Quote from: Ulairi;1036531General game stores? You just mean hobby stores?

Barns and Noble has had rpg books forever.

I mean places like GamesWorld here in Australia, which normally just has puzzles, monopoly, car models and so on. Those places had D&D back in the 80s, had some WW games briefly in the 90s, but nothing since. Most kept the polyhedral dice, but had no actual rpgs. Now in the last year D&D5e is up there in the glass cabinet under the counter. That'll be customer demand, obviously when enough people come in and ask for something, they start stocking it.

When I was about 13yo I briefly lived next door to a children's bookstore, they had AD&D1e but no other rpgs. My local library had a children's floor, they didn't have any rpgs but did have Fighting Fantasy and Choose Your Own Adventure books, and I did actually use their counter to advertise for players when I was I guess 14-15yo. That was the early 80s. I think Borders had some D&D4e books back before it collapsed here in Australia. But basically bookstores haven't had rpgs here since the 1980s. Likewise libraries.

So the books appearing in a general games store is significant, here.

And as Bill said, if you run an open game table of any edition of D&D you don't have trouble getting players. I never really had trouble anyway, but it's getting easier still now. I've previously posted about two game clubs in the central city, their tables are always full; one is all rpgs, the other is 50-50 rpgs and wargames/CCGs. The first charges for their tables so they've packed as many as they can in there; I'm happy to pay, it's $10 for a small and $20 for a large table, I usually spend well over $20 on dinner and snacks anyway, but it's just too noisy. And we're usually the oldest guys there, there are lots of people of uni age. Well, uni is where most of us really played like maniacs, so nothing's changed there.

What's different from when I first gamed is when people start. In the 80s we started as kids, like the famous scene in ET. Now they're starting in uni. Wizards doesn't seem to be aiming at 13 year olds, still less 10 year olds. If kids are into it, they're brought into it by their parents.

Kyle,

It may very well be significant in Australia, but in the U.S., I've been seeing D&D books in those kinds of stores since the 3E days.

How big is Magic: the Gathering in Australia? I think WotC's clout has something to do with broader distribution, as well as the game's popularity.

(No, I'm not denying 5E is a hit. I'm just interested in seeing the whole picture.)

The starter set is at Walmart. I'd say that's not niche

Quote from: Mistwell;1036585The starter set is at Walmart.

Now that's evidence of a broadened market. As are the D&D T-shirts I think I saw at Target.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1036582It may very well be significant in Australia, but in the U.S., I've been seeing D&D books in those kinds of stores since the 3E days.

In any market, the key would not be the specific stores, but increased numbers of stores. It was just at this and that place, now it's at the other place, too. That means something.

QuoteHow big is Magic: the Gathering in Australia? I think WotC's clout has something to do with broader distribution, as well as the game's popularity.

Pretty big. The place we go to does a lot of tournament play. Other CCGs, too. It's successful enough that they had to make a rule about people showing up just to buy and sell cards. Some guys were taking up whole tables just to sell stuff. The store gets a commission, or something, I dunno, I don't play them so I wasn't paying attention, lots of drama though. Point is, MtG is big enough for that to be an issue.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1036580What's different from when I first gamed is when people start. In the 80s we started as kids, like the famous scene in ET. Now they're starting in uni. Wizards doesn't seem to be aiming at 13 year olds, still less 10 year olds. If kids are into it, they're brought into it by their parents.

Yes, that's a good point. D&D isn't marketed at all to kids these days, unlike in the Mentzer/Elmore era.

Quote from: Mistwell;1036585The starter set is at Walmart. I'd say that's not niche

the 4E redbox was there too back in the day.

I think it's always been easier to get a table of D&D playing than any other RPG. I think getting a table playing 5E is much easier than it was during the 4E era. I don't think the 5E tide is lifting all boats and I think that's sad.

In Canada, there was always one or two D&D books stuffed away somewhere in the big-box bookstores. But last time I was up it was way more, and much more prominently displayed.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037234In Canada, there was always one or two D&D books stuffed away somewhere in the big-box bookstores. But last time I was up it was way more, and much more prominently displayed.

There's pretty much just Chapters/Indigo now and yes they do have some D&D stuff.

Quote from: Krimson;1035988I had thought it was more popular. Now I am not so sure. I walked into Sentry Box today which apparently is now a Warhammer store. D&D 5e is relegated to one display overshadowed by Pathfinder and even Starfinder and old school material seems nonexistent now.

Quote from: Krimson;1036095It's been a while since I visited due to second and third winter, but this time they completely reorganized. They had a consistent organization for several years. It was pretty shocking to see Warhammer take over much of the floor space though, with D&D relegated to one display. Of course there are also the board and card games. The way it is now, I really don't see much reason to go down there. Rarely do I leave without at least picking up a book.

The Sentry Box has a whole shelf of all the WotC 5E books. I have it from the horse's mouth that they've sold a ridiculous amounts of 5E books in the last 12 months, more than they've ever sold of any edition of D&D.

I'm not sure what you're expecting to see. WotC has released very few books for 5E. The Sentry Box carries a dozen or more copies of every one of those books and constantly restocks them. As for OSR stuff, new releases are shelved to the left of the counter, where they display all new games. Older books are in the books section at the back of the store, where they shelf all RPG books now. They carry everything Goodman Games publishes, including everything in the DCC line. They carry Frog God books. I've seen the White Hack and Metamorphosis Alpha. Barbarian Conqueror King. Lamentations of the Flame Princes. And of course, they have thousands of OOP books from every edition of D&D and other RPG lines.

They stock every English-language RPG book that gets retail distribution. I'd be astonished if there's a brick and mortar store in the world that has more RPG books than the Sentry Box.

Quote from: Haffrung;1037314I'm not sure what you're expecting to see.

I wasn't expecting to see half the main floor repurposed for Warhammer. I've been a customer since 1985, so I'm a little bit familiar with their layout. If you go right now, even Spacefinder has a bigger display than 5e.

Yes. Even in my small redneck town it's popular with teens again. Last year I saw a kid in the cafeteria at school showing off a fucking METAL 1974-style multi-level megadungeon in a three-ring binder. It warmed my heart. It's not quite 1981 but the long Winter has ended.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1037406Yes. Even in my small redneck town it's popular with teens again. Last year I saw a kid in the cafeteria at school showing off a fucking METAL 1974-style multi-level megadungeon in a three-ring binder. It warmed my heart. It's not quite 1981 but the long Winter has ended.

Awesome!!!

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1037406Yes. Even in my small redneck town it's popular with teens again. Last year I saw a kid in the cafeteria at school showing off a fucking METAL 1974-style multi-level megadungeon in a three-ring binder. It warmed my heart. It's not quite 1981 but the long Winter has ended.

My wife is from the mid-West (Fort Wayne Indiana) and in her town of 250, 000 there is a lot of rpg activity, and from what I could tell it was mostly 5e.

Quote from: Krimson;1037336I wasn't expecting to see half the main floor repurposed for Warhammer. I've been a customer since 1985, so I'm a little bit familiar with their layout. If you go right now, even Spacefinder has a bigger display than 5e.

WotC have released something like 11 books for 5E. The Sentry Box carries 10 or more copies of every book, and they all fit on one shelf. So what more, exactly, do you expect them to display? Giant cut-outs of the Monster Manual?