Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;903774NOBODY did.  This has degenerated into a bunch of people standing around watching Dragoner shit himself repeatedly in public.

Dragoner, when his mouth flatulates.

Gronan, in his second childhood.

... and hey, all I posted was one little sentence, and look at the fools fall all over themselves trying to refute it without one shred of proof. /shrug

It's not like I care though. That's the nice thing about science, it's true whether you believe it or not.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;903775People are always turning history into a pissing contest around here.

Brendan there isn't any pissing contest. There is just this one idiot who insists on making this thread his village.

Madprof's list is pretty bang on. I'd also go ahead and throw in Gies and Gies' Women in the Middle Ages for some good work on gender roles, Holmes' Daily Living in the Twelth Century for a window into the day to day goings on of a city, and White's Medieval Technology and Social Change for a load of information pertaining to the technological developments in agriculture, manufacturing, and the military.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;903775People are always turning history into a pissing contest around here.

Usually happens when the Pundit makes a comment, on it.  And honestly, I'm wondering why.

If it was me, I'll apologize, didn't mean to bring it down to this.

Quote from: dragoner;903779It's not like I care though. That's the nice thing about science, it's true whether you believe it or not.

You think that what you are saying is science?  It has been a while since I saw anyone who was so determined to make a complete ass of himself in public.  If your goal was to convince everyone here that you are the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect, congratulations.  You have succeeded brilliantly at that.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;903775People are always turning history into a pissing contest around here.

Why is that?  I really didn't mean to piss anybody off.  I thought I was helping.

QuoteThat is a wonderful book, but boy can it be a slog to work through the entire thing.

Well, yeah, true.  Braudel is frickin brilliant though.  Perhaps the greatest historian of the 20th century.  I am biased, however, towards the Annales school - if you couldn't tell.  Bloc is nearly as good, and better bedside reading.

Quote from: yosemitemike;903785You think that what you are saying is science?

More just common sense, close enough. Why would I care what idiots think of me again? If they think bad of me, good. I can't think of anything better, that to be reviled by fools. The history books are filled with peasant uprisings, their lives sucked, things became intolerable, they rose up. Only an idiot would dispute that.

Quote from: mightyuncle;903781Madprof's list is pretty bang on. I'd also go ahead and throw in Gies and Gies' Women in the Middle Ages for some good work on gender roles, Holmes' Daily Living in the Twelth Century for a window into the day to day goings on of a city, and White's Medieval Technology and Social Change for a load of information pertaining to the technological developments in agriculture, manufacturing, and the military.

Ooh! Hadn't read Holmes. Thanks!  

Gamers are often good historians.  Hell, there's a shitload of history to be learned in the DBM army lists.

^In my experience, gamers know much more about history than the general public and much less about history than they think they do.  few have enough self-awareness to know how much they don't know.

Quote from: dragoner;903788More just common sense, close enough.

So you know very well it isn't science at all but you said that anyway.  Keep digging.  You'll get out of that hole eventually.

Quote from: Madprofessor;903786Well, yeah, true.  Braudel is frickin brilliant though.  Perhaps the greatest historian of the 20th century.  I am biased, however, towards the Annales school - if you couldn't tell.  Bloc is nearly as good, and better bedside reading.

The early Annales school was quite impressive. Braudel is someone I go back to all the time. I've only read him in translation though.

No, science is close to common sense, why it's so little understood.

Quote from: yosemitemike;903790Keep digging.  You'll get out of that hole eventually.

Yeah, but by the time dragoner digs his way out he will be on the other side of the world. Which from the Chicago Suburbs would put him in the Indian Ocean halfway between Western Australia and the island of Port-aux-Francais.

Quote from: jeff37923;903778Gronan, when he screeches "Get off my lawn!" instead of writing that book he has been saying he will write for three years now but never has. Then he tops it off with an overused Star Trek meme to show that he is still hip and relevant instead of just being an old geezer.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;903795Shaka, when the walls fell.

I see what you did there.

That is one of my three favorite episodes in that series.

Quote from: dragoner;903793No, science is close to common sense, why it's so little understood.

So, I shouldn't do this, especially after all the shit you called me and others, but...

You have had one decent argument that came through in one sentence which I assume you are referring to as "science" and/or "common sense" (because nobody understands science or common sense but you).  That argument is that inequality causes resentment - therefore peasant revolts were constant. From a scientific perspective, this is a good hypothesis. However, you are trying to create a logical argument based on your view of human nature, informed by the modern world in which you live, and applying it to past societies. This is a classic anachronism.  Your "science" or logic  would (possibly) be sound if the evidence supported the conclusion.  It does not.  

Scientists and people with common sense do not simply ignore the evidence.  You can't make up history based on your preconceived notions of human nature and call it science.

Now, why I am trying to explain this to you I have no idea, except that I have a little bit of faith in the human species to accept evidence and logic, even if it is contrary to their beliefs, and then respond with a little civility and humility (as opposed to a raging fountain of vomit).

I don't have anything against you, dude. You're just wrong about a trivial reality, no big deal.  The problem is you're either too prideful or too stupid to admit it.