Quote from: Sacrosanct;779663Probably just trying to get back to D&D's roots.  Most of the modules that came out in the late 70s early 80s were tourney modules and exactly the same sort of "railroad" adventures that is being discussed here.

Are you really going to compare this dictated string of scenes to something like Ghost Tower of Inverness which does feature a railroaded setup-the PC's being in trouble and kind of forced to undertake the adventure?

Not   Even  Close.  

In Ghost Tower, once the NPC mouthpiece finishes giving each PC a tongue lashing, and provides funds to equip themselves, they begin at the keep ruins and proceed from there as they see fit.

Even in the infamous slavelords series the only adventure with a real railroad is the end of A3 leading to the beginning of A4. It IS a pretty bad one but the modules don't micromanage PC activities in each module.

Quote from: Larsdangly;779662Who thought this was a good idea?

It seems to me it is being sold as somewhat as a transition product. Its starts of linear and becomes more and more open, until part two (The Rise of Tiamat) becomes pretty much a sandbox.

Now weather or not they have pulled that off remains to be seen, but I can see why they would want to start with the 'Adventure Path' format, because they seem to be really popular right now.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779668Are you really going to compare this dictated string of scenes to something like Ghost Tower of Inverness which does feature a railroaded setup-the PC's being in trouble and kind of forced to undertake the adventure?

Not   Even  Close.  

.

Yep, and I just did.  I think you're letting your TSR colored glasses bias you a bit here.  That, or you haven't actually read HotDQ.  For one, I don't think HotDQ is as scripted as you think it is.  They flat out tell you that you can do any of the first episode's task in any order you want.  They also tell you you how to handle various options the PCs may take in episode 2, etc.

Each episode is no different than any of those modules, just perhaps on a smaller scale.  I.e., you couldn't have the players sit down to play A1 and they all decided to go right to A4.  They had to follow the chain of scripts...er...log books in a linear fashion.  Same with G1-G3, and numerous others.

Now, for most of us who played those modules at home, we adapted them and made them more sandboxy than how they would be played in a tournament.  But you can do the same thing with HotDQ.  Just skip the duel if you want.  But there is really little difference in how HotDC and A1-A4 were designed: to be played in an organized play with a specific style of play encouraged that was not sandbox.  In A1-A4's case, you didn't get points by going off the script for example.

Quote from: CRKrueger;779658Intrusive. FR or any other setting published will be very intrusive because I really doubt they're gonna drop the "Everything is Core" bullshit.  Thus, you're going to have to basically houserule the system as if it were a toolkit like GURPS to have anything approaching a sane setting.  Of course, you've been doing that since WotC took over anyway.

4E actually set most of its published adventures in the Nentir Vale, a generic small-scale locale that anyone could pop into their own campaign. No book or CRPG tie-ins whatsoever. I was hoping they might do the same with 5E, but I'm losing confidence.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;779663Probably just trying to get back to D&D's roots.  Most of the modules that came out in the late 70s early 80s were tourney modules and exactly the same sort of "railroad" adventures that is being discussed here.

Simply not true. The most railroady of TSR era tournament modules, the A series - would be considered a sandbox by modern standards. Besides the forced capture in A3, there are no other scripted scenes or encounters.

I get the impression HotDQ is something of an homage to B10 Night's Dark Terror. But that mega-adventure isn't nearly as scripted. Yes, there's an attack on a fort at the beginning of the adventure. But there isn't any scripted outcome to the battle, or any other scripted scenes.

Quote from: jadrax;779670Now weather or not they have pulled that off remains to be seen, but I can see why they would want to start with the 'Adventure Path' format, because they seem to be really popular right now.

Absolutely. I won't fault them with mimicking the most successful adventure model of recent years. I just hoped they might take a different tack and provide an alternative to Paizo-style adventure paths.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;779675Now, for most of us who played those modules at home, we adapted them and made them more sandboxy than how they would be played in a tournament.  But you can do the same thing with HotDQ.  Just skip the duel if you want.  But there is really little difference in how HotDC and A1-A4 were designed: to be played in an organized play with a specific style of play encouraged that was not sandbox.  In A1-A4's case, you didn't get points by going off the script for example.

There was extra content in the commercial release versions. There were whole parts labeled [ Not for Tournament Use] meaning you could play with just the original tournament content if you wanted.

Can someone tell me what the extra Background in this is - that is if there is one?

For all my bitching, I just picked it up at the store anyway. It is a nice looking book that contains ~10-12 solid nights of gaming. I'm sure I'll run it in a way that doesn't look very much like a story path or whatever it is I'm supposed to call a railroad that I bought into. My natural laziness and general tendency to fail to read all the background text will be my best helpmeets.

Quote from: CRKrueger;778736...sigh...

You didn't make a terrible mistake, the PC's made a terrible mistake thinking they could take on an Adult Dragon without some form of magical protection against it's Breath Weapon.

Yeah death may have introduced a speedbump into the all-important story of the PC's, but that's why god created fast chargen rules, right?  

If some or all of the party got wiped, then surely there must be other worthies out there.

All you did was rob the players of their vengeance and let them know they're playing in Video Game Land now.  

We got this! We're PC's! Attack!

ymmv, etc...

That alone sold me on the book.

After futzing around with mock fights online I finally talked my main offline group to try 5E.

They are walking into Tyranny of Dragons cold.

What's fun is the group.

Human Necromancer (combat caster)

Human Assassin (grapler)

Human War Cleric (Polearm Master)

Tiefling Wild Blood Sorcerer

Ya...gonna be one of those parties.

Any advice for the early part of the adventure?

May the gods help the peasants and innocent bystanders.

Quote from: Mostlyjoe;780374That alone sold me on the book.

After futzing around with mock fights online I finally talked my main offline group to try 5E.

They are walking into Tyranny of Dragons cold.

What's fun is the group.

Human Necromancer (combat caster)

Human Assassin (grapler)

Human War Cleric (Polearm Master)

Tiefling Wild Blood Sorcerer

Ya...gonna be one of those parties.

Any advice for the early part of the adventure?

Get some throat lozenges, you're gonna be talking a lot while the players watch.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;779546If League play means that my participation doesn't matter and the same shit is going to happen no matter what the group does why are we playing again?

Have to agree there. League/RPGA play should not = railroad or overscripting.

But seems the rails are less blatant or few after that first one?

Quote from: Omega;780424Have to agree there. League/RPGA play should not = railroad or overscripting.

But seems the rails are less blatant or few after that first one?

The problem is the way the league is set up, every player has to have the same outcome (relatively) for major plot points as every other group.  Not only story-wise, but XP and treasure wise as well.  That's because PCs need to be interchangeable at tables.  If one group managed to kill the half dragon in the beginning somehow, then joined a different group later on where you encounter him again, you've got a big continuity problem.

That said, I totally understand how that style of play is unappealing to many.  It sure causes me great pause.  I may give it a shot, but I doubt I'll want to keep DMing in the league.  But if other people like it?  More power to them.

When you look at the major questions of a happening: Who, What, Where, When, How, and Why - having a shared experience means some of those things must be the same.

In the original modules, or even tournament adventures, the shared experience was Where, When and for tournaments sometimes Who.  You may have set pre-gens to run or you could use your own characters, but the setup was the same.  You got placed In Media Res in a location or situation and went forward from there.  The What, How and most of the time the Why was up to the players.

This League play has as shared experience Where, When and What.  The initial situation is the same and the main outcome is the same as well.  You use your own characters, so the Who and to some degree Why is up to you.  Any uniqueness comes from the Who and How.

Conversations about the older module would focus on whether you won in the first place, and then how you did it.

Conversations about the newer modules will be focused on the How, we all know we all survived and won, the question is How.

Different conversation, different shared experience, but...with less choice, the experience becomes more socially binding for those that choose to participate...at least in theory.  

It's interactive metaplot on a transmedia scale.  If they can ensure an outcome through League play, this outcome can interact directly with the MMO and novels and so players can engage via wallet into other areas of the metaplot already having participated in one end and everyone who experienced part of it, whether novels, comics, MMO, League, Facebook game, whatever, can be a part of "Tyranny of Dragons" in different ways.

Once ToD is over, then move on to next year's Transmedia Event, etc...

Quote from: CRKrueger;780507It's interactive metaplot on a transmedia scale.  If they can ensure an outcome through League play, this outcome can interact directly with the MMO and novels and so players can engage via wallet into other areas of the metaplot already having participated in one end and everyone who experienced part of it, whether novels, comics, MMO, League, Facebook game, whatever, can be a part of "Tyranny of Dragons" in different ways.

Once ToD is over, then move on to next year's Transmedia Event, etc...

Yeah the feeling is very much one of a world event in WOW. All the players get to participate but the outcome will be predetermined regardless.

Doesn't hold my interest in an MMO and certainly not in tabletop. It is literally taking the game out of gaming. No thanks.