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Author Topic: Why the hate for RPG companies?  (Read 5727 times)

VectorSigma

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Why the hate for RPG companies?
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2009, 10:34:31 PM »
@Blackhand - in fairness to aramis, GW does have separate tournament guidelines for Grand Touraments (not what aramis was apparently talking about) and sponsored Rogue Trader tournaments (probably not what aramis was talking about).
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aramis

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« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2009, 10:44:28 PM »
Quote from: Blackhand;346593
This all a big pile of bullshit, really.  To the point I'd call you liar, if it didn't seem just so misinformed.

For one thing, then-current?  That's fucking retarded, I have never EVER heard of that.  That sounds like a non GW tournament organizers rules, especially considering what you said about land raiders.

Third Party models have always been banned at official GW events.


The phrasing "then-current" means that when it was stated, it was "Current". But I should know better than to expect even a basic understanding of English around here.

GW has always had specific rules for running official tournaments. As you yourself admit then immediately self contradict.

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« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2009, 10:44:28 PM »
Quote from: J Arcane;346590
There are, however, a not inappreciable number of people who do exactly that, not necessarily with yours, but with many others' products, which is why these days, the market consequences that should come with poor and consumer-hostile actions, have a habit of not actually coming true.  And there's a just-as-vocal segment of the internet population who seek to encourage and enforce a kind of uncritical forced optimism, and thus further prevent any serious consequences of such actions.  

So...I did not disagree with this...so...we are agreeing?
Quote from: J Arcane;346590

There's a recent photo that's become rather infamous, a picture of the userlist for a Steam group boycotting Modern Warfare 2, where over half the list is currently online playing the game.

Actually...that was what I was saying...obviously I was not clear enough.
Quote from: J Arcane;346590



Thing is though, what a business might think is a "legitimate business decision" and what the consumer thinks is best for him are not necessarily going to agree.  


I was not saying they should. However, a well run business does not make a legitimate business decision that destroys its customer base. Before you froth at the mouth, I said well run, not that it does not happen. If you truly take actions in business that alienates your customers then you will soon be out of business. If you instead, provide a service that they desire within a framework that is sustainable, then you have a business. Now, if you make a business call like "I am going to move towards supporting 4e" and your customer base says "No way!" and backs it up by not purchasing, then you either need to regrow your customer base (very expensive, difficult to do often) or go out of business. Now, on the other side of this if you make the above decision and rabid anti-4e boy comes out of the wood work frothing with spittle laden outrage at the contemptible presumption on the part of HIS game company...well, someone is going to be pissed off every time. Note, I am specifically not talking about the legitimate customer decision not to purchase any products from that company due to a shift away from their preferred material.
Quote from: J Arcane;346590


Especially when the values system is as such that it views any action whatsoever, regardless of consequences, is "legitimate" as long as it makes them a quick buck.

This is so...front-loaded with assumptions as to make it nigh useless. Yes, as stated, IF the company is making all its decisions based on what will make it a "quick buck" it will lead to troubles but that comes around to what I was saying earlier about "well run" businesses.
Quote from: J Arcane;346590

We just went through a massive economic crash as a result of a whole lot of those sorts of "legitimate business decisions".

No, really, the way you are casting this discussion, it was not legitimate business decisions, at least not in my opinion nor in the opinions of any of my business or economics profs. They were very risky, edgy business decisions. If they had not been bailed out, they would have ended those companies.

However, this is getting kind of close to political debate. To steer it back on topic, I would say, in plainer English, that there are legitimate customer reactions to business decisions of a company and there are poor reactions. A separate issue is whether they are deserved or not, and this can only be determined on the actual actions of the companies involved. A third issue you raised would be whether a company's decisions are reprehensible. It would seem you are saying that all companies, regardless of their action or motives, are wrong and evil and out to bankrupt any who purchase their products. Do I understand your position? I would argue that his is not the case. Some companies yes, just as their are some people who will kill you to watch you die, but to paint is as though all companies function this way seems disingenuous.
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Blackhand

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« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2009, 12:44:03 AM »
Quote from: aramis;346603
The phrasing "then-current" means that when it was stated, it was "Current". But I should know better than to expect even a basic understanding of English around here.

GW has always had specific rules for running official tournaments. As you yourself admit then immediately self contradict.

I didn't admit anything, you are trying to put words into my mouth to defend yourself.  These things are locally run, that's what I FUCKING SAID. There isn't an overarching rule guide that bans everything or even anything you said like that.

This is the rule packet for the 2009 Origins Rogue Trader tournament. Download it and read it.

Point 3) of the packet states:  All of the current valid Games Workshop codexes will be used. This includes the following: Chaos Demons; Chaos Space Marines; Daemonhunters;
Dark Eldar; Eldar; Imperial Guard; Necrons; Orks; Space Marines (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Generic); Tau Empire; Tyranids, and;
Witch Hunters. Imperial codexes can use Daemonhunter and/or Witch Hunters as per the rules given in their appropriate books.

Note this states CODEX, not MODELS.

Quote from: VectorSigma;346598
@Blackhand - in fairness to aramis, GW does have separate tournament guidelines for Grand Touraments (not what aramis was apparently talking about) and sponsored Rogue Trader tournaments (probably not what aramis was talking about).

I've had it with the bullshit.  Everything he said was bullshit.

This is a locally run tournament.  Even Rogue Trader tournaments and Hard Boyz tournaments are left to the discretion of the organizers.

Find something somewhere on the fucking internet that states otherwise.  Even each Games Day has a different rule packet, and THEY NEVER BAR GW MODELS no matter how fucking old they are.

I call fucking bullshit.  I'm tired of hearing this shit, when people believe crap that is blatantly made up, for seemingly no other reason than to be on the hate-bandwagon with the cool kidz.

If anything in that story was true, this much is - you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and you are talking out your ass.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 12:48:18 AM by Blackhand »
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aramis

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« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2009, 01:48:52 AM »
Tourney in question was at a GW funded mini con, run by a GW employee, with guidelines from GW Corporate.  Prizes provided by GW.

Can't believe it, TOUGH SHIT. Your incredulity is YOUR PROBLEM. Probably cause your head is so far up some GW arse you can't see daylight.

Kyle Aaron

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« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2009, 02:18:18 AM »
There is no hate for rpg companies by gamers as a whole, who are largely indifferent to and ignorant of them. Like when I tried to impress my gamer friend by name-dropping a game authour I'd been in correspondence with, he said, "who?" and I pointed to the authour of the book in his hand, the book he'd GMed from for the last year.

The hate appears on forums. And discussion forums are largely populated by - let's be brutally honest with ourselves - people with too much time on their hands. Hate keeps you busy.
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Blackhand

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« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2009, 02:37:51 AM »
Quote from: aramis;346633
Tourney in question was at a GW funded mini con, run by a GW employee, with guidelines from GW Corporate.  Prizes provided by GW.

Can't believe it, TOUGH SHIT. Your incredulity is YOUR PROBLEM. Probably cause your head is so far up some GW arse you can't see daylight.

I can't believe this because it's not true.  GW funded mini con?  Which one?  They don't fund any mini cons.  You are either lying or mistaken.

Run by a GW employee?  What?  The only tournaments run by GW employees are ones at GW stores.  No other, not the Rogue Traders and not the Hard Boyz.

Not even the world campaigns such as Eye of Terror.
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Hairfoot

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« Reply #82 on: December 05, 2009, 01:12:43 AM »
Quote from: Blackhand;346627
Point 3) of the packet states:  All of the current valid Games Workshop codexes will be used.

[/B]

Tsk.  Everyone knows the plural is "codices".

Blackhand

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« Reply #83 on: December 05, 2009, 01:59:38 AM »
Quote from: Hairfoot;346755
Tsk.  Everyone knows the plural is "codices".


Actually the proper plural form is 'codeci'.

Neat huh?  You still knew what I meant.
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Hairfoot

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« Reply #84 on: December 05, 2009, 02:10:24 AM »
Quote from: Blackhand;346765
Actually the proper plural form is 'codeci'.

Them's fightin words.  I'm pretty sure it's not "codeci".  Where'd you get that?

Bedrockbrendan

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« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2009, 10:27:43 AM »
I have to wonder if this really boils down to there being more RPG forums and forum members than wargames. I don't know the answer to that off hand, but knowing both wargamers and role players, I don't really see that much of a difference in terms of knowledge and maturity. It may be that role players have more of an emotional investment in the game, I don't know. But if that is the case, I suspect it has more to do with the nature of RPGs v. the nature of Wargamers, than the nature of Roleplayers or wargamers. I would be cautious about making broad generalizations or judgments of any group.

Blackhand

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« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2009, 10:48:02 AM »
Quote from: Hairfoot;346767
Them's fightin words.  I'm pretty sure it's not "codeci".  Where'd you get that?


To be strictly correct with Latin declention you have seven cases to determine the form.

Codex - Nominative singular - 'There is a Codex on the shelf.'
Codeces - Nominative plural - 'There are two Codices on the shelf'
Codecis - Genitive - 'the Codicis FAQ'
Codeci - Dative - 'I gave the Codici to him'
and some other stuff I don't really remember.

I just say Codexes though ;)
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Philotomy Jurament

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« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2009, 11:20:38 AM »
According to the New Oxford American Dictionary (2nd edition), in American English, either "codices" or "codexes" is a proper plural form for the word, codex.  Since we're conversing in English, I'd say you're both right.

Anyone have the (British) OED or NODE handy?  I'm curious whether both those plural forms are listed as correct, there, as well.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 11:24:22 AM by Philotomy Jurament »
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J Arcane

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Why the hate for RPG companies?
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2009, 12:37:33 PM »
Quote from: aramis;346633
Tourney in question was at a GW funded mini con, run by a GW employee, with guidelines from GW Corporate.  Prizes provided by GW.

Can't believe it, TOUGH SHIT. Your incredulity is YOUR PROBLEM. Probably cause your head is so far up some GW arse you can't see daylight.


Some people just can't see the nose in front of their face.  That policy's been a known element for years now, and I mean, come on, this is the same company that just last month fired a guy for admitting he'd bought out-of-print GW books on eBay.
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