Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PM

Quote from: BronzeDragon on July 20, 2021, 08:26:45 PM
I do believe you're correct in general.

My only issue is I don't see the levers of power available to stem the tide. They all seem to be being pulled in the same direction, just that some people are trying to pull back on some of them, mostly unsuccessfully I might add.

I think the war is lost. When the kids have been converted, you've lost the future. Or at least the next generation.

Which is why I think talking rationally has value. Think of neoliberalism -- before the 70s, the whole world leaned heavily (democratic) socialist. The few free market types were relegated to the fringes, and had no power. But then stagflation happened. Both inflation and unemployment rose at the same time, making people miserable, and the keynesians had no answer. So the public began looking for someone with a solution. That's when the Mont Pelerin Society stepped in. They had been outcasts nobody paid attention to, but suddenly it was their ideas laying the foundation for the next half a century. The reason this happened was because they had been working on the intellectual framework, building a base of thinkers and theory, and all that was ready when the crisis happened.

The modern leftists used a similar approach. They laid the intellectual framework, and then waited for the time for it to emerge. This goes back further than the origins of Critical Race Theory, or Critical Theory in general, or even postmodernism, though those were all steps along the way. It can be traced back to the Frankfort School, who called this approach the Long March through the Institutions. They worked not really in the shadows, but in the fringes of public discourse, focusing not on the levers or power or immediate victories, but on the long process of building an intellectual tradition and developing a critical mass of supportive scholars and scholarship, and focusing more on theory and education than practical, short term results.

So even if the current war is lost, there is a path forward. And it's not screeching or salting the earth. It's building a framework, and waiting for the opportunity. That's why this fuss parents are making about CRT in schools and toy manufacturers like Hasbro, even if I think their solutions are off base, are at least targeting the right things. Retaking control over how children are taught is fundamental.

My great-grandfather believed in rational discussion. He believed in talking and trying to convince. Not surprising, he was a Judge, an intellectual man of letters. He had great admiration for the Germans, and spoke perfectly fluent German without an accent. He was convinced that the German people were incredibly rational people and that they could be talked to and made to see reason.

None of that stopped the Germans from arresting him, putting him in a concentration camp and killing him.

You can't reason your way out of this with a group of murderous cultists. You can't just wait it out and expect that people will gradually change perspective.

Quote from: Reckall on July 21, 2021, 08:24:38 AM

Quote from: rgalex on July 20, 2021, 03:28:56 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.

Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PM

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 08:14:32 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 20, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.

It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Fuck you too.

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PMI think the war is lost. When the kids have been converted, you've lost the future.

The future of America is civil war, secession or submission to marxism.

With submission as the most likely option.

As the Right has no appetite for using the 2A for anything but defense, the left gains ground each day - without fear of repercussion.

However, that leaves Red State Secession as an escape path, because this isn't a political battle, but cultural battle for America and Western Civilization which are all swiftly collapsing.

A seceded half-nation could take command of its culture and purge all the marxist elements. Of course, secession requires immediate movement because the left only needs to convert/destroy one more generation of children.

As the left controls all the levers of cultural power - academia, media, Big Tech - and the Right knelt to the Shamdemic allowing unhealable scars on GenZ and their younger siblings, secession must begin now.

As for the role of Hasbro and WotC, they are elements of entertaiment, and like all of Hollywood, they are tools of marxist control of the young. As we heard the SF gay choir proudly proclaim, "we're coming for your children, we're going to convert your children", its high time to understand the leftists are NOT kidding.

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PMWhich is why I think talking rationally has value.

Doubtful.

I see no difference between roaring or debating because everyone has already made their choice where they stand. We can chatter endlessly, but few (if any) are going to change their opinion on SJWs, the election steal, the shamdemic, the experimental vax, or any other culture war fronts.

At best, we're clarifying our thoughts for ourselves.

Most likely, we're just amusing theRPGsite Lurkers (hey kids!) and typing out some hopium & copium as our nations fall.

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PMSo even if the current war is lost, there is a path forward. And it's not screeching or salting the earth. It's building a framework, and waiting for the opportunity.

We're way past the time to build frameworks EXCEPT if you're building them within a new nation seceded from the marxist culture.

You can vote your way INTO communism, but you don't vote your way out.

And to refocus the thread on the RPG CULTURE WAR...

Here's what I got from the leftist retards of Onyx Path regarding their new Mage book:

Climate change threatens to destroy life as we know it. Religious fundamentalism breeds terror around the globe. Diseases, once eradicated in the developed world through vaccination, have returned due to antivaxxer movements. Totalitarian, nationalist governments rise as the Masses succumb to fear of the other. The world stands on the brink of destruction, and it is up to the agents and operatives of the Technocratic Union to save it...or be its ultimate destruction.

You just know the cucks at WotC are burning jealous they can't be as blatant YET with D&D...they gotta wait for 6th edition.

RPGPundit, are the communists in Uruguay and the rest of Centra/South America feeling empowered by America's quickening collapse?

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PMIt will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

I agree marxism must be fought everywhere.

However, I don't see a path to victory. They've consolidated power and control and the sheep are content to be slaughtered. At best, the fight is about pushing back to wake up a few of the sheep. At worst, the fight is worth it for ourselves - not just to say we stood against them, but to steel for the day when the fight becomes more than words.

Your great-grandfather judge probably never though the trip to the gulag would be his death, just as my peasant relatives didn't know that being marched into the hills atop their village was where they would be gunned down and left to rot. But we know better what the left has planned for us.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PMIf YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy.

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.

In the US, there are more Democrats than there are Americans.
Democrats are told to stay home and not work and that they don't have to pay their rent/mortgage because it's year-round COVID now.
Banks that own all these properties won't survive this.

I suspect things will start to turn around when the economic implications start to be felt, when people remember how back in the day they didn't go hungry and had rights and the streets were safer.  The governments of the modern day aren't the first to thing they can borrow their way to prosperity and world domination.

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 08:01:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PMIf YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy.

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.

Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

Not sure what to do with Hasbro, though Hasbro is more a downstream problem. It's where the problems created in academia and the primary school system manifest. I think it's mostly useful as an object lesson in what's being taught, and how it's seeping into other institutions, and thus can be used to bring more attention to the problems upstream.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PM

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 08:14:32 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 20, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.

It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Greetings!

Pundit, keep the faith, and continue bringing the fight to the Marxists, everywhere, at every opportunity. You are right. Everyone needs to resist them in every way they can, speak up, and get involved.

Our civilization is in serious danger. People need to wake up and fight back, relentlessly!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Pat on July 21, 2021, 09:31:16 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 08:01:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PMIf YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy.

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.

Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

Not sure what to do with Hasbro, though Hasbro is more a downstream problem. It's where the problems created in academia and the primary school system manifest. I think it's mostly useful as an object lesson in what's being taught, and how it's seeping into other institutions, and thus can be used to bring more attention to the problems upstream.

You don't convert people with reason, you do it with feelings. This is true for 99.99% of people.

Which is why the gay choir deleted the video and quickly went into "It's just a joke dude!". They realized they made a tactical error.

And before anyone says it was just a joke you're aware there were some pedos in that choir right?

Which is why they softpedaled the pedo acceptance movement, make no mistake they still are pushing it, just covertly.

Which is why they are searching for other ways to indoctrinate the children, since now their plot in schools is in the open.

So they need Toys, Games, Comics, TV shows etc to use as indoctrination tools.

I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!

Socialism doesn't work is true and a bad argument.

Socialism is theft and requires murder is also true and a good argument. Point out the immorality of their ideology. Push the right buttons.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 21, 2021, 11:23:36 PM
You don't convert people with reason, you do it with feelings. This is true for 99.99% of people.

Reason is how you correctly identify problems, and target attacks. It's how you build a new intellectual framework. It's not a conversion tool.

Quote from: Pat on July 21, 2021, 09:31:16 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 08:01:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PMIf YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy.

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.

Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

There is zero percent chance of them letting themselves be accountable like putting cameras in classrooms.

The social "infrastructure" is already built. How many times have we heard someone like Peter Bhogosian say something like, they get emails and messages all the time of people covertly supporting them, but afraid to do it openly? You keep your mouth shut about this stuff or you get socially dogpiled or probably worse, and everyone who isn't converted watches silently praying they're not next.

We're in a pickle, and I don't blame anyone who wants to take more immediate action. Has anyone in history managed to avert something like this? Or does it have to play out to it's bloody conclusion and then the survivors are the ones who pick up the pieces and start over.

Quote from: Pat on July 21, 2021, 09:31:16 PM
Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, ...

And that is one of the reasons why you are butting heads: "the war is lost" is a loser mentality, and defeatist talk.

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 07:24:34 PM

Quote from: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PMWhich is why I think talking rationally has value.

Doubtful.

At best, we're clarifying our thoughts for ourselves.

Most likely, we're just amusing theRPGsite Lurkers (hey kids!) and typing out some hopium & copium as our nations fall.

I somewhat agree with Pat on this one.

Having a place like the RPGSite is very valuable as people can find a place that actually has counterpoints to the mainstream Marxist narratives.

And having threads where we take the SJW's apart gives people the necessary counterarguments and rhetorical ammo they need to fortify themselves as they encounter the SJW propaganda out in the wild.

That is very important. Just like many of Pundits video's where he gives the counterarguments to the SJW nonsense infesting the hobby.

But where I disagree with him is when the perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

He would critique the PV video and discuss how the studies are actually correct, yet the CRT Marxists put a bad spin on them.

Where I say that PV delivering the rhetorical kill-shot is far more important than launching into some long nuanced discussion about the 'studies' that will go over most normies heads anyway, and would undermine the PV video's rhetorical impact.

i.e. When you got a good thing going, that is not the time to critique your allies.

And having HOPE is always better than the alternative.

Always. Morale is important.

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 07:24:34 PM
You can vote your way INTO communism, but you don't vote your way out.
...

Ahh... But as the former USSR and Eastern Block has shown – you can collapse your way out of it!

It just depends on which side is more culturally resilient.

The only effective response is to make parallel institutions and vote with your feet/dollars. Exactly as this place and associated content creators have shown. The woke have won, but that doesn't mean there can't be a strong, hard-core of counterculture. The Amish don't despair that the secular and modern world has "won". They live and thrive in their corner, and teach their values to their children. They have been extraordinarily successful, by the way, in an evolutionary sense.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 21, 2021, 11:23:36 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!

My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.