I've never played this game, but I've been on a supers kick lately, and I have a bunch of Rifts and Fantasy stuff. I'll likely pick up the 2nd edition soon. I am quite familiar with Palladium's systems, so please don't bother crapping on it.

In any case:

What are the games strengths?

What are it's weaknesses?

What is the best power level (street to galactic), or does it cover all power levels well?

Are any of the supplements must-haves?

Are any of the supplements avoidable?

Most people (including the last guy who reviewed it at RPG.net) call it "Heroes Limited."  

This is because Siembieda specifically intended for the heroes to be lower-powered and obliged to use their brains as much as their powers because they aren't necessarily going to be bulletproof.

The irony, as I'd noted in my RPG.net review of RIFTS, is that the later game blew realism and game balance out the window with Mega-Damage, and Siembieda tried to justify how imbalanced that was by pointing out that in real life a normal human has no chance against an attack helicopter.  Heroes Unlimited has both normal humans and attack helicopters, and the copters aren't Mega-Damage structures.  

The random power generation plays out a lot like Villains & Vigilantes, except simultaneously more complicated and less versatile.

I did however like the way Skills work in the game: Based on your general educational and economic level, you get certain skill blocks of academic, professional and possibly physical training, with options for learning more in the course of play.  This seemed a lot more flexible than the Fantasy/RIFTS games where skills seem very much tied to one's class (O.C.C.).

I'm not really a big collector, but the HU line has a lot of supplements, some of which (like the Gramercy Island setting) were actually fairly acclaimed when they came out.

JG

Quote from: danbuter;470655[/FONT][/COLOR]
What are the games strengths?

What are it's weaknesses?

What is the best power level (street to galactic), or does it cover all power levels well?

Are any of the supplements must-haves?

Are any of the supplements avoidable?

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-It's a pretty well-supported line, with the Powers Unlimited tie-ins and books like Century Station.
 
-A lot of people complain that the supers are too easily killed, or are too vulnerable. Certainly if you keep things in the SDC realm, it's very possible your super has a messy ending. As with most Palladium titles, it takes a strong GM to impose balance; then again, you can get a range of characters that include some of the less-powerful JLA or Avengers, which is pretty cool.
 
-I think for us the sweet spot was in sort of a mid-level Avengers-type group. Making the analogue of Superman isn't the easiest, but a Hawkeye, Captain America, Iron Man level is pretty easy.
 
-Century Station is a great city-based setting for the game, but could easily be used with any supers game you want. It's probably one of my favorite supplements for any game line, period.
 
-I haven't looked at all the supplements, but I believe some of the galaxy-level ones are a mixed bag.

It's a train wreck of random unbalanced power mechanics tacked unto a badly organized broken system.

Quote from: danbuter;470655I've never played this game, but I've been on a supers kick lately, and I have a bunch of Rifts and Fantasy stuff. I'll likely pick up the 2nd edition soon. I am quite familiar with Palladium's systems, so please don't bother crapping on it.

In any case:

What are the games strengths?

What are it's weaknesses?

What is the best power level (street to galactic), or does it cover all power levels well?

Are any of the supplements must-haves?

Are any of the supplements avoidable?

There's a wide variety of classes.  I like the education level / skills grouping aspect.

It's weaknesses are mostly that it is not meant for high-powered supers.  It handles street level to X-Men level powers pretty well.  It does not handle GLA / Avengers type power levels.

For supplements, there are the Powers Unlimited books which are full of new powers and a few new classes.  Personally, I'd add in TMNT (though its OOP) and Ninjas and Superspies if you are going street level.

Then there's Villains Unlimited if you need some bad guys, or Aliens Unlimited if you need some alien races.  And there's the Grammercy Island / Century City books that add some setting details.

I'm not sure if I remember any forgettable supplements per se.

It could  be an excellent low power game if they tweaked it specifically for that level. Yet things like Body of Metal, blow the curve completely for street level games. However, it doesn't  live up to people like Colossus, or Citizen Steel's resilience, with that power.

It can't really touch the Avengers with a ten foot pole, Spider-Man would take twisting the system a great deal due to its structured power types, and in general it just doesn't get that superheroes don't work so well with its classes. Marvel Girl is flat out impossible as she started out. (She could lift a great deal with her TK, something the psychic classes can't manage) among many other heroes (Rogue, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter )

I would argue that it's the ultimate (pun intended) iron age supers rpg.

Here is a game where a guy who can toss around fire blasts will probably pack a 9mm smg and have lots of pouches full of stuff.

The origins used are: Robotics, Cybernetics, Hardware, Physical Training, Experiments, Mutants, Magic (with subclasses for magic weapon guys, entities, and spell casters), Psionics, and Aliens.

You may need to multiclass some characters from comics but I would argue that most are higher level and just got some extra junk in play.  For instance Wolverine is a Mutant with regeneration and animal senses who got a metal skeleton and cyber claws later in his career.

Anyhow, I'm developing an urge to play this.  I think it's one of Palladium's best offerings even if it is one of the two that destroyed the system.  (bloody physical skills and SDC for people)

We had fun when our club played it last.  Gm was novice but was still a fun game.  We're probably going to play it again.

However, more than about four or five players may test some folk who aren't used to Palladium.

Quote from: kryyst;470686It's a train wreck of random unbalanced power mechanics tacked unto a badly organized broken system.

I'm so glad I asked that no one just jump Palladium's system.

Heroes Unlimited is a flawed gem.

Only someone as beautifully crazy as Kevin Siembieda would ever tackle the idea of a class-and-level-based superhero RPG.

By any objective standard, you should hate this game. You pick a class, based on origin and/or powers (e.g. there's a Psionic class, and a Magic class, but you can also if you pick the Alien class, you may end up rolling an alien with psionics, or an alien sorcerer, or whatever). Psionic powers, magic, super-tech, martial arts, and old-fashioned superpowers like flight and eye beams all use different systems. It's as clunky and inelegant and poorly laid-out and confusing and all over the place as anything Palladium has ever put out.

And for some reason, I'm a sucker for this game. It's got that kitchen-sink approach that paradoxically makes it a poor fit for everything, because it's its own thing. You know how it would suck to use AD&D 1e RAW for a Middle-Earth game? (e.g. why is my elf fighter level capped? Why is it that my level 5 MU rocks harder than Gandalf, and can't use a sword? etc.) HU is kind of like that. It's going to be a poor fit for your X-Men or JLA game.

But if you approach it from the bground up, tabula rasa, it's wild and zany and over-the-top and gritty all at the same time. It's a relic, a legacy, atestament to the genius and madness of Kevin Siembieda, the Fitzcarraldo of our jaded and inbred little hobby. It's the sort of game that would never, ever, not in a million years, get written, let alone published, nowadays.

Also Kevin Siembieda understands and loves the genre like no other RPG writer I have ever seen. His love of the genre oozes through the writing, the art, the ready-made adventures and NPCs. Incidentally, this is what made me understand Palladium's games: they don't just tackle their nominal genres, they tackle them through a Bronze Age comics lens. But I digress.

If you're looking for an elaborate and flexible character generation system like HERO or M&M, forget it. If you're looking for a lightweight (and lighthearted) four-color action system like ICONS or BASH, forget it too. HU is neither fish nor fowl, which of course is why it'll always be considered a joke by any "serious" fan of supers RPGs.

Anyway, if you're a fan of supers gaming, even if you detest HU, you owe it to yourself to pick up Bill Coffin's Century Station. It's the definite answer to "what does a sandbox campaign setting for supers look like?" in my book.

Quote from: danbuter;470735I'm so glad I asked that no one just jump Palladium's system.

Why put more time into a response then the system is worth.  They have a power called Invulnerable - the description is can not be hurt.   That's just dumb.

Quote from: danbuter;470655I've never played this game, but I've been on a supers kick lately, and I have a bunch of Rifts and Fantasy stuff. I'll likely pick up the 2nd edition soon. I am quite familiar with Palladium's systems, so please don't bother crapping on it.

In any case:

What are the games strengths?

What are it's weaknesses?

What is the best power level (street to galactic), or does it cover all power levels well?

Are any of the supplements must-haves?

Are any of the supplements avoidable?

Its biggest strength is that it isn't balanced. If you write up a guy with sonic flight, super strength, and invulnerability, he is going to mash a guy that has winged flight and breaths fire. We usually play "street level" and I think it does that best. It doesn't have much for flying into space.

On that note, the reason why it isn't balanced is because it is easy to stack the same bonus over and over. Nothing will stop you from finding three or four powers that grant additional attacks, then using a gun when everyone else is out of actions to dodge. If you do that, you are just being an asshole and playing wrong. It takes the GM to tell everyone to play along, and monitor character creation to be sure people are playing fair / complimentary characters: or at least characters they will enjoy in your game.

The main supplements you need, in my opinion, are Ninja's and Superspies and Mystic China. Neither are that expensive. The Powers Unlimited series is nice, but not needed. I recommend Villains Unlimited because it includes about 100 fair and mostly sub optimal characters designed in the spirit of the system. If you compare PCs to characters in that book you are doing ok.

For avoided supplements: Aliens Unlimited and the Galaxy Guide are kind of pointless. After the Bomb is an amazing stand alone, but HU2 has good mutant rules so it is a little redundant.

Quote from: kryyst;470759Why put more time into a response then the system is worth.  They have a power called Invulnerable - the description is can not be hurt.   That's just dumb.

Oh yeah, you wouldn't want a super hero that is Invulnerable. You are purposely selling it short. It has several paragraphs detailing how to beat an invulnerable character including wrestling, choking, gas, magic, psychic powers... which are all common among heroes.

Quote from: danbuter;470735I'm so glad I asked that no one just jump Palladium's system.

The fact that Palladium has unbalanced mechanics and horrible organization really ought to go without saying, and for the most part it has.  

JG

Quote from: The Butcher;470756Heroes Unlimited is a flawed gem.

Only someone as beautifully crazy as Kevin Siembieda would ever tackle the idea of a class-and-level-based superhero RPG.

Well, actually there were the d20 conversions of Silver Age Sentinels and Aberrant and those weren't too great either.

JG