The genre books for 5e are really quite nice,

Are they worth buying again for the 6e versions? Or are they mostly the same?

Similarly is 6e in general a worthwhile update?

If you have a bunch of 5e stuff, you can safely skip 6e, unless you really like color pictures. In any case, I doubt we're going to see too many more 6e books, since Hero Games is barely staying afloat, and has lost Steve Long.

Wow, Steve Long is gone, I did not know this, but I haven't been keeping up on HERO since they would never print the Villains #3 book I wanted and swore I would not buy another book from them until they did.

If you've got an extensive line of 5R HERO products, then you're still golden.  Conversion for creatures and NPCs is easy if you're spit-balling it.

Quote from: Piestrio;545352The genre books for 5e are really quite nice,

Are they worth buying again for the 6e versions? Or are they mostly the same?

Similarly is 6e in general a worthwhile update?

I could go into the differences between 6th and 5th Edition HERO in some depth if you like, but since 6th put the game into the graveyard- I think it may well be a waste of time.

Let me know however if you think differently.

6e is a tragedy; it's less an RPG and more a cry for help.  I never thought of Hero Games or ICE when they were publishing Hero System/Champions as being some staggering titan of pen and paper RPGs but 6e just breaks my heart at how bad it is.

If you have 5e you've got the best version of the game if for nothing other than the genre-books.

I agree that 6E is circling the drain, but ironically it fixes some of the most terrible design decisions in Hero. Oh, well.

Quote from: daniel_ream;545450I agree that 6E is circling the drain, but ironically it fixes some of the most terrible design decisions in Hero. Oh, well.

Yeah, there are some really solid changes. It's just a shame the thing came out so gobsmackingly BIG that it scares people away. I don't scare easily so I bought it, and I use it. I really appreciate most of the changes, and I can live with the others. But I'm in the process of converting my campaign - setting, sourcebook and all - to a different more "modern" RPG rules set which is easier to work with.

That's a shame that it seems to be dying.

What changes are worthwhile, BTW?

Quote from: gleichman;545385I could go into the differences between 6th and 5th Edition HERO in some depth if you like, but since 6th put the game into the graveyard- I think it may well be a waste of time.

Let me know however if you think differently.

Hit me.

Quote from: Piestrio;545519What changes are worthwhile, BTW?

Having Primary Characteristics act as a base for Figured Characteristics and combat stats meant that buying stats was a straightforward optimization problem with a small number of optimal values for each stat.  6E requires you to buy Primary and Secondary Characteristics and combat stats independently, breaking the mathematical relationships between them.

Amusingly enough, this is the one change that the HERO grognards hate the most.

Quote from: daniel_ream;545538Having Primary Characteristics act as a base for Figured Characteristics and combat stats meant that buying stats was a straightforward optimization problem with a small number of optimal values for each stat.  6E requires you to buy Primary and Secondary Characteristics and combat stats independently, breaking the mathematical relationships between them.

Amusingly enough, this is the one change that the HERO grognards hate the most.

Huh, would you, on the whole, that make chargen faster or slower?

Quote from: flyingcircus;545375Wow, Steve Long is gone, I did not know this, but I haven't been keeping up on HERO since they would never print the Villains #3 book I wanted and swore I would not buy another book from them until they did.

For what it's worth, their Kickstarter succeeded and Champions Villains 3 is going to print. They even hit their stretch goal and so are doing another print run of the Advanced Players Guide II, if that's your thing.

ETA: Hero Games kickstarters all seem to have been successful thus far. Things like CV3 and Book of the Empress. So there's definitely demand for their books, and as long as they keep their goals where they need them to be they're certainly not dead. Just not as big as they once were and needing to do things like Kickstarter to mitigate risk and gauge interest in specific projects instead of just printing whatever they want when they want. I really like 6e and I love their books, so as long as more books are still coming out I can live with that.

It would help if they actually got the rulebook back into print, as well. :rolleyes:

Quote from: daniel_ream;545538Having Primary Characteristics act as a base for Figured Characteristics and combat stats meant that buying stats was a straightforward optimization problem with a small number of optimal values for each stat.  6E requires you to buy Primary and Secondary Characteristics and combat stats independently, breaking the mathematical relationships between them.

Amusingly enough, this is the one change that the HERO grognards hate the most.

I guess I'm one of the "Hero grognards" (been playing since Champions came out in '81) and this was my least-favorite change. I don't "hate" it or consider it a deal killer, but for me it slows down chargen and inflates character point totals. I've gotten used to it.

My favorite change: when 6E came out I said "if they don't fix the rules for extra damage, I'm done." This was an over-complicated mess in 5E, with some damage getting halved, others adding the full value, and no sense to which was which. Happily, 6E did away with that. Damage is damage no matter where it comes from; no halving, no confusion.