Some games are notorious: rules-heavy, or offensive, or just plain bad. Have you ever knowingly chosen one of them and actually played through a session or more? How did it go?
I sometimes the urge to get a campaign of Dangerous Journeys started, but don't get further than reading the rulebook and scratching my head again.
Early 80s. AFTERMATH. Me and my friend both bought the game. Loved the subject matter. (After the nukes fly -- serious -- no Gamma World crap). Our friends said, "No fucking way." We literally grinded through it and constantly talked it up.
A fucking disaster. Only when I was young...
If I had a copy and didn't have a bunch of other things to run, I'd seriously consider giving Cyborg Commandos a spin.
I have a copy. Looks unplayable to me but my copy has some character sheets in it so someone must have given it a go.
I ran D&D 3.5.
It wasn't so bad though, since I banned all the classes from the core book and allowed XPH/ToB/MoI classes only.
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1015700If I had a copy and didn't have a bunch of other things to run, I'd seriously consider giving Cyborg Commandos a spin.
I owned a copy of CC once. Rules made little sense and the setting was absurd. I had high hopes, but couldn't force myself to actually play it.
Well, I looked over it uncritically at around age 16 and it seemed pretty cool. I'm sure I had fun making up characters. :)
And this is the thread for games you really shouldn't, but would anyway.
Dragon Lords of Melnibone I was a dig Elric fan, D&D 3.x was what people were playing. It was awful.
Aftermath! and Space Opera were actally fun once we got through the hours of character generation. But I never want to make a character for either of those games again.
Not knowingly, but accidentally. Because when you do, you end up with madness like this. (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?38229-What-Non-Star-Wars-System-for-Star-Wars)
Space Opera...wow haven't thought of that in year. I still have my copies. I need to drag yhem.out for a trip down memory lane.
Quote from: The_Shadow;1015656Some games are notorious: rules-heavy, or offensive, or just plain bad. Have you ever knowingly chosen one of them and actually played through a session or more? How did it go?
I sometimes the urge to get a campaign of Dangerous Journeys started, but don't get further than reading the rulebook and scratching my head again.
Offensive games? Yes, I've bought a couple that probably would be considered so, purely because the RPG Puritans are a stupid bunch that deserves prodding (but not of the kind they might like;)).
In fact, I posted an interview with Desborough on my blog after he published the Gor RPG, and yes, I've purchased it:).
I also ran a few Gor sessions. Since I didn't like the d6 system, though, I got way more mileage out of the systemless Encyclopedia of Gor. However, I adopted his idea to restore Hero Points if the players behave in a way that fits their Caste, so the game itself wasn't a total loss:p!
It went just fine, my players not being a prudish sort. In fact, most of my sessions do feature sex, and using sex to obtain what you want, so that was nothing new:D!
But let me tell you, there's a reason why slaves in some Gorean cities are forbidden to touch weapons. I guess they will be forbidden in the cities we visited, too, due to the bodycount, if the authorities ever guess who's responsible for most of it;).
Then again, it wasn't out of some perverse enjoyment of "how offensive this setting is". I've been a kinda-sorta fan of the setting for years. (Though admittedly, I had only read the first couple of books, and the setting managed to grow up on me before I realized there was more).
It being offensive to some people I dislike was just a bonus:D!
Quote from: Cave Bear;1015717I ran D&D 3.5.
It wasn't so bad though, since I banned all the classes from the core book and allowed XPH/ToB/MoI classes only.
I did the same thing, except I only allowed TOB classes, Bard and another not-full spellcaster, so it doesn't count, IMO;). It went fine for a couple sessions, but the most fun part was in the players meeting my version of Tucker's Kobolds.
I'll cop to a version of this, though I don't do it out of any sense of perverse enjoyment of badness. I think 1E Chivalry and Sorcery is such a great game that I just can't walk away from it. But it also a toxic waste disposal site of indecipherably complex rules, mostly printed in 6 point font. It is pretty shocking to anyone who hasn't prepared themselves with decades of meditation on the game's finer qualities.
Out of sheer masochism? The only thing close was reading F.A.T.A.L. wondering if there was an actual game in there if you avoided the infamous tables.
I thought about Cyborg Commando. I don't know where the hate for the idea of the CC's comes from. It's no different than Maximum Metal for Cyberpunk 2020 or Full Conversion Borgs in Rifts. They're all brains in robot bodies.
We actually played AFTERMATH but I broke laughing after reading the character generation of SPACE OPERA.
When I was young and stupid, I tried to make sense of Cyborg Commando and run it. Failed, obviously. Never again.
No, not intentionally anyway. I mean I've played games once or twice before deciding they were beyond redemption, but we stopped after finding that. I've read a lot more games that were not worth playing.
I've played many rules heavy games, but I like some rules heavy games. I've played unpopular games, but again I actually like them.
I have no idea why one would play a game they disliked I have better things to do with my time.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1015778I'll cop to a version of this, though I don't do it out of any sense of perverse enjoyment of badness. I think 1E Chivalry and Sorcery is such a great game that I just can't walk away from it. But it also a toxic waste disposal site of indecipherably complex rules, mostly printed in 6 point font. It is pretty shocking to anyone who hasn't prepared themselves with decades of meditation on the game's finer qualities.
This I've done. There are some poorly written games with cool concepts that make it worth the trouble, at least for awhile.
Honestly, if you can make yourself read it, and are smart enough to just skip the unplayable stuff like the mass combat system, 1E C+S is very worth your while. The magic system is bat shit crazy, in the best way; combat is really interesting and fun; lots of social caste structure to give shape to your campaign setting. It is just a cool system. But it is super hard to understand how it is supposed to work, so most people just give up. A classic ca. 1980 rules-heavy game...
Quote from: The_Shadow;1015656Some games are notorious: rules-heavy, or offensive, or just plain bad. Have you ever knowingly chosen one of them and actually played through a session or more? How did it go?
Not a game per se, but a system-- GURPS 3e Vehicles (and robots). For a while in the 90s (before I had my interest in complex games completely burned out of me by D&D 3e) I really enjoyed how this system let you calculate vehicle size and weight and performance with a semblance of realism (or at least verisimilitude). I knew darn well that the 20 hours it took to design a futuristic hover-tanks and spaceships would never pay off for the players, but it filled a need to have something that systematic.
Well, then I guess my time got precious or something. So no, never again. Helped my friend GM a sci fi Hero System game recently and then helped design a homebrew Mad Max-style game, and both of them were as vaguely-entertaining favors, not something I'd personally choose to do.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1015717I ran D&D 3.5.
It wasn't so bad though, since I banned all the classes from the core book and allowed XPH/ToB/MoI classes only.
The difference with D&D 3e is that it does play (yes, despite what I said just a moment ago). The very reason that it had all these balance issues and problems where you scratch your head and wonder how they missed it in play-testing and so forth is because you can people played the playtests like they were playing 2e AD&D and it worked for quite a while. So apparently if you play like that, the game works (for a while, and at certain levels, and so forth). You just roll up some direct-damage-heavy wizards, some cure-heavy clerics, maybe some fighters and rogues that you think are vaguely optimized (I know first time I played a fighter I figured out reach weapon, combat reflexes and quickdraw, which seamed awfully awesome until I saw what a spiked-chain trip build would do) and go play low-level adventures against mostly humanoid opponents and it worked--probably not better than the heavily modded 2e games we'd played the previous year. Certainly not the hope that 3e was the perfectly designed system which 'fixed' whatever we thought was broken about the game, and certainly all the issues with the game were certainly in our future. But the game played.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1015717I ran D&D 3.5.
It wasn't so bad though, since I banned all the classes from the core book and allowed XPH/ToB/MoI classes only.
It's not too bad if:
-The DM knows the game well.
-You're at low levels.
-You use the Mongoose Conan d20 instead (2nd edition), far and away the best 3.5ed hack. Still 3.5ed though so expect a lot of the standard warts except everything magical has been replaced with a far better system.
The GM should always be able to include players who can't keep track of rules and translate what they say they want to do IC into rules terms and tell them what to roll. Some games work better that way as it keeps the wizard behind the curtain and helps with immersion, with some games the GM has to really bite a lot off in terms of rules knowledge in order to do this role.
I tried playing Aftermath in the late 80's. But I never made it beyond the character generation. It was just too much.
I consider it as a missed opportunity. Because I really loved cheesey 80's post apocalypse movies like 'World Gone Wild' starring Bruce Dern.
No, but I did win one as a prize at a con once. I got "Best & Fairest GM", and they gave me a little trophy and said, "you were the best GM so we gave you the worst roleplaying game."
HoL.
I discarded it shortly after.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1016724No, but I did win one as a prize at a con once. I got "Best & Fairest GM", and they gave me a little trophy and said, "you were the best GM so we gave you the worst roleplaying game."
HoL.
I discarded it shortly after.
All I know of that is there was a time when liking it on TBP showed how edgy you were.
I don't believe HoL is actually intended to be played.
It predated storygames in that respect.
Uh huh. :rolleyes:
Q: Have you ever chosen a "bad" game out of sheer masochism?
A: No, but I have tried running games I didn't care for with the hopes that I could turn players on to better games later. Never really worked out that way, so now I only offer to run games I personally enjoy and have interest in running. If someone asks me to run another game, the answer is no, but I might be dubiously willing to try it as a player if someone else runs the show.
I did an interest check for a pbp game of Fantasy Wargaming. Thankfully I thought better of it before starting actual recruitment. Probably as close as I've come.
I also had the ARIA books, but of course I never ran it. No one actually did, because it was unplayable.
I have a big stack of Hero 5ed books that I wonder I must have been on something to buy at one point.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1017212I also had the ARIA books, but of course I never ran it. No one actually did, because it was unplayable.
And unreadable to boot. I still can't git rid. Mint condition and yet no interest on ebay. Absolutley nuthin.
When I was younger, so much younger than today ...
I've played Aftermath (2 sessions, I think), The Morrow Project (1 session, didn't even make it character gen) and Fantasy Wargaming (a whopping 4 sessions, ISTR).
More recently I ran a campaign of Deathwatch. Not necessarily bad, but I was fighting against the system, not with it!
And does Nephilim count? The game system is fine, but what do you actually DO in it? What does a campaign look like?
I used to play Phoenix Command. :)
D&D (choose edition)
Well... I did join a Shadowrun Campaign after being politely asked to join the group many moons ago. I loath Shadowrun... So it went as expected. It was extremely pedestrian with a 1 dimensional GM. I was forced to play a troll called 'Lunchbox' who loved to cook. I shit you not...
Needless to say, I left after the 2nd session hating Shadowrun even more then I did previously.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1046891Well... I did join a Shadowrun Campaign after being politely asked to join the group many moons ago. I loath Shadowrun... So it went as expected. It was extremely pedestrian with a 1 dimensional GM. I was forced to play a troll called 'Lunchbox' who loved to cook. I shit you not...
Needless to say, I left after the 2nd session hating Shadowrun even more then I did previously.
Kudos on lasting that long. If I don't like a game, I immediately pack my stuff and walk out.
Nice thread bump...I JUST got a new copy of Fantasy Wargaming in the mail today and am tempted to run it for no other reason than "why the fuck not". Definitely seems like a machismo factor, as the last time I read the rules it seemed like way too much work for what is essentially historical D&D. Lion & Dragon is infinitely more clear.
In the past, I attempted a lot of the games listed...FATAL, Aria (seriously love this game, can't make heads or tails of it), Cyborg Commando. Nobilis is impossible to play (is this even a game?), but I gave it a shot. A couple people mentioned C&S, which I played and ran over the years (and a top 3 game for me).
Has anyone tried to play/run Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine? I read some of the rules and, once again, couldn't figure this out. I am starting to think Jenna Moran is a very clever troll.
Quote from: HorusArisen;1046878D&D (choose edition)
Wow, so edgy.
Quote from: LouGoncey;1015999We actually played AFTERMATH but I broke laughing after reading the character generation of SPACE OPERA.
I played Aftermath in PbP. Don't know if it counts, because I never saw the actual rulebook. The GM helped me through chargen and took care of the mechanics...:p
Quote from: HorusArisen;1046878D&D (choose edition)
Hey, I've done that, too;)!
Quote from: Krimson;1046877I used to play Phoenix Command. :)
And that one:D!
I remember it's actually quite the decent game when you're in the mood to track parts of the second.
Quote from: AsenRG;1046902And that one:D!
I remember it's actually quite the decent game when you're in the mood to track parts of the second.
Our GM had all the important tables in clear page inserts in a binder with color coded dividers, so he could run it pretty quick.
We played 2 sessions of FATAL once, totalling about 4 hours. Mind you, most of the "playtime" was spent making fun of the setting and the rulebook, while everyone slowly got drunk.
Apart from that, a friend of mine eventually wore me down and integrated me into a group playing Vampire: The Masquerade. Now I'm not saying the game or setting is bad, I just personally have only bad experiences with it, and consider it "Crawling in my Skin: These wounds will not heal"-the RPG.
So the rest of the party was very familiar with the setting and mechanics, and basically went right into full on opera mode. I think I played some lowbie tagalong, and very much felt like a background actor compared to everybody else. Just couldn't get into it at all, with the only cool parts being some of the powers I got to use. Think I couldve gotten into it more, with a group that took it a little slower.
I once ran a short Traveller: New Era campaign with all of the vehicles, guns and other sundry equipment created using the methods in Fire, Fusion, Steel.
Yes, Powers & Perils.
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1047002Yes, Powers & Perils.
Every single time I open my copy, I just KNOW there's a good game somewhere, waiting to get out...have you seen the "new" second edition? It's free, if anyone is interested.
http://powersandperils.org/books/ver6/PnPv2.pdf
Quote from: Brad;1046896Nice thread bump...I JUST got a new copy of Fantasy Wargaming in the mail today and am tempted to run it for no other reason than "why the fuck not". Definitely seems like a machismo factor, as the last time I read the rules it seemed like way too much work for what is essentially historical D&D. Lion & Dragon is infinitely more clear.
In the past, I attempted a lot of the games listed...FATAL, Aria (seriously love this game, can't make heads or tails of it), Cyborg Commando. Nobilis is impossible to play (is this even a game?), but I gave it a shot. A couple people mentioned C&S, which I played and ran over the years (and a top 3 game for me).
Has anyone tried to play/run Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine? I read some of the rules and, once again, couldn't figure this out. I am starting to think Jenna Moran is a very clever troll.
Wow, so edgy.
I love my big white Nobilis book but I've always suspected it's more for reading than playing.
Not being edgy, so many better games out there I've no idea why people go back to it in any iteration other than nostalgia.
Quote from: Brad;1047016Every single time I open my copy, I just KNOW there's a good game somewhere, waiting to get out...have you seen the "new" second edition? It's free, if anyone is interested.
http://powersandperils.org/books/ver6/PnPv2.pdf
Does it still have the skill "Eroticist"? *click your kindly posted link*
Wow.
And I quote from p43
QuoteThe slave Aisan is an EL11 Eroticist. Her massages increase StB and CB by 3 for healing. Without the proper balms and oils, her arts increase both by 1.
Well, there's one way to guarentee a happy ending to your adventure.;):D
Now, why an Asian woman in the example, I wonder.:rolleyes:
Oh, I can't wait for the SJWs to notice this one.:eek:
LOL
Quote from: HorusArisen;1047023Not being edgy, so many better games out there I've no idea why people go back to it in any iteration other than nostalgia.
I vehemently disagree. There's no nostalgia, some of us just prefer the older games.
Quote from: Brad;1047050I vehemently disagree. There's no nostalgia, some of us just prefer the older games.
And that's 100% fine, I remain bewildered that people don't choose say RQ (or Mythras) or even RM in a pinch but no choice is a wrong choice if you're having fun.
I've torn into off-seeming games like Fifth Cycle and Anima: Beyond Fantasy just to see if there is anything good in them. (Short answer: Fifth Cycle yes; Anima, not that I can tell.)
But out of masochism? No.
Only a fool would judge roleplaying games like they are computer games. Roleplaying games demand one thing, imagination. I prefer playing roleplaying games (old and new) made by people who learned fantasy by reading literature than from people who grew up playing World of Warcraft. I detest game designers who try to shoehorne players and game masters behind handicapped set of rules borrowed from boardgames and video games in order to hide their own inability of imagination and expression.
Not masochism, just 'why the fuck did I bother.'
Quote from: Brad;1047016Every single time I open my copy, I just KNOW there's a good game somewhere, waiting to get out...have you seen the "new" second edition? It's free, if anyone is interested.
http://powersandperils.org/books/ver6/PnPv2.pdf
Nah, it's shit. But it is fun to thumb through every so often. Much like with Fantasy Wargaming, the guy behind it is probably more interesting than the game he wrote.
Quote from: HorusArisen;1047187And that's 100% fine, I remain bewildered that people don't choose say RQ (or Mythras) or even RM in a pinch but no choice is a wrong choice if you're having fun.
D&D (any old school), Rolemaster (and Spacemaster, HARP, MERP et.al) and RQ/Mythras (CoC, Stormbringer etc.) are my top 3 games as it happens.
After that: Tallislanta, Savage Worlds and Traveller
So I guess it's only SW that has made the grade for me.
Quote from: Brad;1046896Has anyone tried to play/run Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine? I read some of the rules and, once again, couldn't figure this out. I am starting to think Jenna Moran is a very clever troll.
I remember the shitstorm that resulted on TBP when someone suggested that Jenna would be a great RPG author if she would just write her rules in english.
Quote from: remial;1047277I remember the shitstorm that resulted on TBP when someone suggested that Jenna would be a great RPG author if she would just write her rules in english.
Yeah, I found that statement in poor taste because it suggests the possibility that Moran is a good RPG author.
Quote from: remial;1047277I remember the shitstorm that resulted on TBP when someone suggested that Jenna would be a great RPG author if she would just write her rules in english.
Amusingly enough, for a post that criticises someone else's mastery of the language, in English you should capitalize the name of the language;).
Quote from: RPGPundit;1047496Yeah, I found that statement in poor taste because it suggests the possibility that Moran is a good RPG author.
If I was creating a team for a fantasy game and had the budget, I'd certainly consider hiring Jenna Moran to write the setting, though
probably not the rules.
Except after that, her writing would pass through an editor I know and trust:D!
Back in the day I took a drunken bet and ran FATAL on IRC for 3 sessions.
Then I stayed drunk for a month.
Ran 3.5 because I had bought the books.
It was shit.
Quote from: AsenRG;1047504If I was creating a team for a fantasy game and had the budget, I'd certainly consider hiring Jenna Moran to write the setting, though probably not the rules.
Except after that, her writing would pass through an editor I know and trust:D!
I don't think her setting work is good at all. It's not written for playability. It's written to try to show you how clever she is, which fails on account that she really isn't.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1047881I don't think her setting work is good at all. It's not written for playability. It's written to try to show you how clever she is, which fails on account that she really isn't.
Nobilis is great, it's a bit of a pastiche of Sandman (Gaiman) but it's a fun read and there's plenty of story to play games in. Mechanics not so much but I've seen worse.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1047881I don't think her setting work is good at all. It's not written for playability. It's written to try to show you how clever she is, which fails on account that she really isn't.
You're
Entitled To Your Opinion of course:D!
I disagree, because I've had lots of fun with material she had produced for Exalted 1e. YMMV, but I prefer to go by my own experience;).
Yes, my gaming group and I actually did a podcast series we called "20 Weeks of Hell" where we were looking to play purposefully bad games for funsies and break them for the lead up to 4th edition D&D. This was when 4th edition was still being touted as the next coming of Christ and was going to save D&D. Funny that it would have ended up being a perfect subject for our podcast.
We didn't do the full 20 Weeks, and we also decided to abandon completely bad games and just run some random ones too to try them out, but there are a few stinkers that stand out for me.
Godlike with it's "One Roll Engine". My players were able to break that one without any problems at all. The guy who made himself like Spiderman turned out to be damn near invincible with enhanced dexterity alone, while the Deadpool ran out of superjuice in the first fight...and since Superjuice was connected to your courage and willpower too...spent the rest of the game being terrified of combat and hiding from everything. The other characters fared little better.
Then there was "Dawn of Legends" one of the first Superhero products for Savage Worlds that decided to use it's own Superpower system rather than the Superpower Supplement PEGinc made themselves. That one was also broken beyond all sense with completely useless powers costing the same as broken powers. To take a snippet from a review one of my players did of the system..and comparing two characters, built with the same amount of points, using powers that cost the same and are as analogous as possible to one another..
Special Boy has
Color Change 15pts Rank 6
Camoflauge 30pts Rank 6
Digestive Adaption 30pts Rank 6
X-Ray Vision, Full 12 points
Mental Resistance 10 points Rank 4
Spiritual Fortitude 10 points Rank 4
Self Destruct 2 points
with one point left over
Better Boy Has
Daze 15 Points Rank 6
Invisibility 30 Points Rank 6
Disintegrate 30 Points Rank 6
ESP Full 12 Points
Super Smarts 10 points Rank 2
Super Spirit 10 points Rank 2
Self Destruct 2 points
1 Point Left over
Digestive Adaption disintegrated anything you ate...Camouflage was just a worst version of Invisibility but cost the same..Super Smarts and Super Spirit raised your Smarts and Spirit die type directly rather than just a small part of it's derived trait compared to Mental Resistance and Spiritual Fortitude. My friends entire review of the game can be found here and I recommend ithttps://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14312.phtml (https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14312.phtml)
By far the funniest part of the system was how superspeed worked. You created a mile wide and long speed wake that did 1d6 of damage to everything in it for every Mach that you went. In the description of the power it mentioned that was why the setting's superman would always go as high up as he could before flying... To demonstrate the ridiculousness of this, one of my players made a Speedster, and at the first sign of trouble raced down into the city toward the source before everyone else. This caused him to effectively destroy the entire city with his speed wake.
Needless to say, the first thing we did after that, was rewound the scene, and explained how we wouldn't be using that particular aspect of the rules.
I don't think you can actually find a copy of Dawn of Legends for Savage Worlds for sale anymore. I understand the setting was re-released for Fate not to long ago and renamed "Daring Comics" and apparently it's much better now.
Yes, Palladium Fantasy, twice! Ran it a few times, very mildly okay, and then bought it again years later because I recalled people saying "oh, the setting material is great!" Yeah maybe.
I've tried fate and the apocalypse engine and lived to game another day. Still not willing to try VtM though.
Quote from: Jager Fury;1047997Yes, Palladium Fantasy, twice! Ran it a few times, very mildly okay, and then bought it again years later because I recalled people saying "oh, the setting material is great!" Yeah maybe.
listing Palladium Fantasy as a 'bad' game is only true if you mean 2nd edition.
Palladium Fantasy 1e is awesome.