Quote from: Gold Roger;782837I guess I have a somewhat odd way of looking at D&D style fantasy, as I am particularly drawn to the oddness/weirdness of it.

I do enjoy designing 0e worlds based on the assumptions in the rules. I agree the oddness or "non-realness" is a feature, not a bug.

I use this approach with The Mechanoids as well which has been great fun.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;782750For a D&D variant, LotFP is actually pretty deadly and hardcore (Sneak attacks from a mid-level Specialist can do up to x6 damage, IIRC). A house rule to the effect of "Any attack with a deadly weapon made from surprise requires a death save or you get snuffed right then and there" would not be too out of place.

However... that sword cuts both ways, as it would apply to PCs too. Could result in some pretty short campaigns.

Yes, "Death Save" does cut both ways in my campaigns. It makes social reaction rolls, integration into societal norms, and sensible precautions 'a good thing'. Being an asshole, flippant to authority, and wallowing in violent squalor tends to raise your 'surprise! violent demise' %.

Lone wolves don't work so well in my games; can't stay awake forever watching out for everything by yourself. Those players make their own Nightmares on Elm Street. And without my lifting a finger.


Give your players choices, let them savor consequences. :cool:

Quote from: daniel_ream;782953And yet Pathfinder.

What about Pathfinder?

That system, in my observation, is likewise not written so that solo characters can take on a couple hundred foes at once.

Quote from: Ravenswing;783048What about Pathfinder?

That system, in my observation, is likewise not written so that solo characters can take on a couple hundred foes at once.

I can't speak to that, although I can ask the local  PF buildmonkeys whether that's relatively easy under the current system.

What you said is that "...a whole lot of gamers, demonstrably, aren't enthusiastic about game systems being written to presume superhuman characters."  The popularity of 3.x and Pathfinder would indicate that a whole lot of gamers demonstrably want exactly that.

The relative popularity of low-PC-power "gritty" RPGs and games like PF that allow, encourage and arguably require superhuman characters indicates, I think, that rather more gamers want power fantasy in their RPGs than not.  cf. Your post about leadership in superhero RPGs.

Quote from: daniel_ream;783079What you said is that "...a whole lot of gamers, demonstrably, aren't enthusiastic about game systems being written to presume superhuman characters."  The popularity of 3.x and Pathfinder would indicate that a whole lot of gamers demonstrably want exactly that.

I don't think you quite understand, unless it's just that you and I have profound disconnects about what we mean by "superhuman."

Quote from: Ravenswing;783358I don't think you quite understand, unless it's just that you and I have profound disconnects about what we mean by "superhuman."

Its not hard he is just saying that Pathfinder has basically superhuman characters from fairly low level and yet Pathfinder is very very popular so it would seem that superhuman is actually quite popular based on the most popular fantasy RPGs.

Quote from: fuseboy;782541Played Lamentations of the Flame Princess for the first time on Saturday (a player in Kiel running Zak's Red and Pleasant Land), and found it pretty tight.

Then a weird thing happened, and I wonder what other GMs do in this situation:

I'm in a room that's thick with NPCs, including a few really high-value targets (e.g. monarchy and so on).  Nobody's looking at me, and I'm in the back of the room with a light crossbow.

The thought crosses my mind - I probably can't kill anybody in here with this weapon.  I can aim it at the queen and actually hit, and the likelihood of killing her is basically zero.

The crossbow did d6 damage, and the queen's probably (total guess) 40-60 hit points or so.  As a fighter (someone who specializes in killing people), I might as well be hitting her with a shoe.

Even if my character was a 9th level specialist with a 4x damage multiple on sneak attacks, I can expect to do about 14 points of damage, which will get her attention but hardly kill her.

Isn't this a bit weird?

The GM is of course free to make any ruling he likes, but allowing fighters to kill people outright seems to erode the value of the the specialist's sneak attack.

Do you accept this as a quirk of the system, chiefly designed to make combat grind out long enough for some tactical play to unfold?  Do you give some alternate ruling?

I accept it, in its original context, as a simple way to give characters high survival potential in a combat-heavy game without making them nigh untouchable. Unlike in other systems, a high-level figure gets gradually more vulnerable to deadly harm, a weakening that can be observed and so presents real choices, rather than being perpetually subject to risk of sudden death on the next toss of the dice.

Not familiar with the Lamentations rules set, but there is no rule in old D&D requiring a queen to have massive hp. By the old concept of fairness, anything that can bypass points to kill an npc, can be used against player-characters as well.

Just bear that two-way street in mind when you consider allowing one-shot kills because of condition X!

Quote from: Ladybird;782589You're armed with a deadly weapon and you've got the drop on them. Forget hit points; if you want to go for a killing blow, do it. Kill them, and face the consequences.

If players don't want their characters throats slit, perhaps they should take care to ensure they're never in a situation where that is likely.

And do what, be accountants? They are adventurers. Ones with very short careers if the GM is using your suggestion. I suppose there are players that might hop on-board that train, but I would not be among them. But different strokes and all...

Quote from: Tetsubo;783488And do what, be accountants? They are adventurers.

Yeah, I guess that career path does sort of come with the expectation that sometimes you will end up in situations where you might get your throat slit.

Oddly enough the KO% from 2e's Punching/Wrestling tables are rather useful for a "Surprise! Violent Demise" check.

Roll to see if their in-town carelessness, or hostility, that day blowbacks on them on AC 10, roll off on the KO% (usually something low around 5%), then finally have the player roll a Death Save. The greater the carelessness or hostility just lowers the THAC0, which gets you to the higher KO%s. A bit involved, but only something to whip out when players are playing without much caution.

Like an extra wandering encounter for the brash.