Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1100351If you play RAW with the original auto-fire rules a Jucier JA-11 (among others) does 3d6 x10 or x7 for a full clip, depending on which version of full-auto you use. I don't think you need to half MDC under these circumstances, as there are several full-auto energy weapons which dominate the game underneath the heavy MDC weapons.

I usually added multiplier together. So a full burst would be x8 or x11 damage (After the Conversion book came out, we used the lower value) and a crit would be an additional x1, for a total of x9 or x12 damage.
An average dice roll would give 72 damage from a JA-11 full burst. Even after halving the MDC, that wouldn't one-shot a SAMAS. (250 MDC reduced to 125 MDC)
But yes, a GM shouldn't double multipliers!
Also, a full burst requires the character to fire the whole clip, and take (IIRC) two melee actions. It's kind of an alpha strike option that usually leaves the character weaponless until they reload or switch weapons.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100558Even after halving the MDC, that wouldn't one-shot a SAMAS. (250 MDC reduced to 125 MDC) [...]It's kind of an alpha strike option that usually leaves the character weaponless until they reload or switch weapons.

Fortunately everyone on the team comes equipped with full-auto MDC weaponry.
Or worse.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1100567Fortunately everyone on the team comes equipped with full-auto MDC weaponry.
Or worse.

And the Coalition tend to deploy in squads, or larger units.

Just a note for the guy that was asking about Palladium FANTASY. They are talking about RIFTS.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1100681Just a note for the guy that was asking about Palladium FANTASY. They are talking about RIFTS.

We have drifted into RIFTS. Palladium Fantasy doesn't use MDC that I'm aware of.

How is Palladium Fantasy for SDC inflation?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100699We have drifted into RIFTS. Palladium Fantasy doesn't use MDC that I'm aware of.

How is Palladium Fantasy for SDC inflation?

First Edition... ZERO personal SDC. Your Hit Points are Physical Endurance score (with no physical skills to add to it) + 1d6 per level. Armor ranged from AR 12, 20 SDC for the lightest padded armor to AR 17, 140 SDC for full plate.

Second Edition... uses personal SDC and the same physical skills as Rifts with class bonuses for Men-at-Arms, but typically in the 14 (low end for a non-man-at-arms) to 40-ish (high end for a man-at-arms), plus whatever physical skill SDC you piled onto that. The armor was the same as in first edition.

Also worth mentioning is the scaling of attacks per round. In 1E, non-warriors got 1 per round (some spellcasters could cast two spells per round at high level though) and warriors capped out at 2 or 3 per round. In 2E the default of two if unskilled, plus two more than another two or three as you level up from the other systems was in full effect.

The inability to pump your scores with physical skills also meant that using more than just the base hand-to-hand and weapon proficiency bonuses was the norm for hit and damage... Two attacks per round at +2 to hit (vs. the AR's above) and for 1d8+2 damage in 1E is a VERY different scenario than six attacks per round with +6 to hit for 2d6+10 damage in 2E.

An average PC could actually survive pretty well in the first because they'd have about 14 hp at first level and even in the lightest armor, half the attacks either miss or be taken by the 20 SDC of the armor first... and they were only taking 1-2 attacks for an average of 6-7 damage per hit. Medium and heavy armor with the ability to actually parry as a free action was HUGE for Men-at-Arms despite their Hit Points being identical to those of an unarmored wizard.

Indeed. From all I have seen the shift in SDC combined with the shift in attacks in PL2e do seem to skew things differently.

Add to that the overhaul of the spell casting system.

I wanna add that at least 2E is not a game for combat optimization because combat optimization, at least skill-wise, always looks the same - across all later Palladium games: You take the WPs you need and then you take Physical Skills in a fairly typical order of usefulness: first skills you absolutely need (like Prowl, Climbing, Swimming), then Boxing for the extra attack, then (if you have good PP aka Dexterity) any Physical skills that buff PP and finally everything else that adds to strength and gives you extra SDC.
SDC are pretty low by Palladium standards but that's hardly surprising since we're not dealing with superheroes, cyborgs or mutated turtles here.

I STRONGLY recommend playing without psionics though because with psionics, especially the more advanced powers you're entering save or die territory, probably even fairly on. I played in RIFTS an Undead Slayer (an Atlantean with magic tattoos that replicated some magic/psi powers)... he ended killing up one of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse by first paralyzing him (a psi power-equivalent) and then Death Touching him. Hilarious at the time, preposterous in after-thought. Oh yeah, and he was trained in Ninjitsu, of course (hey, it was the 90s, gimme a break).

Without going back to Rifts, Paralysis psi powers (Bio-Manipulation), Hypnotic Suggestion and stuff like that are totally OP powers that are present in Fantasy as well. Even if you don't allow Super Psi powers, the Sensitive Psi powers basically kill all whodunnit scenarios and stuff like that.

Just leave it out of fantasy and you can have a fun game. Just tell your players you don't think it's thematically appropriate and be done with it.

Or maybe 1E? Never played it myself.

I liked 1e's magic system.

No spell memorization.
May cast X number of spells per day.
Any spell counts as a single casting.
Any spell can be learned and cast by a character regardless of their level. (when leveling up there are limits, but there are no mechanical restrictions on being taught between levels)

So a level 1 wizard might only be able to cast a total of 2 spell, but they could be any spells he knows in any combination. This also applies to a level 15 who can cast 23 spells per day.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1100800I liked 1e's magic system.

No spell memorization.
May cast X number of spells per day.
Any spell counts as a single casting.
Any spell can be learned and cast by a character regardless of their level. (when leveling up there are limits, but there are no mechanical restrictions on being taught between levels)

So a level 1 wizard might only be able to cast a total of 2 spell, but they could be any spells he knows in any combination. This also applies to a level 15 who can cast 23 spells per day.

That's the only mod I've done to DCC: changing the magic system to Palladium Fantasy 1st edition! Except the higher the level of spell, the more difficult it is to cast. Because, ya know, spell misfire and corruption and all that are fun.

I like the Palladium Fantasy classes. Longbowman (personal favorite), Merchant, Noble, Peasant, Squire... just some oddballs that make it interesting.

I haven't noticed anyone mention the playable races. Palladium differs from DnD in that basically any race is a playable character. Goblins, Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Faeries, Kobolds (another personal favorite), and like a hundred others as well as the boring dwarves and super-boring elves. There is also the canine races of Wolfen, Coyle, and Kankoran.

Is there a significant difference between 1st ed, and 1st ed revised?  Revised is a little easier/cheaper to find on ebay.

Quote from: Brasidas;1101637Is there a significant difference between 1st ed, and 1st ed revised?  Revised is a little easier/cheaper to find on ebay.

I think the book's organization (i.e. which order you found things in) was changed along with some different artwork, but otherwise the rules are unchanged. You should be A-okay going with Revised 1st Edition.

Quote from: Chris24601;1101651You should be A-okay going with Revised 1st Edition.

Okay, thanks.

I don't think 1e revised (especially the ones with the red dragon on black art) are any different rules-wise from the original 1e.

However, I can't speak to the 1998 and later printings with the bluish pegasus vs. dragon cover. As its Palladium, I would assume all the 1e printings would be 90% identical.

Psioncis especially in Rifts are just too unbalanced imo. With the power category having some really weird powers such as being able to mind control or possess robots and power armor with no good reason given. Yet magic has Negate mechanics which is a joke of an ability.

Quote from: everloss;1101576I like the Palladium Fantasy classes. Longbowman (personal favorite), Merchant, Noble, Peasant, Squire... just some oddballs that make it interesting.

Agreed and seconded. Espcially being able to play a Merchant, Noble, Peasant. PF was a welcome change from D&D

Quote from: everloss;1101576I haven't noticed anyone mention the playable races. Palladium differs from DnD in that basically any race is a playable character. Goblins, Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Faeries, Kobolds (another personal favorite), and like a hundred others as well as the boring dwarves and super-boring elves. There is also the canine races of Wolfen, Coyle, and Kankoran.

Following PB usually lack of balance some of the non-human races are way too powerful imo to be allowed at the table. With good rolls a Troll could start with a 34 PS. Made worse that the more non-standard races above are mainly evil and hated by almost everyone else. What made me laugh was that the Wolfen method of conquering is much more humane than the other fantasy races. They allow the conquered race to keep everything they own, their gods, pretty much everything like it was before `just pay taxes and send able bodied men to join the army. Yet no one wants to join them. As well the setting suffers from the overused trope of "humanity and only humanity is at the top food chain" like too many existing fantasy rpgs.