4e D&D is the only version that gave PCs a bunch of hp at 1st level. 5e lets PCs level up from 1st very fast, and makes death harder. In other D&D-based games, PCs are extremely squishy at 1st level and it seems common to give them a boost.

Of my own games currently running, in 5e I don't alter hit points at 1st level, while in my White Star game I want a space opera feel so I increase them significantly by giving PCs 9 hp on their first (d6) hit die, death at -10, and can have 4 hp per subsequent hit die. Looking at my copy of Swords & Wizardry yesterday with an eye to running it soon, I was thinking of running it with max+2 hp at 1st, so Fighters 8+2=10 hp, Clerics 6+2 = 8 hp, M-Us and Thieves at 4+2=6 hp. That seems like enough to make them somewhat robust without greatly altering the feel of play.

Do you ever do this sort of thing, and if so how?

Fantastic Heroes and Witchery has a neat system. Each PC gets their usual hit points as you would expect from an OSR style game based on the class. In addition the player also has a number of "wound hit points" that are based on a racial hit dice, like d8 for elves, dwarves and humans, d6 for halflings and d10 for half orcs. These wound points only take damage once the usual class hit points are reduced to zero and the loss if a wound point means a -1 to the d20 rolls.

At at o wound points you are incapacitated and  -10 wound points you are dead of course.

The upshot of this is 1st level characters don't drop so fast but after their hit points (as opposed to wound points) but do enter into a downward spiral once their class hit points are gone. And since the wound points don't increase (you get the one and that's it) it doesn't significanly "unbalance" play beyond 5th level or so.

I like Dead at 0 HP, Unconscious at 1 HP and I hate the -10 dance. Thus, I give PCs get +10 HP.
AKA, instead of getting the 10 HP under 0, you get them to stay up and kick ass, but when you hit 0, you done be dead.
If the game is cinematic, you can Save vs. Death and remain at 1 HP.

Firstly, I never start PCs at 1st level in any level-based game I run. 3rd is my minimum, and I assume max hit points for first level, if they're rolled.

Your first half of hit points are stress/fatigue/strain, you can go through them without any other impacts, and they heal faster. Your second half are real harm, you start getting penalties to things at less than 50% and less than 25% of your total. 0 is unconscious and into more serious, longer-term effects.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1045319Fantastic Heroes and Witchery has a neat system. Each PC gets their usual hit points as you would expect from an OSR style game based on the class. In addition the player also has a number of "wound hit points" that are based on a racial hit dice, like d8 for elves, dwarves and humans, d6 for halflings and d10 for half orcs. These wound points only take damage once the usual class hit points are reduced to zero and the loss if a wound point means a -1 to the d20 rolls.

At at o wound points you are incapacitated and  -10 wound points you are dead of course.

The upshot of this is 1st level characters don't drop so fast but after their hit points (as opposed to wound points) but do enter into a downward spiral once their class hit points are gone. And since the wound points don't increase (you get the one and that's it) it doesn't significanly "unbalance" play beyond 5th level or so.

While this implementation seems fiddly, the idea of a racial or zero level hit die on top of class hit dice is great! Have to think about this. White Star uses race as class so not so great there, but should work great in games that split them. In 5e would be an extra d8 for Medium and d6 for Small. For most versions of dnd probably a straight d6 is best.

Quote from: S'mon;1045333While this implementation seems fiddly, the idea of a racial or zero level hit die on top of class hit dice is great! Have to think about this. White Star uses race as class so not so great there, but should work great in games that split them. In 5e would be an extra d8 for Medium and d6 for Small. For most versions of dnd probably a straight d6 is best.

Agree on good idea and fiddly implementation.  Using something like that in Basic D&D, I'd just go with racial die for wound points, adjusted by Con modifier.  If you have any damage to your wound points at all, -2 to all d20 rolls.  Might adjust the natural healing rules to make regular hit points come back slightly faster than normal, and the wound points much slower.  Easy to track, gives a little room between hurt and dead, and still no one wants to spend much time running around with wounds.

I've played around with multiple things:

Starting PCs at a higher level (usually level 3)
Starting PCs with HPs equal to constitution (various combinations of this)
Just saying "screw it" and giving PCs +10 HP or some other number.  Don't the old Hackmaster rules at +20?

Just about anything works.  The only thing I don't think works at all is applying the same rule to minor opposing NPCs and monsters.  It just increases the HP attrition slog that combat is.

I think it depends on what tone you want your game to be.

What you had for the Space Opera sounds fine to me. As you'd want the characters to be pretty robust heroes. Not much of a hero if he gets lumped by paraplegic Jawa at first level 'cause the poor bloke has 2 hps.

Generally though, for my own games which are pretty dark, I'll probably throw out max HP for level one and then strip it back to normal after.

I do like my players to feel like they've gone through the meat grinder but I don't like killing them off willy-nilly (just my own preference). I have nicked the idea of Fate Points from WFRP in the past and given 1 to each player at the start of an adventure. So you get that one chance if shit hits the fan. Plus, you can give them out for rewards.

The HP number for death I generally like zero, that said I've let a character go to -2 before, because there was a surgeon beside him and could give instant aid. But said character had to spend a good bit of time recovering.

It depends on the game, but I usually give max hit points at first level and if I think they really need it, I double it. 0 HP is dying and negative HP equal to your level is dead.

I eventually had a house rule in 1e/2e where 1st-level PCs all start at max hp.

I find D+D more enjoyable when the chance of death before reaching 3rd level is pretty substantial; I just find it makes play more exciting and progress feels more rewarding. So, I don't play 4E at all (largely for this reason), and don't do anything to toughen up low level characters in pre-4E editions. I instituted a house rule in my 5E play that effectively treats 'backgrounds' as something equivalent to the 0-level funnel in DCC. New characters start play at 0 level with no class but all the benefits of their background, and 1d6 HP (plus CON bonus if appropriate). The level up to 1st level after getting from -50 to 0 EXP or for surviving their first adventure (I've done both, and a case can be made for either). Once you reach 1st level, you gain all your class abilities and so forth, and then add HP equivalent to 1 roll of your new class hit die, but do not add your CON bonus a second time (i.e., you only get it once for the level 0,1 period). Because both the 0-level d6 and the 1st level hit die are rolled, not given as a maximum result, the average outcome is pretty similar to the canonical rules. I.e., the average outcome for a 1st level fighter would be 1d6+1d10 = average of 9, whereas canonical rules would assign a value of 10. But, there is more variance in HP at first level, and characters spend some time in that really 'squishy' mode, which increases overall lethality (which I think is too low in 5E).
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Quote from: Mike the Mage;1045319In addition the player also has a number of "wound hit points" that are based on a racial hit dice, like d8 for elves, dwarves and humans, d6 for halflings and d10 for half orcs.

I usually run AD&D with a similar thing: class/level hit points are on top of a small random amount of 0-level hit points, using the chart on p. 88 of the DMG under Typical Inhabitants. That's for humans. Nonhumans use the MM hit die value for 0-level hp. It all adds up to a single pool of hp, though: unconsciousness at 0 hp, death at -10.

Quote from: Barbatruc;1045403I usually run AD&D with a similar thing: class/level hit points are on top of a small random amount of 0-level hit points, using the chart on p. 88 of the DMG under Typical Inhabitants. That's for humans.

Sucks to be a Sedentary Female, eh.

Quote from: S'mon;1045408Sucks to be a Sedentary Female, eh.

I'll take your word for it, as I don't implement the distinction in question.

Quote from: Barbatruc;1045420I'll take your word for it, as I don't implement the distinction in question.

You only use part of the chart? The male part?

I was wondering do Labouring/Active/Sedentary roles & thus hp get assigned by PC class?