Developing my fantasy d20, roll high to succeed, homebrew system.  Currently using 3d6 or a variant (like 4d6 drop lowest) to determine each of 7 ability scores.

Thinking about just going straight to rolling for modifiers in character generation for attribute scores.  For example instead of
Strength 15, Dexterity 11, Intelligence 9 this would read: Strength +2, Dexterity 0, Intelligence -1, etc.

Attributes for first level characters will be close (or slightly better) to 3d6 bell curve distribution.

1. Mostly interested in a way to generate this randomly that would be simpler than rolling 3d6 and then just looking on a chart to write the mod.  I can come up with ways to do this, but they are really clunky.  Am I missing something?  Could you point to another game that does this and describe how it generates just modifiers?

2.  See any drawbacks to this if my system doesn't use the actual ability score for anything anyway?

Thanks.

Slightly off topic but im curious. What's your 7th ability score?

Dunno about "simpler," but Rolemaster has a rules option for "bonuses only stat generation." (I should probably add that I'm talking about an older version. I guess RM2 from the '80s -- not sure if RM1 had the same option or not.)

Slambo, 7th score is Luck.

1d6 minus 1d6.  The results don't exactly match up with D&D, but it's a very simple way to get an appropriate distribution.

Mishihari, that's good thinking.  It's got great potential.  Will run the numbers. First thing to fix, though is rolling a 6 and a 1. That gives 5, which is too high.

Quote from: Vic99 on January 01, 2022, 09:25:12 AM
Mishihari, that's good thinking.  It's got great potential.  Will run the numbers. First thing to fix, though is rolling a 6 and a 1. That gives 5, which is too high.

d4 minus d4 then.  What range do you want?

Quote from: Vic99 on January 01, 2022, 09:25:12 AM
Mishihari, that's good thinking.  It's got great potential.  Will run the numbers. First thing to fix, though is rolling a 6 and a 1. That gives 5, which is too high.

Why not 3d6, reading each "6" as a +1 and each "1" as -1? "2" to "5" are zero. This gives a distribution from -3 to +3, heavily centered in 0, and you are rolling 3d6, which is neat.

I've been using modifiers-only for my OD&D game for several years. It has multiple advantages over the traditional system. Firstly, because 0 is the default value for abilities, you only need to write down any exceptional stats. So an NPC can be written as "Sir Knightguy Str+1, Con +2, Cha -1". This makes it easy to add ability score modifiers to boss monsters and such just by adding something like "Str +2" to their stats. Thus creating variety amongst otherwise basic monsters. And because NPC can have modifiers, you can easily switch NPCs to PCs and back again.

Also, since you are only writing down the exceptional values, you can create new ability scores on the fly or have certain races have a different list of ability scores. For example, IMC Elves have a Luck stat whereas other races do not.

To generate ability scores, I assign a number to each stat: Str is 1, Con is 2, Dex is 3, etc. First I roll four d6 and add 1 to the ability modifier to the corresponding ability.  Then I roll two d6 and subtract one to each of those abilities. This way each character is randomized but will always end up with an overall +2 modifier.

For example, if I roll 1, 2, 2, 4 that's Str +1, Dex +2, Wis +1 then I roll 2, 3 that's Dex =1, Con -1. So the character ends up with Str +1, Dex +1, Con -1, Wis +1.

[I realize that my method assumes you only have six ability scores]

Can the underlying abilities change with play?  What distribution patterns are you looking for?

I don't care for games that have entirely decomposed stats into modifiers as it becomes too linear, but whatever floats your boat.

I'm a fan of idiosyncratic systems of such things, if only because it is fun. I don't know how the probabilities would look, but the first thing that came to mind was something like this (assuming you want a range of -4 to +4).

0 unless two or three of a kind.
Two of a kind (1s, 2s, 3s): -1
Two of a kind (4s, 5s, 6s): +1
Three of a kind (1s): -4
Three of a kind (2s): -3
Three of a kind (3s): -2
Three of a kind (4s): +2
Three of a kind (5s): +3
Three of a kind (6s): +4

Again, I don't know the probabilities off hand, but it would make rolling ability scores kind of fun - a micro-game unto itself.

Quote from: Marcus Viciosus on January 01, 2022, 12:11:26 PM

Quote from: Vic99 on January 01, 2022, 09:25:12 AM
Mishihari, that's good thinking.  It's got great potential.  Will run the numbers. First thing to fix, though is rolling a 6 and a 1. That gives 5, which is too high.

Why not 3d6, reading each "6" as a +1 and each "1" as -1? "2" to "5" are zero. This gives a distribution from -3 to +3, heavily centered in 0, and you are rolling 3d6, which is neat.

Very good thinking.  I will experiment with this, myself.

Quote from: Vic99 on December 31, 2021, 11:44:27 PM
Developing my fantasy d20, roll high to succeed, homebrew system.  Currently using 3d6 or a variant (like 4d6 drop lowest) to determine each of 7 ability scores.

Thinking about just going straight to rolling for modifiers in character generation for attribute scores.  For example instead of
Strength 15, Dexterity 11, Intelligence 9 this would read: Strength +2, Dexterity 0, Intelligence -1, etc.

1. Mostly interested in a way to generate this randomly that would be simpler than rolling 3d6 and then just looking on a chart to write the mod. 

Nothing wrong with 4d6 drop the lowest.

Its straight forward, and keeps the players happy as no one is likely to get an outright bad stat block.

Nothing wrong with using a chart as well.

Simple, straightforward, and the players can see the relation between their roll and the mod.

This keeps it relatable to D&D players moving over to your system. It is a good thing to give them touchstones to what they already know.

Quote from: Vic99 on December 31, 2021, 11:44:27 PM
2.  See any drawbacks to this if my system doesn't use the actual ability score for anything anyway?

Zero Drawbacks.

IMHO D&D should have gone there already.

Plus the benefits hedgehobbit's post highlights.

There is no need for full stat blocks for monsters.

Quote from: Marcus Viciosus on January 01, 2022, 12:11:26 PM

Quote from: Vic99 on January 01, 2022, 09:25:12 AM
Mishihari, that's good thinking.  It's got great potential.  Will run the numbers. First thing to fix, though is rolling a 6 and a 1. That gives 5, which is too high.

Why not 3d6, reading each "6" as a +1 and each "1" as -1? "2" to "5" are zero. This gives a distribution from -3 to +3, heavily centered in 0, and you are rolling 3d6, which is neat.

I rolled 18 sets of ability scores, straight down the line; and then I selected 5 characters, for a level 1 adventuring party. 

Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha

Cleric.          -1, +0, +2, +1, +1, +0
Fighter.       +2, +2, +1, +0, +0, -1
Fighter.       +2, +1, +1, +1, -1, -1
Magic User +1, +0, +1, +2, +1, +1
Thief.           +0, +2, +0, +0, +0, +2

None of the 18 sets yielded a +2 in Wisdom. 
These are the best 5 of 18 sets, in my opinion.

In a d20 game, one thing you miss out on when skipping over ability scores is a nicely scaled "roll-under on a d20" mechanic. Whether that's a "drawback" or not is your call 

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 01, 2022, 12:13:00 PM
I've been using modifiers-only for my OD&D game for several years. It has multiple advantages over the traditional system. Firstly, because 0 is the default value for abilities, you only need to write down any exceptional stats. So an NPC can be written as "Sir Knightguy Str+1, Con +2, Cha -1". This makes it easy to add ability score modifiers to boss monsters and such just by adding something like "Str +2" to their stats. Thus creating variety amongst otherwise basic monsters. And because NPC can have modifiers, you can easily switch NPCs to PCs and back again.

Also, since you are only writing down the exceptional values, you can create new ability scores on the fly or have certain races have a different list of ability scores. For example, IMC Elves have a Luck stat whereas other races do not.

To generate ability scores, I assign a number to each stat: Str is 1, Con is 2, Dex is 3, etc. First I roll four d6 and add 1 to the ability modifier to the corresponding ability.  Then I roll two d6 and subtract one to each of those abilities. This way each character is randomized but will always end up with an overall +2 modifier.

For example, if I roll 1, 2, 2, 4 that's Str +1, Dex +2, Wis +1 then I roll 2, 3 that's Dex =1, Con -1. So the character ends up with Str +1, Dex +1, Con -1, Wis +1.

[I realize that my method assumes you only have six ability scores]

+1, I use the same method for all the same reasons, and love it. +3d4 - 1d4 for me, since I use 4 ability scores, and smaller numbers all around.