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How can we run more interesting, 'realistic' aristocrats?

Started by Shipyard Locked, May 20, 2016, 05:15:36 PM

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daniel_ream

#315
June 23, 2016, 12:43:08 AM
Quote from: James Gillen;904559Ah yes, The Lion in Winter.  Sort of like Game of Thrones, but more cynical.

It's a must view for anyone running an Amber campaign.
D&D is becoming Self-Referential.  It is no longer Setting Referential, where it takes references outside of itself. It is becoming like Ouroboros in its self-gleaning for tropes, no longer attached, let alone needing outside context.
~ Opaopajr

Opaopajr

#316
June 23, 2016, 06:55:38 AM
Quote from: daniel_ream;904454Looking at the original OP, I'm reminded of that quote "The past is a foreign country.  They do things differently there."  There's been quite a bit of railing on the board of late about fantasy settings that embody 21st century middle class values, but anyone involved in making historical fiction will tell you that you cannot make accurate historical fiction, even if you know what accurate is.  The mores, thought processes and unconscious assumptions change so much just from, say, the early 20th century to now that it would be impossible to make a bit of fiction that didn't embody the zeitgeist of the era it was written, rather than when it was set.

So I don't think that making aristocrats more "realistic" or "historically accurate" is terribly useful, because the players aren't going to be either of those things in their reactions to the game world around them.  I think a more useful approach is to take a more metaphorical approach to things.  If the players are interacting with an aristoi, what is it that you want that aristoi to say about aristocracy in general?  About the relationships between the classes?  The morality (good or bad) of that power structure?

Just for an obvious example, compare the way King Richard and Prince John are depicted in The Adventures of Robin Hood and The Lion in Winter.  Same people, but very different views of kingship and aristocracy.

That was profound, measured, and collegiate... and therefore unusable for the frothing storm at hand. So shame on you. And further, I invoke the jargon "individuals within a spectrum," so as to mollify your initial presumption of unreachable veracity. Pish posh.

The slinging of shit may recommence! /adjusts my voluminous folds of lacy ruffles :cool:
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Gronan of Simmerya

#317
June 23, 2016, 11:03:56 AM
Quote from: daniel_ream;904454So I don't think that making aristocrats more "realistic" or "historically accurate" is terribly useful, because the players aren't going to be either of those things in their reactions to the game world around them.  I think a more useful approach is to take a more metaphorical approach to things.  If the players are interacting with an aristoi, what is it that you want that aristoi to say about aristocracy in general?  About the relationships between the classes?  The morality (good or bad) of that power structure?

Seems like way overthinking to me.

Is this aristo a nice guy, an arrogant prick, a rude boor, a rabid tyrant, or an average guy?  That's much more useful to my game.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

crkrueger

#318
June 24, 2016, 08:49:06 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;904794Seems like way overthinking to me.

Is this aristo a nice guy, an arrogant prick, a rude boor, a rabid tyrant, or an average guy?  That's much more useful to my game.

Heh.
Table 1. Roll Once
1-2 Nice Guy
3-4 Average Guy
5-6 Fucktard

Table 2. Roll as desired
1. Arrogant Prick
2. Rude Boor
3. Rabid Tyrant
4. Machiavellian Schemer
5. Noble Ruler
6. Iron-Fisted Warlord
7. Incompetent Ruler
8. Harmless Academic
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Gronan of Simmerya

#319
June 24, 2016, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;904967Heh.
Table 1. Roll Once
1-2 Nice Guy
3-4 Average Guy
5-6 Fucktard

Table 2. Roll as desired
1. Arrogant Prick
2. Rude Boor
3. Rabid Tyrant
4. Machiavellian Schemer
5. Noble Ruler
6. Iron-Fisted Warlord
7. Incompetent Ruler
8. Harmless Academic

Ding!  Winner!  I'ma steal that.

By the bye, ladies and germs, this is very reminiscent of the system Tony Bath used to determine characteristics in his Hyborian Age campaign circa 1970.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Bren

#320
June 24, 2016, 03:00:12 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;904967Table 2. Roll as desired
1. Arrogant Prick
2. Rude Boor
3. Rabid Tyrant
4. Machiavellian Schemer
5. Noble Ruler
6. Iron-Fisted Warlord
7. Incompetent Ruler
8. Harmless Academic
I like Table 2, though I have more D20s than D8s laying about so I think I'll add at least two more:

9. Satyromaniac/Nymphomaniac
10. Obsessed Collector

(10. could overlap the Harmless Academic, but a fair number of museums originated as some medieval or early modern ruler’s collection of whatever artifacts he was obsessed about, plus some ruler sending a party to collect a unicorn horn, dragons tooth, live elephant, rare ivory pipe, elaborate mechanical clock, or what have you is a good hook for an adventure).
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

Gronan of Simmerya

#321
June 24, 2016, 07:52:46 PM
Whereas the Harmless Academic sends them after rare (and fragile!) books.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Shemek hiTankolel

#322
June 24, 2016, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905103Whereas the Harmless Academic sends them after rare (and fragile!) books.

Fragile! They must be written in Italian.

Shemek
Don\'t part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Shemek hiTankolel

#323
June 24, 2016, 08:24:27 PM
Quote from: daniel_ream;904730It's a must view for anyone running an Amber campaign.

I totally agree.The first time I saw the LiW I was immediately reminded of Amber. Peter O'Toole would have made a great Oberron/Ganelon.  It is a fantastic film, and unless I am mistaken it was a very young Sir Anthony Hopkins'  first cinematic role. Some great lines and acting in it. I've used elements of the film in my games for years.

Shemek
Don\'t part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Dumpire

#324
June 24, 2016, 09:26:58 PM
Fantastic film. For another dose of Peter O'Toole as an eloquent, bellicose noble, watch the miniseries Masada.

Gronan of Simmerya

#325
June 24, 2016, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;905111Fragile! They must be written in Italian.

Shemek

Maybe it's a bowling alley!
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Gronan of Simmerya

#326
June 24, 2016, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Dumpire;905124Fantastic film. For another dose of Peter O'Toole as an eloquent, bellicose noble, watch the miniseries Masada.

Or Becket, for another look  at Henry II.

Or for that matter, Robert Shaw as Henry VIII in "A Man for All Seasons."  Mercurial!  ALWAYS a wonderful quality to have in a monarch.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Bren

#327
June 24, 2016, 11:42:42 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905137Mercurial!  ALWAYS a wonderful quality to have in a monarch.
So that would be...

11. Mercurial

or to keep to the established style,

11. Fickle and Mercurial
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

Elfdart

#328
June 27, 2016, 09:01:26 PM
Better still, you could watch this period flick with Peter O'Toole, Richard Burton and Richard Harris:

[video=youtube;L2xWQr4VaUA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2xWQr4VaUA[/youtube]
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can\'t understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We\'re not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck\'s sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron\'s review of The Phantom Menace

Matt

#329
June 27, 2016, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Elfdart;905583Better still, you could watch this period flick with Peter O'Toole, Richard Burton and Richard Harris:

[video=youtube;L2xWQr4VaUA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2xWQr4VaUA[/youtube]

SCTV...the best sketch comedy for my money. Next post Murder in the Cathedral with Buzz Aldrin.
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