Drones are not people. They wont automatically engage targets or defend locales without orders, even standing orders.

I require all drone pilots to have a list of basic commands and what they specifically mean as well as any standing orders in place.

Eg
Attack enemies: engage any target I am firing on or who is firing on me.

They can get as complex as they want because when it all goes sideways every rigger discovers he wasnt specific or prepared enough. That's when they jump in or go remote.

Now the dicepool for remote, jumped in, and autonomous all require different dice pools, skills, and software, so you cant do it all. Even ordering three drones to retreat to cover might take a whole pass.

Hey, maybe your drones do it all though? Wont that be expensive if three enemy spiders team up to hack them? Or if the thing bugs up and selects the wrong cover against unexpected missile fire? Did your spy drone scoot out of signal range? Run across an unexpected signal blocker? Signal blockers dont work against friendlies. They're programmable. Now that spybot belongs to the enemy. Hope you're good at scrubbing your datatrail. If that thing saw your face, this job is over. But your signal is trackable as soon as that thing reenters signal range. Say what is the law on a corp sniper firing into a seattle street to stop a determined hack? Want to bet your face on that?

Being a DM is about being creatively evil. Being a Shadowrun GM is the pinnacle of same.


Our issue is always glass cannon riggers. In a pinch they use them as bullet shields and then demand recompense from the party. Like I dont got bills to pay.

I played a Rigger in Shadowrun and actually drove the car manually unless unless I was in a combat zone. Which was actually fairly often as I ran a highway rescue and tow service when not playing backup for an elven team.

I used two sorts of drones. Scouts to map out an area quietly and then a backup and decoy drone that went in with teams first while I followed at a safe distance till the drones went down or needed repair. Once the drones were out of it I waded in with a laser rifle Id put alot into getting good with and upgrading.

Drones were nice. But they didnt survive long against the higher end opposition. But worked great for drawing fire.

One of my best runs involved using a drone I'd turned into a turtle with laters of armour and one big cannon. Said cannon was fake. But I inched it onto a area where we knew the security was well armed and so I rolled it in and kept shouting "Its almost in range! Wait till they get it!" and of course everyone unloads everything into it. Some paniced as it got closer and closer and that huge cannon swinging this way and that way and me yelling "Who do you want me to blast first?" The tram sniper picked off a few and we mopped up the survivors once several ran out of ammo and just surrendered. "DEATH RAY" stenciled on it might have helped with that too...

addendum: The drawback for the rigger is often the costs of getting and repairing the drones. I sank alot into repairs after each mission.

...and now I remember why I have gleichman on ignore.

Quote from: Axdeath;756166Rigger is such a broad concept base on what they do, and the overlap with hacker is so much that they're really a subset of hacker than their own class.

Signal blocking and counterhacks are the dangers of any hacker or rigger.

Shame on a rigger who try to run game on a rigger.

JG