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Hobgoblins (Pet Peeve)

Started by TristramEvans, February 27, 2015, 01:45:35 AM

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trechriron

#30
February 27, 2015, 12:40:27 PM
Quote from: tuypo1;818106besides i thought it was just 3.5 you hated

There is a quote button on the bottom of every post. You click it and then the person you are responding to is easy to figure out. If you want to respond to many people in the thread, you can use the "multiquote" button. It highlights and "sticks", you then select as many posts as you want before you respond.

Are you really so fucking lazy that you cannot capitalize your words, use any punctuation or quote people?
Trentin C Bergeron (trechriron)
Bard, Creative & RPG Enthusiast
----------------------------------------------------------------------
D.O.N.G. Black-Belt (Thanks tenbones!)

TristramEvans

#31
February 27, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;818104Well, Hob is an old folk word for the Devil, so added to goblin denotes a 'devilish' goblin. In said folklore, i think that 'devilish' nature is related to wicked pranks rather than outright hostility, but taken in the d&d canon, being a devilish goblin has added meaning dunnit?

hob was an old nickname for Robert. the devil was called "hobnob" or "Bob with horns"

One Horse Town

#32
February 27, 2015, 12:53:43 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;818162hob was an old nickname for Robert. the devil was called "hobnob" or "Bob with horns"

Not where i'm from, sunshine.

AmazingOnionMan

#33
February 27, 2015, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;818165Not where i'm from, sunshine.

Hob-horse town!

TristramEvans

#34
February 27, 2015, 01:08:33 PM
Actually, digging through my etymological dictionary, looks like "hob" originally had the meaning of "rustic". Which makes quite a bit of sense. Although its use as the nickname for Robert is mentioned.

crkrueger

#35
February 27, 2015, 01:14:30 PM
Quote from: trechriron;818155Are you really so fucking lazy that you cannot capitalize your words, use any punctuation or quote people?

It's an affectation.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Doctor Jest

#36
February 27, 2015, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;818054Its a beneficial faerie rther than one out to screw you.

Not always, Robin Goodfellow was often antagonistic.

Also "hob" is just a short form for the name Robin or Robert. So it's the Goblin named Robin.

TristramEvans

#37
February 27, 2015, 01:31:07 PM
Quote from: Doctor Jest;818173Not always, Robin Goodfellow was often antagonistic.


Harmless pranks are pretty low on the antagonism scale when it comes to faeries though. That's still "Seelie Court" stuff.

Doctor Jest

#38
February 27, 2015, 01:46:45 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;818174Harmless pranks are pretty low on the antagonism scale when it comes to faeries though. That's still "Seelie Court" stuff.

Harmless pranks in some stories. Not so much in others. It's in the latter stories when he became conflated with Puck that he became more light hearted.

Bren

#39
February 27, 2015, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;818171It's an affectation.
yEs.It,Is;It:Is?AlSo.KiNd,Of;AnNoYiNg:
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
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TristramEvans

#40
February 27, 2015, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: Doctor Jest;818175Harmless pranks in some stories. Not so much in others. It's in the latter stories when he became conflated with Puck that he became more light hearted.

I cant find reference to him calling himself a hobgoblin prior to Shakespeare. Puck was, I suspect, just an Anglicized version of Pooka.

jhkim

#41
February 27, 2015, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: Necrozius;818118Don't get me started on "Gorgons" being bull monsters now, and Medusa being a noun for all Gorgons instead of the specific name of an individual (see also: Pegasus vs. Flying Horse).

This sort of thing happened in french: Renard was the name of a specific animal (called goupil). Now it's the name for the entire species.

But ah well, whatever. Language evolves etc... I don't really care THAT much, it's just a minor pet peeve of mine.
I would say that deliberate re-inventing is fine. Tolkien certainly knew what he was doing when he intentionally re-invented elves from being little people who fixed shoes and such into tall, proud immortals. Likewise his re-inventing goblins.

However, ignorance is just annoying. I don't think there is anything behind gorgons as bull-monsters, for example, or kobolds as mini-lizard-men.

Also, personally I find the near-universal devotion to Tolkien within fantasy gaming annoying. Can't people use other fantasy traditions?

Doctor Jest

#42
February 27, 2015, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;818177I cant find reference to him calling himself a hobgoblin prior to Shakespeare. Puck was, I suspect, just an Anglicized version of Pooka.

The first recorded use of the word "hobgoblin" is in the 1520s to describe the folklore character Robin Goodfellow. He's not only A hobgoblin, he's THE hobgoblin. Other characters were also described as hobgoblins after.

See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hobgoblin

TristramEvans

#43
February 27, 2015, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Doctor Jest;818179The first recorded use of the word "hobgoblin" is in the 1520s to describe the folklore character Robin Goodfellow. He's not only A hobgoblin, he's THE hobgoblin. Other characters were also described as hobgoblins after.

See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hobgoblin

That entry is not accurate. I'm not at home to access my notes, but this is an area Ive done a lot of research on.

Doctor Jest

#44
February 27, 2015, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;818181That entry is not accurate. I'm not at home to access my notes, but this is an area Ive done a lot of research on.

http://www.memidex.com/hobgoblin#etymology

Every etymological source for the word puts it at the 16th century as a nickname for Robin Goodfellow. I can't find a single other source, credible or otherwise, that shows an alternate etymology. Can't wait to see your notes.
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