Quote from: estar;335629Because that Zach's vision of Friars. If you want to know more then ask him why friars have spells. Possibilities could be "Because I think it cool", "well it's because of how I look at D&D settings." or something else.

In other words, what a DM wants to achieve, and the way the mechanics emulate the Campaign feel the DM wants out of the game, trumps mechanical balance. Do I get it right?

Quote from: Benoist;335632In other words, what a DM wants to achieve, and the way the mechanics emulate the Campaign feel the DM wants out of the game, trumps mechanical balance. Do I get it right?

Yup.

Sure and depending on what are trying to do it may be important that your choices for roleplaying elements and mechanics are plausible given the premises of your setting. By asking yourself this you can kept absurd differences in power levels in check when you are designing things.

I like it, would I play this rather than a cleric? Yes. d20 and now 4e has munchkinized the game expectations to the point where its apparently verboten to play a class just for fun.

Quote from: Benoist;335632In other words, what a DM wants to achieve, and the way the mechanics emulate the Campaign feel the DM wants out of the game, trumps mechanical balance. Do I get it right?

yes.  You have it.
Especially if it facilitates the GMs setting and the pc's roleplaying.

Looks pretty good, but since the XPT is  only slightly better than a C&C cleric, and the access to low-level spells isn't actually better... (My C&C box says up to 5 Lv 0 spells at 10th, before bonuses...)

I'd suggest reworking the spell table a touch.

_Lv _ HD _BtH ____ XPT _ 0 _ 1 _ 2 _ 3
_ 1 _ D8 _ +1 ______ 0 _ 2 _ - _ - _ -
_ 2 _ D8 _ +1 ___ 1601 _ 3 _ 1 _ - _ -
_ 3 _ D8 _ +2 ___ 3350 _ 3 _ 2 _ - _ -
_ 4 _ D8 _ +2 ___ 7601 _ 4 _ 2 _ 1 _ -
_ 5 _ D8 _ +3 __ 15001 _ 4 _ 3 _ 1 _ -
_ 6 _ D8 _ +3 __ 30001 _ 5 _ 3 _ 2 _ -
_ 7 _ D8 _ +4 __ 60001 _ 5 _ 4 _ 3 _ 1
_ 8 _ D8 _ +4 _ 120001 _ 6 _ 4 _ 4 _ 1
_ 9 _ D8 _ +5 _ 240001 _ 6 _ 5 _ 4 _ 2
_10 _ D8 _ +5 _ 450001 _ 7 _ 5 _ 4 _ 2
_11 _ +3 _ +6 _ 625001 _ 7 _ 6 _ 5 _ 2
_12 _ +3 _ +6 _ 800001 _ 8 _ 6 _ 5 _ 3


Really push those low level spells, make the type a bit more useful.

Love the concept.

I also really like it; the improvised weapon ability is a really neat addition, and I can definitely see the Friar being a really interesting class to play in most settings.

Any chance we'll see more C&C classes out of you?

Quote from: LeSquide;335693I also really like it; the improvised weapon ability is a really neat addition, and I can definitely see the Friar being a really interesting class to play in most settings.

Any chance we'll see more C&C classes out of you?

Sure!  I actually have drafts of a few more here:

http://sites.google.com/site/zacksrpgstuff/files


And no, I'm not really worried about any of them being a lower power level than one of their default cousins.  Just not my thing, I guess.

I am considering pulling the spell list and giving him just lay on hands and a few 0-levels.  That should be good enough.  I'll also be dropping the XP requirements, of course.

Thanks to everyone for the constructive criticism!  I'll likely make a few changes tonight, and then see how he does in play....

Quote from: Zachary The First;335722Thanks to everyone for the constructive criticism!  I'll likely make a few changes tonight, and then see how he does in play....

Excellent! Let us know how it goes!

Here's the possible replacement text for the magic abilities:

   [FONT="]Healing[/FONT][FONT="]:  Twice a day at first level, the friar may heal a character for 1d8 HP.  This is a mix of divine magic and practical medical knowledge.  The friar may add one healing attempt per day at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.  At level 6, the healing increases to 2d8 daily; at 10th level, 2d10.[/FONT]
  [FONT="] [/FONT]
  [FONT="]Magic:[/FONT][FONT="]  Only minor magics are the Friar's to command, and they mainly follow those of the Cleric.  However, even minor magics can have a tremendous affect on the lives of everyday people.  The Friar begins at first level with 3 0-level spells from the Cleric list.  They may learn 1 additional 0-level spell from the Cleric lists at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12.  At levels 4, 8, and 12, they may learn 1 1st-level Cleric spell. They do not have to memorize a spell to cast it, but may cast spontaneously from their strong belief and practical strength.[/FONT]

Quote from: Zachary The First;335729Here's the possible replacement text for the magic abilities:

   [FONT="]Healing[/FONT][FONT="]:  Twice a day at first level, the friar may heal a character for 1d8 HP.  This is a mix of divine magic and practical medical knowledge.  The friar may add one healing attempt per day at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.  At level 6, the healing increases to 2d8 daily; at 10th level, 2d10.[/FONT]
  [FONT="] [/FONT]
  [FONT="]Magic:[/FONT][FONT="]  Only minor magics are the Friar's to command, and they mainly follow those of the Cleric.  However, even minor magics can have a tremendous affect on the lives of everyday people.  The Friar begins at first level with 3 0-level spells from the Cleric list.  They may learn 1 additional 0-level spell from the Cleric lists at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12.  At levels 4, 8, and 12, they may learn 1 1st-level Cleric spell. They do not have to memorize a spell to cast it, but may cast spontaneously from their strong belief and practical strength.[/FONT]

Yeah!

Quote from: aramis;335816Yeah!

Thanks!  I think this'll work much better.  I only hope someone picks to play one..

I dealt with friars a bit differently in my Netbook of Classes here:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/files/pdf/netbookofclasses.pdf

I made them into a kind of rogue-cleric cross.

Simon W

Simon, I didn't know that was yours!  Thanks for the reminder/link!