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HERESY THREAD: Sacred cows that you think D&D would be better without.

Started by Archangel Fascist, September 16, 2013, 09:42:34 PM

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Archangel Fascist

September 16, 2013, 09:42:34 PM
I'll start us out with a big one: the d20.  I hate rolling the d20 because it has such a wide range of numbers that success or failure is often based on luck rather than your character's ability (a 20 is likely to be a success and a 1 a failure no matter your character's in-game skill).  There's no mechanism in the game to prevent a string of bad rolls, either.  The d20 is wild and swingy, and there's nothing that pushes your roll to the average except rolling a lot.  This often translates to an evening of really awful rolls or really great rolls, which takes some of the fun out of it for me.

I think rolling 3d6 or 2d10 would be a better system.

Spinal Tarp

#1
September 16, 2013, 09:48:59 PM
There are lots of them, but my top 3 are;

1)  The 6 ability scores.

2)  The entire magic system.

3)  The Cleric class.
There\'s a fine line between \'clever\' and \'stupid\'.

YourSwordisMine

#2
September 16, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;691567I'll start us out with a big one: the d20.  I hate rolling the d20 because it has such a wide range of numbers that success or failure is often based on luck rather than your character's ability (a 20 is likely to be a success and a 1 a failure no matter your character's in-game skill).  There's no mechanism in the game to prevent a string of bad rolls, either.  The d20 is wild and swingy, and there's nothing that pushes your roll to the average except rolling a lot.  This often translates to an evening of really awful rolls or really great rolls, which takes some of the fun out of it for me.

I think rolling 3d6 or 2d10 would be a better system.

Killing any of the "sacred cows" of D&D, then the game is no longer D&D...

This started with 3e, and was exemplified with 4e...
Quote from: ExploderwizardStarting out as fully formed awesome and riding the awesome train across a flat plane to awesome town just doesn\'t feel like D&D. :)

Quote from: ExploderwizardThe interwebs are like Tahiti - its a magical place.

Arkansan

#3
September 16, 2013, 09:51:01 PM
I'm not much a fan of the cleric, but I am not so sure that is a sacred cow. I too am not the biggest fan of the d20. I also wouldn't mind modifying the vanician casting system.

None of these complaints are deal breakers for me though, he'll d&d is all I really play. Most of these are easy enough to house rule, though it may change some assumptions about the setting.

Endless Flight

#4
September 16, 2013, 09:53:41 PM
I'd ditch the six ability scores and go with just the bonus/penalty like True20.

I'd also ditch the AC/Saves and go with three defenses like Star Wars Saga.

Arkansan

#5
September 16, 2013, 09:53:48 PM
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;691570Killing any of the "sacred cows" of D&D, then the game is no longer D&D...

This started with 3e, and was exemplified with 4e...

Hate to double post but I just saw this and don't know how to edit a quote into an existing post. I don't think this is entirely true, I do think that if you kill enough of them it is but I feel that I can safely remove clerics and change the casting a bit and still be playing a version of d&d.

Rincewind1

#6
September 16, 2013, 09:58:54 PM
Quote from: Arkansan;691571I'm not much a fan of the cleric, but I am not so sure that is a sacred cow. I too am not the biggest fan of the d20. I also wouldn't mind modifying the vanician casting system.

None of these complaints are deal breakers for me though, he'll d&d is all I really play. Most of these are easy enough to house rule, though it may change some assumptions about the setting.

Funny, as I'm more against the Druid, as I think he's a bit redundant if Cleric is around.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Arkansan

#7
September 16, 2013, 10:07:27 PM
See that's my problem with the Cleric they assume certain things about religion in d&d land. If I would have them at all I would have to devise one for each major deity with its own unique thing going.

The standard cleric is a trope that doesn't mesh that well with the rest of the setting assumptions to me. I mean it kinda fits the quasi medieval thing, but clashes with the underlying sword and sorcery themes. I think the game would have been better served to have Fighter, Thief, and Magic User originally.  In fact at my table in person I use this method with most of Akrasia's house rules and it hits the vibe I am going for near perfectly and still feels like and for the most part is d&d.

Sacrosanct

#8
September 16, 2013, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;691570Killing any of the "sacred cows" of D&D, then the game is no longer D&D...

This started with 3e, and was exemplified with 4e...

Yes, there are certain things that identify with D&D, for better or for worse, and once you do radical changes, you end up with just another fantasy RPG.  4e is a big example of this.  Using the same title and pronouns didn't make it still be D&D, imo.  Just like New Coke wasn't Coke.

So yeah, there are some things I could probably do without (like alignment), but those are things that make D&D what it is, and different from just any other fantasy RPG.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Gronan of Simmerya

#9
September 16, 2013, 10:23:17 PM
What do I think D&D would be better without?

Most players.

What else?

3rd and 4th edition.  3rd especially.... take out all the "un fun" limitations on magic users and wonder why magic users outshine everything else... way to go, dipshits.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Arkansan

#10
September 16, 2013, 10:26:41 PM
So I guess this gets into another question, how much can you house rule before your playing another game? Also is it really a question of how much, or a question of what?

One of the main reasons I play od&d or some variation there of is because I find it exceptionally easy to house rule.

Rincewind1

#11
September 16, 2013, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: Arkansan;691583So I guess this gets into another question, how much can you house rule before your playing another game? Also is it really a question of how much, or a question of what?

One of the main reasons I play od&d or some variation there of is because I find it exceptionally easy to house rule.

The answer is: None, except when comparing measures of your Nerd Cred, then any changes.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Imp

#12
September 16, 2013, 10:33:21 PM
I'd be open to a whole new magic system if it were any good. I tend to like alternate caster classes.

Also, doop de doo, alignment.

Gronan of Simmerya

#14
September 16, 2013, 10:54:11 PM
Quote from: Arkansan;691583So I guess this gets into another question, how much can you house rule before your playing another game? Also is it really a question of how much, or a question of what?

One of the main reasons I play od&d or some variation there of is because I find it exceptionally easy to house rule.

"Decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way!"  - Gary Gygax, Dungeons & Dragons, Vol. 3 "The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures," page 36.  (TSR, 1974)

I wish the monster and treasure tables had been labeled "SUGGESTED" or "EXAMPLE".  To let people know it was OK to eliminate "Goblins" and put in 'Boggles' instead, for instance.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.
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