HERESY THREAD: Sacred cows that you think D&D would be better without.

[Omega]

I also dislike, what some may call, "disassociated mechanics". D&D has a few to begin with, but I just find it odd when I get a damage bonus from my charisma... I think charisma could give an advantage in combat (like taunting or intimidating an enemy), but going straight to "add your Cha mod to damage" seems silly (or just lazy design).

An actual*sacred cow I'd love to alter is the six attributes. I think there should be a "perception" stat added, and charisma should be dropped (use Wisdom when dealing with social interactions).

What edition had CHA give a damage bonus?

Unearthed Arcana added a 7th attribute, Comeliness. Essentially a looks stat. Never caught on. Star Frontiers had 8 stats.

[S'mon]

An actual*sacred cow I'd love to alter is the six attributes. I think there should be a "perception" stat added, and charisma should be dropped (use Wisdom when dealing with social interactions).

I'd like a Perception stat, probably Willpower rather than Wisdom, and drop Intelligence, a stat which interacts weirdly with the player's own actual intelligence. I'm ok with Charisma as a stat but if designing from the ground up I'd probably only have physical stats + Willpower & Perception.

[Opaopajr]

What edition had CHA give a damage bonus?

Unearthed Arcana added a 7th attribute, Comeliness. Essentially a looks stat. Never caught on. Star Frontiers had 8 stats.

4e Paladin immediately comes to mind.

Haven't played 4e yet? Pretty immediate issue garnering complaint.

I had an Avenger who used Wis mod to gain damage bonus. My warhammer was merely decoration as I used it for its base weapon damage and relied on racking up damage with my Wis mod. The extra funny thing is, I barely had the strength to use my warhammer as my STR was so low.

I could only wear cloth armor (because the point of an Avenger is to take advantage of being hit in battle) and could barely lift my warhammer otherwise i would be encumbered. But without my warhammer "talisman" i would have had difficulty using my ranged faith-based at wills to their fullest damage -- plus Wis mod damage. So the ranged attacks my Avenger relied on in turn relied my struggling to lift up a warhammer while curse at my enemies.

I thought it was funny. Goes well with chaise lounge Martini Warlord. 4e is more surrealist cartoon D&D than anything that came before it.

[Omega]

That is just... ooog - Funny - but... ooog...

No. 4e is so far the only edition now I have not had any experience with yet.

Stories like this do not exactly help engender any urge to try it either.

Sounds somewhat like the Neverwinter PC games where you would take a level in Monk to offset a level in Bard which boosted your levels in Sorcerer so you could cast Bears Strength to give your levels in Barbarian an extra point of damage... (No it didnt actually work that way. But there are some oddball "builds" suggested that get convoluted in their reasonings.

[Haffrung]

Definitely agree on replacing Wisdom with Willpower and adding a Perception stat. The difference between Wis and Int has never been clear, and the lack of a Perception attribute has led to all sorts of awkward kludges with skills and racial abilities.

[Bloody Stupid Johnson]

4e Paladin immediately comes to mind.

Haven't played 4e yet? Pretty immediate issue garnering complaint.

I had an Avenger who used Wis mod to gain damage bonus. My warhammer was merely decoration as I used it for its base weapon damage and relied on racking up damage with my Wis mod. The extra funny thing is, I barely had the strength to use my warhammer as my STR was so low.

The last time I tried 4E, game day where they released MM II I think? I went to the FLGS, (now largely deceased but raised from the dead as a comic shop mostly), got handed a dwarf paladin. IIRC he added +CHA on melee attacks, and had an power of "Divine Might" or somesuch that let him also add +STR mod to damage 1/encounter. Its a weird system.

[Archangel Fascist]

Definitely agree on replacing Wisdom with Willpower and adding a Perception stat. The difference between Wis and Int has never been clear, and the lack of a Perception skill has led to all sorts of awkward kludges with skills and racial abilities.

You might also consider Cunning, as with the new Star Wars game.

[jibbajibba]

You might also consider Cunning, as with the new Star Wars game.

One of my games ran Prowess, Lore and Guile  and had some special powers that modified specific actions like Tough could take extra damage, etc etc

[Arduin]

I'll start us out with a big one: the d20.  I hate rolling the d20 because it has such a wide range of numbers that success or failure is often based on luck rather than your character's ability (a 20 is likely to be a success and a 1 a failure no matter your character's in-game skill).

That stems from a GM who has players make rolls when it isn't necessary.  Switching dice type doesn't really help as it always boils down to what Odds are assigned.  If a GM decides that you have a 25% chance of success, it matters not that you roll a D20 or 3D6.

[Exploderwizard]

That stems from a GM who has players make rolls when it isn't necessary.  Switching dice type doesn't really help as it always boils down to what Odds are assigned.  If a GM decides that you have a 25% chance of success, it matters not that you roll a D20 or 3D6.

Quite so. Too many die rolls are naturally going to result in an abundance of failures unless the odds against failure were too miniscule to bother rolling for in the first place.

The root problem is the belief that nothing meaningful can take place in the game if it isn't rolled for. Thats bullshit. The dice are there to determine outcome when there is a decent degree of doubt and the action is meaningful.