Quote from: Orphan81 on September 29, 2021, 05:20:26 PMYeah that's a *HARD* disagree from me right there. Putting minorities in your game, or allowing women to be seen as politically equal to men in your historical fantasy doesn't count as "Pandering" to me. It's making a good game.

That's my point. If your criteria for what makes a good game is a low percentage of straight white male characters, then an easy way to make the game better is to remove more straight white male characters. Which is exactly what happened to 7th Sea.

Besides, you were the one who used the term "pandering" to describe adding female NPCs to a game when now you're saying that it isn't pandering but, instead, making a good game. Which is it?

QuoteWeird I know, but unless I'm actually running a game set in a real historical period like 1200s England, I prefer character options to be more than just Straight White Men. Call me an SJW.

You're talking about two totally unrelated things here. The number and types of NPCs in the game world has no bearing whatsoever on the character options a player has. Which is really the main problem with representation in media: the idea that you can only play a game, or like a movie, if there is a character in that game or movie that looks like you.

Quote from: Orphan81 on September 29, 2021, 05:20:26 PM
Yeah that's a *HARD* disagree from me right there. Putting minorities in your game, or allowing women to be seen as politically equal to men in your historical fantasy doesn't count as "Pandering" to me. It's making a good game.

Weird I know, but unless I'm actually running a game set in a real historical period like 1200s England, I prefer character options to be more than just Straight White Men. Call me an SJW.

I agree. In a game like 7th Sea, I have no problem with minorities, LGBT, or women in the game. In fact, that's true of most RPG settings. Settings that are meant to be historically accurate (like your example of 1200s England) are a bit trickier in that regard.

Quote from: Shasarak on September 29, 2021, 05:59:26 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on September 29, 2021, 05:20:26 PM
Call me an SJW.

You are a SJW.

Any other requests, I am here all day.

Greetings!

*Laughing* So funny, Shasarak!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Recently reading about this and jessica price and this wick guy got me thinking.

There has also been some talk about the terrible pay and conditions at Paizo too.

So shitty pay, shitty bosses...just intolerable unenlightened leadership at poor paying jobs...what's an adult to do?

I know this is totally radical but I thought what would happen if you tried to change jobs.  Like maybe quit.   But then I realized it makes more sense to bitch online, disparage everyone associated with the business in question after wallowing in misery for years.

But then again, I am a hypocrite.  I had a job like that some years ago and I only stayed until I found a better job, secretly plotting my escape and spending time floating resumes.  I just lack the commitment to fight the power and move on with life.

Sometimes even now I regret my better pay and working conditions and realize I should have been spending my life speaking truth to power. 

Quote from: Dapig on October 01, 2021, 07:00:21 AM
Recently reading about this and jessica price and this wick guy got me thinking.

There has also been some talk about the terrible pay and conditions at Paizo too.

So shitty pay, shitty bosses...just intolerable unenlightened leadership at poor paying jobs...what's an adult to do?

I know this is totally radical but I thought what would happen if you tried to change jobs.  Like maybe quit.   But then I realized it makes more sense to bitch online, disparage everyone associated with the business in question after wallowing in misery for years.

But then again, I am a hypocrite.  I had a job like that some years ago and I only stayed until I found a better job, secretly plotting my escape and spending time floating resumes.  I just lack the commitment to fight the power and move on with life.

Sometimes even now I regret my better pay and working conditions and realize I should have been spending my life speaking truth to power.

LOL.

If you're in a job where you honestly dread getting up and going to work -- not just the usual 'bah work' but actively hate it -- it's time to start looking at other options. Send out resumes, increase your skills if you need to, network with friends and family.

And when the call comes, punch out and never look back.

I'm sure it bothers you that you didn't raise hell, but I guess as Pratchett once put it, falling into a big bag of money (or even a respectable pillow-sized bag of money) helps soothe your mind

Haha!

It's like basic life skills! 

They post all these long screeds when they could, I dunno look for another damn job!

How many fucking cooks, bus drivers, accountants or whatever have a douchey boss?  We're supposed to weep for these game rpg "luminaries" because they have a more visible job?  Get bent!

Quote from: Dapig on October 01, 2021, 08:15:38 AM
Haha!

It's like basic life skills! 

They post all these long screeds when they could, I dunno look for another damn job!

How many fucking cooks, bus drivers, accountants or whatever have a douchey boss?  We're supposed to weep for these game rpg "luminaries" because they have a more visible job?  Get bent!

Except that the people we are talking about are habitual, almost reflexive liars.  They also like to indulge in drama as a tactic, and frequently don't fully understand what they are talking about.

They make "unreliable narrators" look like paragons of honesty and discernment in contrast.  What you say is logical--a magical unicorn from their perspective.

AEG used to be located in SoCal so Wick & crew were often at SoCal cons and I've gamed with them many times, even playtested various of their games.

I haven't followed Wick's work very much after AEG, but I am forever grateful for his creation of Legends of the Five Rings 1e and 7th Sea 1e. Wonderfully fun games. A bit of wonkiness in the systems, but nothing that really mattered in actual play.

Did Wick have a big ego? Yeah, highly creative people often do. It takes a bit of a god complex to face a blank page and produce a book.

It will be fun to see if Wick flees from the woke scolds, kneels to them, or tears Rob Vaux and the rest a new asshole. Anyone keeping up on the debacle?

Quote from: Reckall on September 21, 2021, 06:42:43 AM
BTW, the Mods are now firmly in Wonderland.

I purchased several of Wick's 'little' games off of DriveThruRPG. Several of them are seemingly incomplete, as in there seem to be gaps in the rules. Someone commented on this and received a reply along the lines of, 'well, a good gm can still make them work. I guess this isn't for you.'
I decided I didn't need any more of his games.

Guidance:
Please keep anything related to Wick about his behavior to things you've experienced or heard. His approach to game design is irrelevant in this case. Thank you.

Isn't this dude speaking about his direct experience with John Wick's games?

No, they're criticizing design aspects of his games, not his personal behavior, and it's a needless distraction. In this case the mod call was right.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 21, 2021, 11:35:40 AMkeeping a record of stuff that happened years ago is the MO of sjdubs.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 21, 2021, 11:46:41 AMI encourage people to document and archive the socjus zealots' bullshit, since they have a habit of cleaning house if they think things are going to go into the crapper.

I have had to keep receipts for my own safety, and it's saved my ass on more than one occasion.

Quote from: ponta1010 on September 21, 2021, 04:33:44 PM
If Wick's so bad, how long before any discussion of his games are banned from RPG.net?

Good question, as it's all but inevitable.

Quote from: ChrisFox on September 21, 2021, 11:08:14 PM

Quote from: brettmb on September 21, 2021, 11:55:14 AM
Curiously, the "no personal attacks" rule went right out the window on that thread at rpg.net. Interesting how they pick and choose.

I guess it's no longer a personal attack if you've been unpersoned.

Especially when their entire ideology rests on the concept of legitimized personhood.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 29, 2021, 01:15:23 PM
On a more recent side note. 

Wicki said he never 'bans' people commenting on his youtube channel, or blocks them. Basically, in order to show everyone what 'bigots' they really are.

Of course, that's not really true... I've a few youtube accounts. And I dropped a comment letting the good viewers know of the rather nice thread that's currently on rpg.net about Wicky and I was shadow banned very shortly afterwards.

It seems Wicky skin isn't quite as thick as he pretends it to be...

To be fair you cannot accurately attribute any bans, blocks, or edits to the people who actually own accounts on #YouTube as The Algorithm is capricious and will strike down anything with even a whiff of doxing, let alone suggesting people check off-site sources.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 14, 2021, 11:11:18 AM
To be fair you cannot accurately attribute any bans, blocks, or edits to the people who actually own accounts on #YouTube as The Algorithm is capricious and will strike down anything with even a whiff of doxing, let alone suggesting people check off-site sources.

The 'algo' would not have redacted anything that I commented on. There was no doxing or the like involved. He just didn't like my comment...

Truth hurts as they say.