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Author Topic: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!  (Read 19955 times)

jhkim

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #210 on: July 26, 2021, 10:24:59 AM »
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

tenbones

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #211 on: July 26, 2021, 11:13:58 AM »
So do you support teaching children CRT at 3-years of age from toy manufacturers?

Ocule

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #212 on: July 26, 2021, 11:49:55 AM »
The more I see shit like this the more I think we need to be a lot more aggressive in pushing these people out of society. We are up against an enemy in a war of information who has no scruples, no moral foundation and nothing is off limits. We need to find a way to crush their will to fight. We know they eat their own and turn on each other easily so let’s drive that metaphorical wedge in deeper.

Then while they’re destroying each other we can push back and start driving them out. By the time we finished the goals will be to have crushed their will fight, ostracized those who won’t let go from society, and removed them from all places of power and influence. Let’s teach it in schools of the absurd movement that devoured itself, and make a mockery of the virtue signaling and Hypocritical bullshit with the same tone as we teach about groups like the kkk or the Nazis. Turn their tools against them.

The alternative is much more violent and bloody the way things are going. But to quote Heinlenn  here… violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

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Ratman_tf

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #213 on: July 26, 2021, 01:12:16 PM »
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #214 on: July 26, 2021, 01:14:10 PM »
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

So, because in the 60's? black toddlers liked white dolls therefore white toddlers are racist?

Also, racial identity is what the nazis promoted, it's what the black nationalists promotes and it's also what CRT promotes.

How are you gonna end racism by promoting racial identity?

By using the "African-American", "Asian-American" etc monikers you are saying those aren't fully Americans, and also Africa and Asia have several different ethnicities and cultures you bigot.
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Zalman

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #215 on: July 26, 2021, 01:17:08 PM »
One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.

... that demonstrates a preference for doll color. Features are more evident to the human eye with lighter colors. Humans prefer lighter colored dogs too, but racists gonna racist.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that humans prefer RPG book covers that aren't too dark to read as well!
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #216 on: July 26, 2021, 01:19:12 PM »
Looking even further for details, the doll study was not done on toddlers.

https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-brown-v-board-education/significance-doll-test/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler

And I wouldn't want to play with either of those dolls. They all look fugly.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #217 on: July 26, 2021, 01:22:49 PM »
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?

O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

All in an effort to give cover to the assertion that white children are racist.

Racism:

noun
  • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

    the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #218 on: July 26, 2021, 01:26:16 PM »
Looking even further for details, the doll study was not done on toddlers.

https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-brown-v-board-education/significance-doll-test/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler

And I wouldn't want to play with either of those dolls. They all look fugly.

Also: "Dr. Kenneth Clark was dismayed that the court failed to cite two other conclusions he had reached: that racism was an inherently American institution and that school segregation inhibited the development of white children, too."

LOL, yes, because we never saw racism in Africa between Africans against other Africans. Or from Arabs against Africans, or any other race against other races.

This Dr is a snake oil salesman.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

oggsmash

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #219 on: July 26, 2021, 02:29:17 PM »
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

   They concluded this was due to racism?   Did they do any control studies for what characteristics were preferred among all races?  I do remember reading something around that years ago, about blonde hair and blue eyes.   So it strikes me as odd those were on the dolls, when they could have just been white dolls with brown hair and brown eyes.  I have a feeling the people doing the research knew that blonde hair and blue eyes have ALWAYS been desirable pretty much every where they show up.  I also wonder if they would have presented a black doll with blonde hair and blue eyes what the kids would have chosen.   

jeff37923

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #220 on: July 26, 2021, 03:24:58 PM »
One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.

... that demonstrates a preference for doll color. Features are more evident to the human eye with lighter colors. Humans prefer lighter colored dogs too, but racists gonna racist.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that humans prefer RPG book covers that aren't too dark to read as well!


Ahem, Traveller.

"Meh."

Yeti Spaghetti

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #221 on: July 26, 2021, 03:34:11 PM »
I think Scalia said that he would have dissented in the Brown case, and it might have been because of the dubious nature of evidence like the doll test.

Of course, he also said he would have dissented in the Plessy case, which he viewed as judicial activism for racists.

jhkim

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #222 on: July 26, 2021, 04:16:02 PM »
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.


I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO
So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.
O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

(1) I share skepticism about social sciences -- but if the question is "can young children be racially biased", that's inherently a social science question. It's not going to get answered by a physics study or a chemistry study. If you have better studies that address the question, I'd be interested to see them.

(2) I haven't said anything about extrapolation. I would think that the results will vary depending on time and place. I would be interested to see about results from other countries - my search only turned up attempts in the U.S.

(3) GeekyBugle - you previously claimed that inherently, toddlers will prefer people that look like their parents. Do still think that black toddlers in the U.S. will prefer black people over white people? Is there any evidence that demonstrates that?


Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.

Again, the Clark doll test isn't part of CRT. It shows the even black children in America are biased against black dolls, which is different what you're arguing against here.

oggsmash

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #223 on: July 26, 2021, 04:24:28 PM »
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.


I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO
So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.
O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

(1) I share skepticism about social sciences -- but if the question is "can young children be racially biased", that's inherently a social science question. It's not going to get answered by a physics study or a chemistry study. If you have better studies that address the question, I'd be interested to see them.

(2) I haven't said anything about extrapolation. I would think that the results will vary depending on time and place. I would be interested to see about results from other countries - my search only turned up attempts in the U.S.

(3) GeekyBugle - you previously claimed that inherently, toddlers will prefer people that look like their parents. Do still think that black toddlers in the U.S. will prefer black people over white people? Is there any evidence that demonstrates that?


Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.

Again, the Clark doll test isn't part of CRT. It shows the even black children in America are biased against black dolls, which is different what you're arguing against here.

   So if blue eyes and blond hair are preferable traits, preferring those traits in a doll or person you are looking at is racist?   I still do not see how any measure of the test did anything but show blonde hair and blue eyes are visually pleasing.    Social science is complete bullshit and reminds me of "stopping power" studies with firearms.  You can make it come out any way you want it to.

   Regarding original civil rights movement, shitloads of commies all over that movement, who were in it for anything but civil rights, but it made a great cloak to wear to see your will done.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 04:26:03 PM by oggsmash »

Ratman_tf

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Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
« Reply #224 on: July 26, 2021, 05:10:02 PM »
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

Did anyone say the Clark Doll test was somehow connected to CRT or the SJW movement? I don't care either way. I care about how accurate, current and reliable the data are. Especially when someone is using it as a data point when making a claim.

Quote
One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.

The argument was that toddlers are racist. You provided one test done over 60 years ago as possible evidence that the claim was true, but as I pointed out, the test wasn't even done on toddlers, much less evidence that modern day toddlers are racist, or that the perception of racist attitudes in toddlers can't potentially be explained by other factors.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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