Quote from: trechriron;1095478I should also mention Open D6 is a solid (if a little dated) option. The new Mythic D6 game is a nice polished combination of Legend D6 and Jerry Grayson's D6 Powers. It's more customizable from a powers perspective than SWADE, but plays as fast.

I haven't looked at Mythic D6. My group did not have a good experience with D6 Fantasy. The combat system just isn't geared towards toe-to-toe slugfests, and the magic system wasn't even remotely usable or suitable for D6 style play. If I recall correctly, it was taken from a completely different game system that WEG owned. (Masterbook?)

Quote from: Lurkndog;1096391I haven't looked at Mythic D6. My group did not have a good experience with D6 Fantasy. The combat system just isn't geared towards toe-to-toe slugfests, and the magic system wasn't even remotely usable or suitable for D6 style play. If I recall correctly, it was taken from a completely different game system that WEG owned. (Masterbook?)

Yes, magic is from MasterBook and yes, it is nearly incomprehensible... and incongruous with the rest of the system. The ads and disads are also from MB and they mostly suck as well.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1095810Agreed 100%

Another advantage of AGE over GURPS/Hero you have all the game in one book, you don't need to add/remove stuff to play genre X (of the ones they have published). Still the GURPS world books are such a great wealth of info, even if their take on precolombine cultures is a bit too on the noble savage for my taste. (Haven't found one that doesn't have the exact same defect)

Not exactly true anymore. You can play Hero with one book. Champions Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete. GURPS not so much since each genre requires stuff not in the main books. I still buy GURPS Settings and the like, but use them as sources for my Hero games.

Quote from: Lurkndog;1096391I haven't looked at Mythic D6. My group did not have a good experience with D6 Fantasy. The combat system just isn't geared towards toe-to-toe slugfests, and the magic system wasn't even remotely usable or suitable for D6 style play. If I recall correctly, it was taken from a completely different game system that WEG owned. (Masterbook?)

Jerry Greyson made a new Mythic D6. It is a generic "superhero" game that fits in with the MM3e, HERO crowd in approach. It's well tuned, plays fast and the book is good quality.

Quote from: shuddemell;1096436Not exactly true anymore. You can play Hero with one book. Champions Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete. GURPS not so much since each genre requires stuff not in the main books. I still buy GURPS Settings and the like, but use them as sources for my Hero games.

Not with Fourth edition. GURPS 4e has a power system that is as flexible as Hero. It downside is that it not laid out as straight forward so at first glance it appears as regular advantages.

The genre books are about implementing the core books for the genre. There are some books like Banestorm and Magic which updates and carries forward older GURPS material that are popular among the fanbase.

Then there are the lines like Dungeon Fantasy, Monster Hunters, and Action, which unlike the genre books are implementation of GURPS in the vein of a non-generic RPG.

It pretty much a wash between how HERO 5e/6e and GURPS 4e sets up their line.

Quote from: shuddemell;1096436Not exactly true anymore. You can play Hero with one book. Champions Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete. GURPS not so much since each genre requires stuff not in the main books. I still buy GURPS Settings and the like, but use them as sources for my Hero games.

I was just looking at the new (ish) Fantasy Hero Complete, and just got in the mail a nice minty copy of Fantasy Hero 5th Edition. I have to say that I like the latter much better. The former does look standalone but it seems like they are trying to repackage Hero system more like d20 type games in a D&D book size, and there were a few oddball stand out differences.

FH5 has a bunch of templates for character types based on race, profession, background, etc. Most are low point cost, so if you wanted to create a Deep Forest Elven Ranger, just buy the templates with your CPs and you have plenty left over to customize your character.

Quote from: estar;1096450Not with Fourth edition. GURPS 4e has a power system that is as flexible as Hero.

Is that in Gurps Powers? Or in Characters or Campaigns?

Quote from: theory of games;1095432which rpg system best handles any genre? Gurps and hero used to be giants but, savage worlds is getting bigger and bigger. Has the new kid taken over the block or are the giants just sleeping?

If your players convinced you to run a game about spacefaring, dimension-hopping, psychic ninja-cops, which system do you think gets it done?

Traveller.

Quote from: Chris24601;1095923
In other words, you couldn't get extra build points just by giving yourself a bunch of role-playing hooks the GM actually has to manage and remember to include lest your flaws not actually be flaws. If the current adventure really doesn't have any situation where a complication comes up, it just doesn't come up; the GM doesn't have to throw in something involving your DNPC back home (or keep track that it needs to come up ASAP when appropriate) just because the once/session 8- roll happened to pop (not to mention the occasional flaw pile-ups I saw in large groups where multiple hunted/secret identity/dnpc popped all at once in some Champions games I was involved in).

Exactly why I'm liking M&M over GURPS and HERO.

Quote from: Aglondir;1096465Is that in Gurps Powers? Or in Characters or Campaigns?

The powers system is based off of advantages, included in Characters. Guidance on how to do that is in Powers

Quote from: jeff37923;1096467Traveller.

You know, I was initially tempted to answer exactly so myself. Given that it's what I'm actually most likely to use, and have used. I think Traveller is grossly underrated as a generic toolkit.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1096495You know, I was initially tempted to answer exactly so myself. Given that it's what I'm actually most likely to use, and have used. I think Traveller is grossly underrated as a generic toolkit.

On the one hand, I meant it in a tongue-and-cheek way, but it really is a versatile system. There already are medieval and bronze age versions of the game (Mercator) and there are systems for integrating spell use into the game. The key is the kind of game play that you want for characters, class and level games tend to favor the "zero to hero" type of character while Traveller types reflect a character with a detailed background and experience.

Quote from: estar;1096450Not with Fourth edition. GURPS 4e has a power system that is as flexible as Hero. It downside is that it not laid out as straight forward so at first glance it appears as regular advantages.

The genre books are about implementing the core books for the genre. There are some books like Banestorm and Magic which updates and carries forward older GURPS material that are popular among the fanbase.

Then there are the lines like Dungeon Fantasy, Monster Hunters, and Action, which unlike the genre books are implementation of GURPS in the vein of a non-generic RPG.

It pretty much a wash between how HERO 5e/6e and GURPS 4e sets up their line.

Ah, I stand corrected. In my defense, GURPS 3E was the last look I took at it. Though I did buy a copy of Dungeon Fantasy recently but haven't had a chance to go through it.

Sounds like the main issue would be scalability. GURPS always seemed a little better at gritty, and Hero a little better at Superheroic, but otherwise very similar in their universality. YMMV, but I think they are both fine systems, and prefer them both to SW or M&M.

Quote from: Lynn;1096462I was just looking at the new (ish) Fantasy Hero Complete, and just got in the mail a nice minty copy of Fantasy Hero 5th Edition. I have to say that I like the latter much better. The former does look standalone but it seems like they are trying to repackage Hero system more like d20 type games in a D&D book size, and there were a few oddball stand out differences.

FH5 has a bunch of templates for character types based on race, profession, background, etc. Most are low point cost, so if you wanted to create a Deep Forest Elven Ranger, just buy the templates with your CPs and you have plenty left over to customize your character.

Yeah, it kind of depends on your preference. I like 5E and 6E equally well as systems, there were a few differences in terms of figured characteristics, but they are very much the same system. On the issue of the Complete books, I think it was mainly a last ditch effort to shed the "too complex" moniker that is always leveled at Hero. To do this, they removed a lot of the extra things like templates, which made the 5E Fantasy book a little more useful to the gamemaster. I think ultimately, that the one "mistake" for Hero is that the support and settings bottomed out and it doesn't cater well to those GM's that don't want to put the work in for a campaign, and would rather run premade adventures, which is what the big 2 (WOTC and PAIZO) really excel at, because they have tons of ready to run modules. Hero never got that kind of support, it's more for the craftsmen gamemasters rather than the casual ones.

Quote from: shuddemell;1096436Not exactly true anymore. You can play Hero with one book. Champions Complete or Fantasy Hero Complete. GURPS not so much since each genre requires stuff not in the main books. I still buy GURPS Settings and the like, but use them as sources for my Hero games.

You were always able to play HERO with one book until 6E. 1E-3E were complete stand alone games Champions, Espionage, FH, DI, JI. Champions and FH did have some supplements, but they were not required. 4E Champions was entirely self contained, 4E HERO was the complete rules, and could be played with nothing else, although that varied by genre, FH he supplements were highly desirable,  but post apocalypse or modern action games really required nothing more (which was good, because there was little offered). 5E HERO basically the same as 4E, maybe even more so, since they moved almost all the rules into the core book, and the genre books were primarily guidelines to running a game in that genre. The setting books offered more mechanics since they were providing specific game worlds. 6E was the first and only to split the core rules into multiple required, and several recommended but not essential books that included significant mechanics in them.
 
GURPS 3E could theoretically be played with just the core, but you are missing out on a lot without some of the supplements. 4E also went the multiple required / highly recommended books route.

Quote from: Lynn;1096462I was just looking at the new (ish) Fantasy Hero Complete, and just got in the mail a nice minty copy of Fantasy Hero 5th Edition. I have to say that I like the latter much better. The former does look standalone but it seems like they are trying to repackage Hero system more like d20 type games in a D&D book size, and there were a few oddball stand out differences.

FH5 has a bunch of templates for character types based on race, profession, background, etc. Most are low point cost, so if you wanted to create a Deep Forest Elven Ranger, just buy the templates with your CPs and you have plenty left over to customize your character.

I haven't looked through the Complete series. I think it was a good idea, and long over due, but can't comment on how well it was done. Removing templates sounds like one of those stepping over a quarter to save a nickel kind of things. Removing them lowers page count, but they are a good tool to guide the new players the book was aimed at. Templates used to be Package Deals in the older editions, the idea being you got a bunch of stuff that made sense for the PC, but also were forced to spend some points on things of possibly dubious value, so you got a little bit of a discount. In 5th they decided to remove the discount and changed the name since there was no longer any "deal" to the package. It also went from a package where you bought the whole thing, to a listing of suggested skills, talents and was mostly just guidance of what a profession, culture etc would provide to a member.

Quote from: shuddemell;1096502Yeah, it kind of depends on your preference. I like 5E and 6E equally well as systems, there were a few differences in terms of figured characteristics, but they are very much the same system. On the issue of the Complete books, I think it was mainly a last ditch effort to shed the "too complex" moniker that is always leveled at Hero. To do this, they removed a lot of the extra things like templates, which made the 5E Fantasy book a little more useful to the gamemaster. I think ultimately, that the one "mistake" for Hero is that the support and settings bottomed out and it doesn't cater well to those GM's that don't want to put the work in for a campaign, and would rather run premade adventures, which is what the big 2 (WOTC and PAIZO) really excel at, because they have tons of ready to run modules. Hero never got that kind of support, it's more for the craftsmen gamemasters rather than the casual ones.

5E and 6E didn't get much of that but the earlier editions did. I don't know the depth of their research, but they claimed that the HERO pre-made adventures were not good sellers. Lacking any data I can't support or disprove their claims, although up through 4th they kept putting them out, particularly in the Champions line. It is possible that adventures just were not within their range of interest, but it doesn't seem to far fetched that a game like HERO would attract GMs that leaned heavily toward DIY. GURPS has never been particularly heavy on pre-made adventures either, so Steve Long et al may have been correct in that not being a winning strategy. HERO 5E did however provide a plethora of GM support books featuring tons of premade powers, gadgets, equipment, adversaries, allies critters and general NPCs.