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Hasbro Fails, but OpenRPG / #ORC may be a Trap

Started by RPGPundit, January 15, 2023, 12:28:13 AM

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David Johansen

#60
January 26, 2023, 01:18:23 AM
I think my new game should include a morality clause, "you've all been naughty and need a spanking!"  There, yup, I think that covers it.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

Omega

#61
January 27, 2023, 02:42:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

Do you believe them?

Chris24601

#62
January 27, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Omega on January 27, 2023, 02:42:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

Do you believe them?
That the ORC won't have a morality clause? Yes.

That doesn't mean the new Pathfinder SRD, the Kobold Press SRD, etc. won't have their own supplemental Morality Clauses. That's where I expect to see them turn up.

GeekyBugle

#63
January 27, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 27, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Omega on January 27, 2023, 02:42:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

Do you believe them?
That the ORC won't have a morality clause? Yes.

That doesn't mean the new Pathfinder SRD, the Kobold Press SRD, etc. won't have their own supplemental Morality Clauses. That's where I expect to see them turn up.

Here's the thing, if the ORC allows for the developer/publisher/creator to place morality clauses it's not really an open license. They will just have found a way to redirect the anger/pushback towards those who do.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

PulpHerb

#64
January 27, 2023, 11:19:03 AM
Quote from: David Johansen on January 26, 2023, 01:18:23 AM
I think my new game should include a morality clause, "you've all been naughty and need a spanking!"  There, yup, I think that covers it.

While that would be roleplaying, I think you need a different forum for that game ;)

PulpHerb

#65
January 27, 2023, 11:20:32 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 27, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Omega on January 27, 2023, 02:42:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

Do you believe them?
That the ORC won't have a morality clause? Yes.

That doesn't mean the new Pathfinder SRD, the Kobold Press SRD, etc. won't have their own supplemental Morality Clauses. That's where I expect to see them turn up.

With ORC allowing customization, the devil will be in the details. I posted above non-morality stuff Chaosium already has in their "open" licenses for BRP and OpenQuest. I expect to see a lot like that as well as a morality clause in most of the extensions.

wmarshal

#66
January 27, 2023, 12:23:57 PM
I think those offering SRDs with morality clauses will be less popular than they might have been compared to those SRDs offered without.

PulpHerb

#67
January 27, 2023, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: wmarshal on January 27, 2023, 12:23:57 PM
I think those offering SRDs with morality clauses will be less popular than they might have been compared to those SRDs offered without.

True, but the size of the largest no morality clause company may affect viability.

It is undoubtedly a way for Kobold Press to kill the viability on their 5e clone/5.75 game.

Anon Adderlan

#68
January 30, 2023, 09:39:59 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

That's... not how things went down, as I can assure you the ORC was never going to have a morality clause.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 27, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
That doesn't mean the new Pathfinder SRD, the Kobold Press SRD, etc. won't have their own supplemental Morality Clauses. That's where I expect to see them turn up.

Here's the thing, if the ORC allows for the developer/publisher/creator to place morality clauses it's not really an open license.

No less open than the OGL, which was specifically designed to enable companies to license their brand and rules separately. Those brand licenses will absolutely have such clauses, as they should, because at that point you're representing their brand. And given how many Community Content Agreements already operate under these restrictions I'm really curious as to how many times content has actually been pulled for violating such clauses.

GeekyBugle

#69
January 30, 2023, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on January 30, 2023, 09:39:59 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2023, 10:54:16 PM
Eric Mona first agreed in a thread with me (after I convinced him) that they can't have a morality clause. The Paizo account later confirmed that the ORCLicense itself wouldn't have a morality clause.

That's... not how things went down, as I can assure you the ORC was never going to have a morality clause.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 11:12:06 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 27, 2023, 08:26:22 AM
That doesn't mean the new Pathfinder SRD, the Kobold Press SRD, etc. won't have their own supplemental Morality Clauses. That's where I expect to see them turn up.

Here's the thing, if the ORC allows for the developer/publisher/creator to place morality clauses it's not really an open license.

No less open than the OGL, which was specifically designed to enable companies to license their brand and rules separately. Those brand licenses will absolutely have such clauses, as they should, because at that point you're representing their brand. And given how many Community Content Agreements already operate under these restrictions I'm really curious as to how many times content has actually been pulled for violating such clauses.

Those are two sepparate things, even under CC0 you can preserve your brand AND have a separate license to allow others to use it, if someone inserts a morality clause on their branding license it doesn't reflect/affect the oppenes of CC0.

While, from what has been said by the ORC people they were thinking of ways to allow the publisher to (by modifying the license I assume) insert a morality clause.

The OGL was designed to promote D&D while restricting the rights of those using it to not claim compatibility with D&D.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Ruprecht

#70
January 30, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 30, 2023, 11:24:46 AM

The OGL was designed to promote D&D while restricting the rights of those using it to not claim compatibility with D&D.
I've heard that before but never understood the logic. Why would a company not want folks to claim compatibility. Imagine if they all turned their backs on WotC and went for compatibility with GURPs for example, that would seem horrible for WotC and great for GURPS.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

GeekyBugle

#71
January 30, 2023, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 30, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 30, 2023, 11:24:46 AM

The OGL was designed to promote D&D while restricting the rights of those using it to not claim compatibility with D&D.
I've heard that before but never understood the logic. Why would a company not want folks to claim compatibility. Imagine if they all turned their backs on WotC and went for compatibility with GURPs for example, that would seem horrible for WotC and great for GURPS.

Because then they can sell you a license to do what the law already allows you to do without paying them shit.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Thor's Nads

#72
January 30, 2023, 10:00:18 PM
ORC, Black Flag, or anything that doesn't use the lingua franca of Roleplaying Games is not likely to ever get widespread adoption.

The lingua franca being, of course, Dungeons and Dragons.

if ORC uses the D&D rules then it has a chance to succeed. But then what is the point?
Gen-Xtra

wmarshal

#73
January 30, 2023, 11:31:24 PM
Quote from: thornad on January 30, 2023, 10:00:18 PM
ORC, Black Flag, or anything that doesn't use the lingua franca of Roleplaying Games is not likely to ever get widespread adoption.

The lingua franca being, of course, Dungeons and Dragons.

if ORC uses the D&D rules then it has a chance to succeed. But then what is the point?
Doesn't have to worry about Hasbro nonsense?

WOTC says that they're leaving the OGL 1.0a in place. That was not a statement guaranteeing that position irrevocably into the future. They (or the next round of short-sighted corporate management) could change their mind. It'd be stupid, but "stupid"rarely stops from acting.

Thor's Nads

#74
January 31, 2023, 12:09:57 AM
Quote from: wmarshal on January 30, 2023, 11:31:24 PM
Quote from: thornad on January 30, 2023, 10:00:18 PM
ORC, Black Flag, or anything that doesn't use the lingua franca of Roleplaying Games is not likely to ever get widespread adoption.

The lingua franca being, of course, Dungeons and Dragons.

if ORC uses the D&D rules then it has a chance to succeed. But then what is the point?
Doesn't have to worry about Hasbro nonsense?

WOTC says that they're leaving the OGL 1.0a in place. That was not a statement guaranteeing that position irrevocably into the future. They (or the next round of short-sighted corporate management) could change their mind. It'd be stupid, but "stupid"rarely stops from acting.

If a team of designers were to draft an SRD that sifted through the decades of D&D rules and distilled all the game mechanics out, the non-copyrightable stuff, wrote it up cleanly and succinctly, and made that publicly available through a CC commons license so that anyone can copy and paste from it then we'd have something.

It would be a lot of work and hundreds of pages long. Seems like a monumental effort to do without compensation.
Gen-Xtra
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