It just seems way too complex for me. I like much simpler rules. What is it you like about Hero System?

Quote from: brettmb;265111It just seems way too complex for me. I like much simpler rules. What is it you like about Hero System?

This was my take as well. The guys who have run me through it have all sited two things they liked the most:
1. Tactical play.
2. Flexible/complex character builds

Both left me cold to the point I had the GMs make the characters for me which is something I usually enjoy doing myself.

Bill

I first encountered it as champions back in the 80s, and it just didn't grab me. I pretty much didn't hear about it again until a few years ago. It still doesn't, but people seem to love it. It would be nice to hear some specifics as to why those people love it so.

I tried to love it--I wrote articles for it (very few), I've played it--but I like comic books logic, more than games logic. I like speed and flexibility more than I like "building" a character.

It does have some neat aspects: Building bases, weapons, starships, using the same rules for building powers and special abilities makes customizing your Sci Fi universe easier in some ways.

I like the HERO system a lot.  It's probably my favorite system, but the learning curve is a serious bitch, and I understand why people are intimidated.

It's possible to describe pretty much every object imaginable with the system mechanics.  While it does require a very high degree of system mastery, once one becomes comfortable with using the system you can very efficiently describe things that players interact with.

There are many systems that allow you to create any world you want, but the ones without a steep learning curve tend to be very granular, so different abilities are either not distinct or rely heavily on GM fiat/handwaving.

HERO is different in that you can use it to create actual mechanical models of imaginary worlds, with any sort of "magic" system you want, whether that be super-powers in the style of a particular comic universe, or wuxia kung fu magic martial arts, or He-Man or whatever the fuck you think up.

I generally think HERO works best if the GM handles all the mechanics, and players create their characters by describing what they want their character to do.

I'm with you, Brett.. its just too rules-heavy.

RPGPundit

Is there a specific genre that it handles really well, other than supers?

Not to sound the "me-too", but I've also tried it a couple times, and it just wasn't for me.  I think it had a little too much structure.  But I can see where folks would enjoy being able to build anything.

I like HERO. If you want an universal system for cinematic action, it's your game. Unfortunately, the word of mouth (which I disagree with but whatever) makes it hard to find people who are willing to give it a try.

Quote from: brettmb;265154Is there a specific genre that it handles really well, other than supers?

It handles pretty much all genres pretty well.  It's really good for simulating specific TV shows, movies or other sources.  I've used it for Firefly for example.

I've developed my own Martial Arts Styles for simulating TV stunt fighting from different decades.  For example the vicious neck snap to dispatch people didn't really turn up on TV til the late 90's, and is a real trademark of Joss Whedon's shows.

So for my Firefly campaign, I developed a list of maneuvers that are used in the show a lot.  Here's a sample from my write-up for Jayne Cobb, who has the whole list of moves:   Cinematic Fighting - Regular    
1) Choke Hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2 1/2d6 NND    
2) Cross Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6 1/2d6 Strike    
3) Forearm Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort    
4) Groin Buster: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2d6 NND    
5) Neck Snap: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Grab One Limb; HKA 1 1/2d6 , Disable    
6) Roundhouse Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6 1/2d6 Strike    
7) Takedown: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, 4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls    
Uppercut: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 8 1/2d6 StrikeSo the names make the maneuvers pretty obvious.  They're all standard moves from the game, just renamed (except Takedown) to give them more specific flavor ("Martial Block" is sort of boring sounding).  The Choke Hold and Groin Buster are both No Normal Defense attacks, that means they ignore all defenses but are completely nullified if the target has a particular defense or quality.  in this case, the defenses are Hard Armor Over Location or Lack of Breathing for Choke Hold, and Hard Armor Over Location or Lack of Male Genitalia for the Groin Buster.

I really don't think it's that hard of a game to play, certainly no more difficult than 3.5 D&D.  It's the building characters part that is tough.

Well, if it's too complex for you, then it's not for you. And it does have a very tough learning curve.  

However, I still feel it is an excellent piece of design.  It isn't just that it's tactical, but that it supports intuitive, sensible tactics rather than abstract options like in D&D3 or D&D4, say.  I've used it for martial arts genre action, medieval fantasy, psychic powers, two-fisted pulp, ghost-hunting, and space opera.  

I'm running using the Action! System at the moment, which is strongly influenced by the Hero System but much simpler based on my players' preferences -- but I find that I miss many of the options from the real thing.

The wealth of options for character and ability tinkering make for an entertaining solo game in and of itself.  As a longtime Hero fan, I suspect this is a significant part of the system's appeal.

Lord Hobie

I think I would have liked it more when I was younger and used to enjoy designing fleets of warships and vehicles in various Traveller systems.  Now, I prefer games that are more plot than tactics so the build is less important and not worth spending hours on.

To me, HERO is like spaghetti.  I like it, but I don't always want it.

Quote from: Jackalope;265175It handles pretty much all genres pretty well.  It's really good for simulating specific TV shows, movies or other sources.  I've used it for Firefly for example.

I've developed my own Martial Arts Styles for simulating TV stunt fighting from different decades.  For example the vicious neck snap to dispatch people didn't really turn up on TV til the late 90's, and is a real trademark of Joss Whedon's shows.

So for my Firefly campaign, I developed a list of maneuvers that are used in the show a lot.  Here's a sample from my write-up for Jayne Cobb, who has the whole list of moves:   Cinematic Fighting - Regular    
1) Choke Hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2 1/2d6 NND    
2) Cross Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6 1/2d6 Strike    
3) Forearm Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort    
4) Groin Buster: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2d6 NND    
5) Neck Snap: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Grab One Limb; HKA 1 1/2d6 , Disable    
6) Roundhouse Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 6 1/2d6 Strike    
7) Takedown: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, 4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls    
Uppercut: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 8 1/2d6 StrikeSo the names make the maneuvers pretty obvious.  They're all standard moves from the game, just renamed (except Takedown) to give them more specific flavor ("Martial Block" is sort of boring sounding).  The Choke Hold and Groin Buster are both No Normal Defense attacks, that means they ignore all defenses but are completely nullified if the target has a particular defense or quality.  in this case, the defenses are Hard Armor Over Location or Lack of Breathing for Choke Hold, and Hard Armor Over Location or Lack of Male Genitalia for the Groin Buster.

I really don't think it's that hard of a game to play, certainly no more difficult than 3.5 D&D.  It's the building characters part that is tough.

Jackelope's description of his martial arts style perfectly illustrates why I find HERO to be more complex than I want - that's just way, way too many rules for me for something as simple as hand-to-hand combat.  I just don't want or need that much detail.

EDIT: Here's pretty much all I want for unarmed combat [Unarmed - 1d6 damage]