I can hardly make a generalized statement.
In games where character progression is a driving force of the game (like TRoS with it's Spritual Attributes), I play it to the hilt and get into all those nitty littly detail.
Elsewhere, I just hand out flat XP per head and adventure (especially games like Shadowrun where the criteria are highly muddled).
And then, there are also in-between solutions as with CP2020...

Quote from: RPGPundit;288337In my own FtA! game, I don't have XP. I have "Adventures completed", that GMs determine to give players when they feel they've finished an adventure.  PCs go up after gaining a number of "Adventures completed" equal to their current level.

Interestingly, for my upcoming campaign I'm going to change this aspect back from adventures to XPs.
This has however rather to do with the fact that I want to implement the Ale&Wenches-rule from Jeff's Cinder campaign, which works better with big numbers (I don't imagine calculating with 0,217 adventures as very fun, at least less so than calculating with 217XP and thinking of 1.000XP as an adventure in rule terms).

That way I get more interesting things happening in the game, players are encouraged to blow their money for fun stuff instead of just banking it, players are encouraged to get to the treasure quickly and with least possible trouble rather than goof around the dungeon and bide their time, and I can also accelerate the character progression a bit as I wanted to anyway.

Moreover, it solves one of FtA!s lesser quirks: That it assumes that adventurers are by default motivated by the search for treasure, but at the same time removes the two main motivators from the original game to do so (XP for gold and/or a very costly market for magical items).

Quote from: flyingmice;288693It is, perhaps, a specialized XP, but giving a character social standing is a side effect. What it really does is give the character authority. When they get Notice, they gain the ability to call their own shots, within parameters. As the Notice goes up, the parameters widen.

O.k. That was my understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

Quote from: flyingmice;288693Unlike XP, Notice is not abstract. Notice is explicitly given in-character, in-game. Your CO says "Good Job!", you get your name mentioned in despatches, you are written up for a medal, etc. You also don't get Notice for things that the CO doesn't know about, and you can get negative Notice for screwing up. One of my players had a character who had a horrendous run of bad luck with the dice, failing every leadership check he tried, and earning buckets of negative notice. He played this up beautifully, becoming bitter and jealous of another PC who succeeded every time he himself failed. Eventually, he challenged the other PC to a duel, tried to cheat, and was killed. It was perfect.

First, the abstractedness of XP is variable just like HP. You can have very applied and in game (mark off skills as you use them, use them X times and they go up a level) to abstracted beyond the ability to apply (You get x XP because you brought the GM a coke). So, I appreciate the clarification but it is still just a form of XP.

As to negative notice, I LOVE the idea of negative experience. I have nearly been strung up several times for implementing it. The argument usually goes along the lines of "How do I forget something" and "Even a bad experience is a learning one". My counter is often "But you can learn bad habits or how to do something incorrectly that actually hampers your other skills". Anyway, let me make it clear Clash, I really love what you did with Notice. An excellent example of your self-balancing systems.  

Quote from: flyingmice;288693Also unlike XP, it is perfectly possible to play these games without caring about Notice. Your character's abilities won't suffer. A competent character who doesn't push for Notice should still advance in his career, with Notice coming as a side-effect of general competence. Several of my players are fine with this - the characters are in no way penalized. Those who burn with ambition to command, OTOH, are going to fling themselves at every opportunity to shine, even though bad luck can set you back or maybe kill you. The choice is the player's.

-clash

But he still gets Notice. Sure, you have defined a path for Notice, what one must do to get it, but in order to gain rank, you will gain Notice right? I could be misreading this.

XP should not be defined as necessary for advancement. You have done a clever thing in breaking out a social mechanism of XP. I tend to lump it. Social rank is not a thing I generally consider important to the system and am more a "Keep it in character" kind of designer. You want to be commander? There are ways. Maybe it is poisoning everyone above your rank...maybe it is to shine as you say...or maybe mutiny...

That said, I think you have a very interesting take on experience with your application of Notice. It has elements of experience but also of meters you see in other games.

Quote from: HinterWelt;288722O.k. That was my understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I know you understood, but anyone reading would probably make a mistake. It's a lot easier to get a good social standing in chargen. With Notice, it's a side effect of your gaining authority.

QuoteFirst, the abstractedness of XP is variable just like HP. You can have very applied and in game (mark off skills as you use them, use them X times and they go up a level) to abstracted beyond the ability to apply (You get x XP because you brought the GM a coke). So, I appreciate the clarification but it is still just a form of XP.

I agree that it's a form of XP, what I was nattering on about is that it's not *just* a form of XP - that there are other aspects as well.

QuoteAs to negative notice, I LOVE the idea of negative experience. I have nearly been strung up several times for implementing it. The argument usually goes along the lines of "How do I forget something" and "Even a bad experience is a learning one". My counter is often "But you can learn bad habits or how to do something incorrectly that actually hampers your other skills". Anyway, let me make it clear Clash, I really love what you did with Notice. An excellent example of your self-balancing systems.

Thanks! Glad you appreciated it!

QuoteBut he still gets Notice. Sure, you have defined a path for Notice, what one must do to get it, but in order to gain rank, you will gain Notice right? I could be misreading this.

No - you are correct. What I was pointing out is that a character doesn't have to be *motivated* by Notice to advance. Just performing normal duties will gain you some Notice, and if you don't screw up too badly or too often, eventually you'll be promoted.

QuoteXP should not be defined as necessary for advancement. You have done a clever thing in breaking out a social mechanism of XP. I tend to lump it. Social rank is not a thing I generally consider important to the system and am more a "Keep it in character" kind of designer. You want to be commander? There are ways. Maybe it is poisoning everyone above your rank...maybe it is to shine as you say...or maybe mutiny...

Yep! There are always ways. Even in a meritocracy. As an example, in the original IHW and Dragons! - and to a lesser extent Aces In Spades - Influence - your family's political clout - is added to your Notice at every rank increase. Since this is a fixed sum, and the Notice needed to advance increases with each step of Rank, this is most effective at lower ranks, but has some effect even at higher ranks. In other words, the well-born and/or well-connected have a leg up on the peons. It is - in effect - another way to advance. Toadying and cutting down your competition are also covered in the book. Since the Notice is given in-character by NPCs, fooling the NPC is a valid means of advancement.

QuoteThat said, I think you have a very interesting take on experience with your application of Notice. It has elements of experience but also of meters you see in other games.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was aiming for.

-clash

I think the different forms of advancement in games is a part of the flavor they provide.

The only time Ive messed with an advancement scheme as written was in McWoD, where I added 1/4 steps as a way to metagame reward players for doing cool stuff in or out of game. I like meatgame rewards, and I like in-game rewards for out of game actions (bringing food to games, buying stuff for the games etc.).

I follow the systems as they are written.  I use story rewards and I don't use metaxp (I don't want people sucking up to me for xp).

In AD&D/D&D games:

showing up: flat 100XP for my DM; 100XP/level in my games
roleplaying: variable (dependent on amount of roleplaying that week), usually uniform award to everyone (though sometimes a bonus for great play)
combat: split XP (if you did anything at all to help out) + full XP for single-handed kills
NWP: 50XP/success
spells: 100XP/spell level (b/c casters have higher level values)
other: occassional mission goals + MVP of the week bonus (as determined by a player vote; 500xp for low-level games; 1000xp for high-level).

Players track their own XP (honor system), saving me work and no one abuses it. My DM gives 1/2 XP to NPCs (eyeballed), but that's too much work IMO. I just level them up once in a while, as I see fit.

In other games I use the native system, but use some of the above elements. I like XP b/c it's the most flexible system I've used. Leveling every other game is a joke IMO. Time-based doesn't work to me b/c one guy could sit on his arse for a month, while another conquers a nation. And who cares if better, more active characters advance faster? Isn't that the point; to get the other players involved and striving to be as good as they can be? Skill-based works too, which is why I use that element, but I like more rewards. Just keep them individually, relatively small and they add up over time.

I've found that giving different people different rewards creates hard feelings and usually results in the same people having the most powerful characters in every game they play together. I just give lump rewards.