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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: RPGPundit on July 19, 2021, 09:54:25 AM

Title: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 19, 2021, 09:54:25 AM
Hasbro caught trying to brainwash toddlers with CRT identity politics, while Wizard's game designers are mental/emotional adolescents.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: hedgehobbit on July 19, 2021, 11:40:03 AM
Ever passing day just confirms that I was right when I decided not to let my kids play D&D.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 19, 2021, 11:42:55 AM
A lot of the things we talk about are posed are viewpoints: this is verifiable proof that there is an agenda.
This guy can't be put to the sword, using the traditional tactics of being dismissed, maligned and cancelled, due to modern social climate, and I love it.

Excellent find and video.

This brave guy did far more damage to Hasbro and WotC than our lack of funding their projects ever could.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: sureshot on July 19, 2021, 11:45:19 AM
Does anyone have a link?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 19, 2021, 11:46:47 AM
I assume it's ok to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwN8NFRLpo8
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2021, 12:11:51 PM
I assume it's ok to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwN8NFRLpo8

Buh! Buh! But it's Project Veriatas! [/s]
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: horsesoldier on July 19, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
Leftists: It's ok because it goes over kids heads

Also leftists: 3 year olds are racist

Incidentally, honest little kids can give you some hilarious insights about race. They just don't know any better.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 19, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
The thing that really hits home for me is how this well-spoken person discusses how they've been personally slandered when expressing a sensible viewpoint that shows the sometimes farcical assumptions being made.  That's pathetic and does remind me strongly how heavy that trend exists in our RPG hobby.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: JeffB on July 19, 2021, 01:04:40 PM
That training video is sick.

The whisteblower deserves a medal.

Like Pundit says- don't give money to people who hate you.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 19, 2021, 01:50:51 PM
This is just beautiful.  The truth comes out, and it looks like Lloth / Lolth is running Hasbro.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 19, 2021, 02:13:02 PM
Hasbro just guaranteed I won't be buying any of their products for a long while, if ever again.

I'll be sailing the seven seas if I need anything of theirs.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: palaeomerus on July 19, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
GI Joe does not fight for America, Hot Wheels run on solar subsidies that make your gas prices higher, and the Transformers do not believe that one day "All will be one". Instead they are all "Unicron did nothing wrong" now.  My Little Pony is the People's Pony.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: palaeomerus on July 19, 2021, 03:57:51 PM
The Autobots will be changing their name to the Publibots and the Decepticons are now the Disinfocons and they are not permitted to speak. Energon is what killed Cybertron. They needed unions and mass transit bills to save them. Honk honk.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 19, 2021, 05:34:06 PM
More to be added.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Crusader X on July 19, 2021, 05:50:11 PM
I'm glad I stopped buying WotC products years ago.  The OSR is better in every way.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 19, 2021, 05:52:18 PM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Some might argue the point, but how is this any different from TSR (part deux) as a company, getting lambasted over far less, and that seemed an a-ok topic to liberally throw around without the ban hammers coming out.  What a double standard.

So glad this forum exists, at the least, to provide a differing viewpoint on the pushed narrative.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Armchair Gamer on July 19, 2021, 06:08:44 PM
GI Joe does not fight for America, Hot Wheels run on solar subsidies that make your gas prices higher, and the Transformers do not believe that one day "All will be one". Instead they are all "Unicron did nothing wrong" now.  My Little Pony is the People's Pony.

  Hot Wheels is Mattel, and we should find out on Friday if they're ahead of or behind the curve on this road to the Abyss. :)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: dkabq on July 19, 2021, 08:26:37 PM
Ever passing day just confirms that I was right when I decided not to let my kids play D&D.

Fortunately the OSR has many better and more palatable alternatives.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 19, 2021, 08:43:53 PM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Why would there be a peep?  Thats their LG goon squads going out doing Gawds work.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 19, 2021, 11:23:08 PM
In a sane world the President and managing director of Hasbro would thank Mr. Johnson for outing the Marxism infiltrators in Hasbro's marketing and HR departments. He would then fire them all and Make Mr. Johnson a full time employee.

In this world Mr. Johnson is totally fired for fine-print employment violations and is now blacklisted.


Pundits video made some good points and we can look to South Africa a s a good indicator of how things go. And we should also be reading good histories of the Spanish civil war.

Apartheid was a massive mistake. The Boers wanted the benefits of cheap African labor without having to live in the same society as them. Trying to have your cake and eat it too always goes wrong. Always. A large group held down as second class citizens was infiltrated by Marxists; what could possibly go wrong??

That being said, by every objective social and economic measure; Black South Africans quality of life has absolutely gone through the floor in the post-apartheid era. We are seeing the same here in slow motion with the Marxist BLM and defund the police movements (Although they are coming in on the tail end of 50 years of  equal protection under the law.), It doesn't matter what you give them. Marxists will always run it into the ground. Always.

The President and managing director of Hasbro is a spineless worm who will kneel to the mob.

Make no mistake, this is BIG news and it is being watched by everyone. Especially the ones that are currently pretending that it doesn't exist.

And when Mr. Johnson is officially fired and blacklisted, WOTC will be empowered to turn up the woke dial on D&D just that much more.

Form the Wokeoso point of view most everything is going their  way right now in society. They are feeling their oats and are going to start to make a big push on things in the near future.

Things will get worse before they get better.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mishihari on July 20, 2021, 03:28:28 AM
Now on Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/hasbro-whistleblower-says-company-to-push-crt-through-games-training-says-6-month-olds-can-be-racist

This appeared shortly after I forwarded the youtube link to their news suggestion email address.  Wish I could take credit, but I bet a lot of people did the same.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 20, 2021, 04:32:56 AM
Thanks guys, keep sharing!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 20, 2021, 05:18:31 AM
Now on Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/hasbro-whistleblower-says-company-to-push-crt-through-games-training-says-6-month-olds-can-be-racist

This appeared shortly after I forwarded the youtube link to their news suggestion email address.  Wish I could take credit, but I bet a lot of people did the same.


Rock on dude!!!  Beautiful.  Just Beautiful.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Prairie Dragon on July 20, 2021, 05:19:20 AM
How many of the people involved are trained educators or psychologists?  Do they really have enough knowledge to make a game that can be used to 'brainwash' an infant or juvenile?  Or are they just trying to highjack a hobby?  It has been said a million times, nothing can replace solid parenting.  Personally, I doubt they will have much success now that their agenda has been exposed.  I think RPG's are set to be played by a very small number of people again and that may not be a bad trend at all.  After the purge, the numbers will quietly grow again. 
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 20, 2021, 05:29:08 AM
I'm glad I stopped buying WotC products years ago.  The OSR is better in every way.

I stopped in 2014, after buying (and giving away) the three base books of D&D 5E. Over the years I filled some gaps in my 3/3.5E collection but that was it.

My current "collecting mania" is limited to CoC 7E - which is pushing out some wonderful books (the two-volumes Malleus Monstrorum is amazing) and the games by Free League Publishing (Alien, Coriolis and Tales from the Loop). For D&D I already have 3.5E and my players are happy with that. Full stop.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 20, 2021, 05:47:57 AM
How many of the people involved are trained educators or psychologists?  Do they really have enough knowledge to make a game that can be used to 'brainwash' an infant or juvenile?  Or are they just trying to highjack a hobby?  It has been said a million times, nothing can replace solid parenting.
Sadly, some parents still "delegate" their duties to games, videogames and television (or the equivalent, like YT).

Anyway, my earliest memory about "race" is when I was 9 years old, and our teacher used "Roots" (the original TV miniseries) to talk about slavery and racism. All of us kids rooted (no pun intended) for the slaves. We also used the Italian word for "nigger" ("negro") to describe their race.

I still remember the day when our teacher told us to start using "nero" ("black") instead of "negro", because the latter was an offensive term. We were puzzled and curious (how could simply dropping a letter make a difference?) and our teacher stalled because she didn't knew either (or she was unable to explain the concept in simple terms: I guess that she read some article on the matter and decided to teach us a new word). We kids shrugged, adopted "nero" and moved on.

Anyway, we were white kids in elementary school and we spontaneously supported the oppressed: amazing, uhu?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: sureshot on July 20, 2021, 09:06:25 AM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Some might argue the point, but how is this any different from TSR (part deux) as a company, getting lambasted over far less, and that seemed an a-ok topic to liberally throw around without the ban hammers coming out.  What a double standard.

So glad this forum exists, at the least, to provide a differing viewpoint on the pushed narrative.

One would think Rpg.net and Enworld would be all over this, except it does not follow those sites narrative on anything and everything. Otherwise the other forums silence is neither surprising or coincidental.

After looking at the link the other so called more progressive forums are silent imo because the whistleblower is not a white person. So by their own rules if they say anything negative they would be racist and needing to check their privilege lol.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 20, 2021, 09:20:57 AM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Some might argue the point, but how is this any different from TSR (part deux) as a company, getting lambasted over far less, and that seemed an a-ok topic to liberally throw around without the ban hammers coming out.  What a double standard.

So glad this forum exists, at the least, to provide a differing viewpoint on the pushed narrative.

One would think Rpg.net and Enworld would be all over this, except it does not follow those sites narrative on anything and everything. Otherwise the other forums silence is neither surprising or coincidental.

After looking at the link the other so called more progressive forums are silent imo because the whistleblower is not a white person. So by their own rules if they say anything negative they would be racist and needing to check their privilege lol.

The way they get around that is to say that the person has "Internalized X". Racism or misogyny or whatever.

It won't be long before this guy gets called an Uncle Tom. Seen it happen to all the black people who don't follow the woke agenda.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Omega on July 20, 2021, 10:09:57 AM
Yes, if you are a minoritie or disabled who disagree with the cult then you are un-minoritied or un-disabled as they make some made up psycobabble about internallizing oppression or being a "offense supporter" or god knows what the hell fake terms they invent for the occasion.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: tenbones on July 20, 2021, 10:24:37 AM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Some might argue the point, but how is this any different from TSR (part deux) as a company, getting lambasted over far less, and that seemed an a-ok topic to liberally throw around without the ban hammers coming out.  What a double standard.

So glad this forum exists, at the least, to provide a differing viewpoint on the pushed narrative.

It's the Fight Club Cult. They *believe* in CRT. Why talk about it when they know fully well to talk about it, jeopardizes the the indoctrination effect.

The real question is for the NPC normies that blindly consume - or those slavishly consuming Hasbro products (you know, like D&D/Magic etc.): How much are you willing to sacrifice your consumer choices over this practice? Clearly it doesn't seem to impact Nike or Apple based on their horrid practices (which is much more egregious than Hasbro in this case). So I expect those on the margins to continue rationalizing this away.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 20, 2021, 11:04:24 AM
Daily Mail UK and others are starting to pick the story up.

The more it is spread, the harder it will be for other news outlets to not comment on it in some way, that may have a different readership demographic.  It's an interesting litmus test of how pervasive selective journalism has taken hold, even in the main venues.

It will be very interesting to see if Hasbro stays mute on this and for how long.  I'm imagining they are in some serious damage control mode, figuring out what to do.  A lot of potential purchasing power at stake here.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: sureshot on July 20, 2021, 11:24:55 AM
Still a whole bunch of the so called progressives can’t really lash out too much because again even if they do they look bad. If your saying that POC must always be believed one can’t them also say they are lying. The. They expose themselves as hypocrites.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 20, 2021, 11:34:04 AM
Perhaps more people will realise that these large corporations only care about their financials and shareholders, first and foremost.  Anyone who thinks that they represent their social issues for any other reason than social trends and carefully examined demographic expectations for profit is a fool.

Best case scenario, it helps get rid of the juggernaut of RPG's that to most, represents popular opinion in the hobby.
I'm all for OSR and people finding their perfect game, whether it is deemed woke, right-wing, whatever, as long as it lessens the grip of a large corporation acting as the main mouthpiece of the hobby.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: JeffB on July 20, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
I know this is straying outside the RPG topic, but topics like this being discussed is one of the main reasons I come here.  Not a freakin' peep from what I can see at other 'places'.

Some might argue the point, but how is this any different from TSR (part deux) as a company, getting lambasted over far less, and that seemed an a-ok topic to liberally throw around without the ban hammers coming out.  What a double standard.

So glad this forum exists, at the least, to provide a differing viewpoint on the pushed narrative.

One would think Rpg.net and Enworld would be all over this, except it does not follow those sites narrative on anything and everything. Otherwise the other forums silence is neither surprising or coincidental.

After looking at the link the other so called more progressive forums are silent imo because the whistleblower is not a white person. So by their own rules if they say anything negative they would be racist and needing to check their privilege lol.

The way they get around that is to say that the person has "Internalized X". Racism or misogyny or whatever.

It won't be long before this guy gets called an Uncle Tom. Seen it happen to all the black people who don't follow the woke agenda.

He indicated he had already been called an "Uncle Tom" by people he interacted with about the training film, and that he would likely be labeled a "black, white supremacist".   The whole thing is FUBAR.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 20, 2021, 01:53:41 PM
Conscious Kid is a very fucked up and unethical group. I've seen them push lies in the past, back when they were arguing publicly that Cat in the Hat is blackface. I'm disheartened to learn just how many companies are now using them for consultations, given how nutso some of their views and actions in the past are.

Of course I am also no fan of Project Veritas as I've seen them lie in the past too. But this is a direct interview, and then others do direct interviews, and nothing looks false or misleading in the guy actually doing the whistleblowing so far.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 20, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
One thing I almost never fail to notice is how the "propaganda" is full of holes.

Take this video: "Studies show... studies say..." Which studies? Done by whom? Links? Books? Peer reviewed papers?

One would imagine that a peep talk done to a mega corporation would include serious references, maybe the appearance of recognised experts. Here we have two random dudes who clearly were filming themselves with an iPhone 4 while spewing "truths" without any evidence and support.

The amazing thing is that, were I actually interested in inserting CRT in my products, I would still have ditched these two as crocks. "Unprofessional CRT cult leaders" is really a new low. 😶
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rgalex on July 20, 2021, 03:28:56 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: FingerRod on July 20, 2021, 05:03:28 PM
One thing I almost never fail to notice is how the "propaganda" is full of holes.

Take this video: "Studies show... studies say..." Which studies? Done by whom? Links? Books? Peer reviewed papers?

One would imagine that a peep talk done to a mega corporation would include serious references, maybe the appearance of recognised experts. Here we have two random dudes who clearly were filming themselves with an iPhone 4 while spewing "truths" without any evidence and support.

The amazing thing is that, were I actually interested in inserting CRT in my products, I would still have ditched these two as crocks. "Unprofessional CRT cult leaders" is really a new low. 😶

Exactly. When Wikipedia has stronger citation requirements than your corporate training vendor, it is time to pause and think about what the universe is trying to tell you.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 05:54:27 PM
The studies do support a lot of the claims made in the video within the first half of the Project Veritas video. Studies of babies reacting to skin color and other social cues goes back decades, it's not really controversial, and it's not Critical Race Theory. Tribalism and defining in and out groups is fundamental to human social organizations, and that's literally among the first things kids pick up.

That's why I think the PV video is very weak, because it starts by presenting correct information as outrageous. Babies and young children pick up cues about in and out groups. That's not the problem. The problem is it doesn't look at the full scope of how people think. It's similar to the implicit bias tests, which are used to claim people are bigots by flashing images of different people on the screen, and then measuring how the subject reacts to people of different races. While it's true that most people show some degree of favoritism, it's literally just measuring how people react in the first instant. It doesn't account for all the other processes that occur in our brain. There are layers of responses that occur after that first instant, where different parts of the brain jump in, and react to that first reaction, often completely overriding it. A lot of what the pre-frontal cortex does, for instance, is overriding the quicker response of the amygdala. This doesn't happen at the conscious level, but phrased in conscious terms, it's basically the equivalent of reacting negatively to someone, and then realizing your reaction was unfair, and trying to compensate. Now the initial reaction does matter -- if you're deciding whether to shoot someone, the higher parts of your brain may not have time to react -- but in most social situations, it's almost completely irrelevant, because that initial reaction will be overridden. It's not amoral to correct an initial response. In fact, you can make a strong moral argument that someone who does that is more moral than someone who didn't have the negative response in the first place.

So unless you look at the full picture, you're just cherry picking details to support a narrative. The different parts of the brain develop at different developmental stages in babies, children, and young adults; and they need to all be considered before you can draw conclusions about bias.

If anyone's interested in how the human mind works, including moral development, I'd recommend Behave by Robert Sapolsky. It's a massive, magisterial tome that covers everything from neurology, to genetics, all the way through psychology and culture.

The second half of the PV video is more to the point, because it's highlighting a lot of the loaded jargon being used, the improper conclusions being drawn, and the questionable recommendations of the trainers. I would have liked a deeper dive, because it mostly just comes across as gibberish with bad intent.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 20, 2021, 06:38:05 PM
...
So unless you look at the full picture, you're just cherry picking details to support a narrative. ...

Dialectic does not win arguments with normies; Rhetoric does.

PV going into the nuance of 'the studies' would just weaken their argument with the average person and make it easier for people to dismiss the whistleblowers complaints about CRT as much ado about nothing.

Hammering CR theory with the biggest Rhetorical hammers that you can get is the only way to win.

The battle with the Left is not a gentlemen's debate.

It is a knife fight in the gutter.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 06:58:48 PM
Dialectic does not win arguments with normies; Rhetoric does.
Fortunately, this is an obscure halal game board. There's no chance a key battle in the cultural war will be waged among these bits, so there's nothing to win, and therefore absolutely no reason to engage in win-at-any-cost tactics. We might as well have civil and rational discussions, instead.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 20, 2021, 07:10:14 PM
Dialectic does not win arguments with normies; Rhetoric does.
Fortunately, this is an obscure halal game board. There's no chance a key battle in the cultural war will be waged among these bits, so there's nothing to win, and therefore absolutely no reason to engage in win-at-any-cost tactics. We might as well have civil and rational discussions, instead.

Yeah, thats us: civil and rational.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: BronzeDragon on July 20, 2021, 07:10:51 PM
Things will get worse before they get better.

This assumes things will get better.

I have no such confidence.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 20, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
The studies do support a lot of the claims made in the video within the first half of the Project Veritas video. Studies of babies reacting to skin color and other social cues goes back decades, it's not really controversial, and it's not Critical Race Theory. Tribalism and defining in and out groups is fundamental to human social organizations, and that's literally among the first things kids pick up.

How the CRT Race Grifters present it is totally disingenuous. As I stated in my video.

Quote
That's why I think the PV video is very weak, because it starts by presenting correct information as outrageous.

Their conclusions, that "sixth month old white babies are racists" (and that non-white toddlers are not and cannot be racist) are absolutely outrageous.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 20, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
Dialectic does not win arguments with normies; Rhetoric does.
Fortunately, this is an obscure halal game board. There's no chance a key battle in the cultural war will be waged among these bits, so there's nothing to win, and therefore absolutely no reason to engage in win-at-any-cost tactics. We might as well have civil and rational discussions, instead.

The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 20, 2021, 07:52:58 PM
Dialectic does not win arguments with normies; Rhetoric does.
Fortunately, this is an obscure halal game board. There's no chance a key battle in the cultural war will be waged among these bits, so there's nothing to win, and therefore absolutely no reason to engage in win-at-any-cost tactics. We might as well have civil and rational discussions, instead.

Yeah, thats us: civil and rational.

It's not them, either...
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 20, 2021, 08:04:33 PM
...
Fortunately, this is an obscure halal game board. There's no chance a key battle in the cultural war will be waged among these bits, so there's nothing to win, and therefore absolutely no reason to engage in win-at-any-cost tactics. We might as well have civil and rational discussions, instead.

No problem here.

IMHO it also depends on the poster. For instance I generally don't descend into outright mockery or the use of profanity when debating someone.

And most of the posters here are pretty good about things if you say "I didn't consider that..."

A few are annoying pendants, and some have serious reading comprehension issues. But mostly this is a decent group.

I think that the disconnect between us in the case of the PV video is mainly this:

...That's why I think the PV video is very weak, because it starts by presenting correct information as outrageous. ...So unless you look at the full picture, you're just cherry picking details to support a narrative. ..."

Now I totally get your underlying reasoning. And objectively speaking, you are 100% right.

But IMHO, for the normie world none of that nuance matters. In fact it is actually detrimental to your side to even acknowledge that it is there let alone actually talk about it.

PV is doing what they have to do to deliver the rhetorical kill shot.

And in the wider world of SJW's vs. everyone else; those are the tactics that you need to employ if you are going to win normie hearts and minds.



...
This assumes things will get better.

I have no such confidence.

Depends on what and individual imagines to be "better" as well.

Within the next 30 years there will be either total a SJW victory and subjection of their enemies. Or...

A BIG backlash is going to result.

Shit is gonna get ugly. There will be no "let bygones be bygones" when the dust settles. More like: "Lets make the rubble bounce!"

We are in the mist of a cultural battle of two opposing and irreconcilable social paradigms.

Things are not going to settle back on the (by today's standards) centrist 1990's quasi-egalitarian American social mores and values.

American and Western society as a whole has given Marxist ideas and counter culture a lot of slack post WW2. Which has allowed the ideas and movements leading up to modern SJW's Maoists to push their agendas with very little effective pushback.

If the SJW's are defeated; that leash is getting jerked back like a motherfucker.

And the further along the SJW Maoists get with their agenda before they are made low; the bigger the backlash will be.

That is why Creepy Joe Biden becoming the Not-president is actually a bad thing for people who identify as political centrists. Or who lean left, but hate the SJW's.

Trump was the good cop.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 08:13:13 PM
The studies do support a lot of the claims made in the video within the first half of the Project Veritas video. Studies of babies reacting to skin color and other social cues goes back decades, it's not really controversial, and it's not Critical Race Theory. Tribalism and defining in and out groups is fundamental to human social organizations, and that's literally among the first things kids pick up.

How the CRT Race Grifters present it is totally disingenuous. As I stated in my video.

Quote
That's why I think the PV video is very weak, because it starts by presenting correct information as outrageous.

Their conclusions, that "sixth month old white babies are racists" (and that non-white toddlers are not and cannot be racist) are absolutely outrageous.
Those are the conclusions being drawn by the whistleblower, not in the snippets of the training that are shown in the first half of the PV video. Which is why I think the PV video is weak -- it's not supporting its conclusions for the first half, and the second half doesn't dive deep enough. I'd like to see more of the damning material, and less of someone drawing conclusions based on material we haven't seen.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 08:14:32 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: BronzeDragon on July 20, 2021, 08:26:45 PM
I do believe you're correct in general.

My only issue is I don't see the levers of power available to stem the tide. They all seem to be being pulled in the same direction, just that some people are trying to pull back on some of them, mostly unsuccessfully I might add.

It's fine to talk of a backlash, but what are the levers this backlash is pulling on? What is the real effect of a few parents raging at their local school board, when the board usually goes on steamrolling their agenda anyway? I know there have been a few victories here and there, but they mostly have taken place in conservative strongholds and minor counties.

My fear is that the US is speeding headlong into an actual Civil War. Except this one won't be fought along a frontline near the Mason-Dixon line, it will be fought between houses in the same neighborhood, in the parking lots of high schools, between different floors of apartment complexes and all along the country.

As Pundit said, this is an all-out fight. Nobody is gonna take second place, just as in many other revolutions worldwide. The tensions are increasing, becoming more and more palpable to regular people, and the shameful display of the authorities last year regarding riots and such is a sign that more of that is to come.

RPGs are simply another battleground in this "pre-war" series of skirmishes. One side pushes in, the other side gives, and gives some more...until there's no more ground to give.

Once the arguments are exhausted and people have spent their verbal ammunition, real ammo is sure to follow.

Watching as an outsider gives me a mixed sense of fascination and fear, because I know once the ball starts rolling in the US, it will eventually start rolling everywhere else in the Western world, which means I'm both metaphorically and realistically next.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 20, 2021, 09:03:31 PM
I do believe you're correct in general.

My only issue is I don't see the levers of power available to stem the tide. They all seem to be being pulled in the same direction, just that some people are trying to pull back on some of them, mostly unsuccessfully I might add.
I think the war is lost. When the kids have been converted, you've lost the future. Or at least the next generation.

Which is why I think talking rationally has value. Think of neoliberalism -- before the 70s, the whole world leaned heavily (democratic) socialist. The few free market types were relegated to the fringes, and had no power. But then stagflation happened. Both inflation and unemployment rose at the same time, making people miserable, and the keynesians had no answer. So the public began looking for someone with a solution. That's when the Mont Pelerin Society stepped in. They had been outcasts nobody paid attention to, but suddenly it was their ideas laying the foundation for the next half a century. The reason this happened was because they had been working on the intellectual framework, building a base of thinkers and theory, and all that was ready when the crisis happened.

The modern leftists used a similar approach. They laid the intellectual framework, and then waited for the time for it to emerge. This goes back further than the origins of Critical Race Theory, or Critical Theory in general, or even postmodernism, though those were all steps along the way. It can be traced back to the Frankfort School, who called this approach the Long March through the Institutions. They worked not really in the shadows, but in the fringes of public discourse, focusing not on the levers or power or immediate victories, but on the long process of building an intellectual tradition and developing a critical mass of supportive scholars and scholarship, and focusing more on theory and education than practical, short term results.

So even if the current war is lost, there is a path forward. And it's not screeching or salting the earth. It's building a framework, and waiting for the opportunity. That's why this fuss parents are making about CRT in schools and toy manufacturers like Hasbro, even if I think their solutions are off base, are at least targeting the right things. Retaking control over how children are taught is fundamental.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on July 20, 2021, 10:08:50 PM
The studies do support a lot of the claims made in the video within the first half of the Project Veritas video. Studies of babies reacting to skin color and other social cues goes back decades, it's not really controversial, and it's not Critical Race Theory. Tribalism and defining in and out groups is fundamental to human social organizations, and that's literally among the first things kids pick up.
I think this is critical to overcoming wokeness. I say wokeness is a 1-2 punch. A cloak and dagger. And its only real power is having set up the cloak for over 100 years. The daggers have only started to come out over the last 10 or so.

There are so many assumptions that make up that cloak that put people on the backfoot even on this forum, stuff like:

Diversity is a virtue and not a nuetral trait.
You can't descriminate, and discrimination is always a negative trait.
Validating emotions is always positive.
Victims are always blameless.
People can ultimately be 100% rational.
Politeness is always a virtue.
Brashness is always a vice.
Science is magic and not a whole bunch of people with different opinions.
People are always societal results and have no control over themselves.

The daggers are: None of the above matters we just want power over you. Power because I don't trust you with autonomy, Power for my self validation, or power for powers sake.

As long as people believe in the cloak, they will be spending time ineptly flailing against its non-logic while the daggers of control are thrust apon them.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 20, 2021, 10:51:08 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.


Bravo!!!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Prairie Dragon on July 21, 2021, 03:38:54 AM
Someone rational will try to investigate.  That someone might appear to be an ally.  When that fails, their madness will make them turn on themselves and their targets will the very children they claim to be educating and protecting.  Well, that is after they drink their own kind of "Kool Aid".  I wonder who the SJW's Jim Jones will be? 

Maybe it won't go down in such a dramatic way.  My point is, they have a higher chance of being self-destructive than organizing their own victory. 

The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: BronzeDragon on July 21, 2021, 04:04:22 AM
My point is, they have a higher chance of being self-destructive than organizing their own victory.

This is another point on which I think we're not on solid footing.

Groups that seem unstable, sometimes downright self-devouring can, and often historically did, rise to the top and crush their opposition. The communists in Russia from 1917-21 are the clearest example of this.

From the outside, it seems these groups are always on the verge of collapse because of their internal inconsistencies and general low character of their members. Make no mistake though, that is no guarantee that the outcome will be the hoped-for collapse.

The poor russian people, and all the others that were eventually enveloped by the Soviet Union, had to wait for almost 80 years to see the fall of the regime.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 21, 2021, 08:01:45 AM
They only self-destruct after ruining everything else.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 21, 2021, 08:24:38 AM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.

Anyway, my belief that wokeism in popular culture will not survive much longer comes from a single consequence: loss of money. Star Wars got woke and turned a 4+ billion dollars investment by Disney into money down the drain. Terminator got woke and, God wills, it definitely killed the franchise. The new Charlie's Angels got woke and it was a bloodbath.

Black Widow got so woke that they even tried to rewrite the past. "Natasha Romanoff was hypersexualised in the earlier movies! It was time for her character to have a proper treatment!" ---> Black Widow was never "hypersexualised": she was an astoundingly intelligent and competent spy who used sex to run circles around male characters. Her first scene in "The Avengers" showed exactly this and it was one of the best in the movie. Anyway, the new "Black Widow" rode on the hype during the first week but totally collapsed in the second, so, there you are.

Disney is slowing realising that kick ass stories in "The Mandalorian" with a kick ass Luke Skywalker (instead of presenting him a wino) restarted the sales of toys and merchandise. That's a sliver in the pop culture panorama (and it is funny to talk about Star Wars as a "sliver") but it shows a way out of the hole - even if it will took years.

Talking of Disney, they are so riding the "diversity, inclusiveness, equality" approach that they are boasting about how they will now embrace... uhm... what they have always embraced - because they already had Jasmine, Pocahontas, Esmeralda, Mulan... so, what the difference will be?

[For the curious: a latino Little Mermaid - because the depths of the sea require extra melanin - and a black Snow White.]

True: seeing the Tolkien Society devolving into a megaphone for decerebrate wokeness is scary. https://www.tolkiensociety.org/events/tolkien-society-summer-seminar/

Interestingly enough, however, they announced that the seminaries would have been broadcasted on Zoom. They weren't. Nor, as I write, they put the events on their YouTube page - as they promised would do. The reason, IMHO, is that the average, run-of-the-mill, Tolkien fan would just obliterate "papers" like "The Problematic Perimeters of Elrond Half-elven and Ronald English-Catholic" or the absolutely stunning "Something Mighty Queer: Destabilizing Cishetero Amatonormativity in the Works of Tolkien" which gives us this mighty gem:

"My project draws from intersectional feminist and postmodern queer theories as well as recent Tolkien scholarship to examine how Tolkien’s depictions of characters, relationships, and ways of loving and existing destabilize contemporary cishetero amatonormative structures. While I offer a queer reading, I do not focus on eroticism or romance; rather, I look at how various characters, relationships, and races complicate essentialist understandings of gender and cisheteronormativity."

Let's put aside the fact that I read the above three times and still I don't know about what it is about... Is someone still wondering why the Tolkien Society neither did stream this nor put this on YouTube?

A final hint that they actually don't know what they are doing. The director of the live Snow White, Marc Webb, actually tackled the key question: "How can a character named for the color of her skin be played by a black actress?" with the following statement:

"Rachel's extraordinary vocal abilities are just the beginning of her gifts. Her strength, intelligence and optimism will become an integral part of rediscovering the joy in this classic Disney fairytale."

Notice how he doesn't answer the question. Even more worrying (for them) is how simple this answer could have been: "In our retelling of the story, Snow White gets her name from the fact that the day she was born was unusually snowy." There you go: problem solved. Not everyone will like it, but you solve a narrative knot with a narrative idea - which should be your job, not mine.

So, IMHO, we will have at least three high-profile failures: The live "The Little Mermaid", the live "Snow White" and LotR on Amazon. I don't see a way out of this. Once the haemorrhage of money will reach the critical level, it will be the beancounters the ones who lead the pushback, and it will be mighty.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 11:00:35 AM
A final hint that they actually don't know what they are doing. The director of the live Snow White, Marc Webb, actually tackled the key question: "How can a character named for the color of her skin be played by a black actress?" with the following statement:

"Rachel's extraordinary vocal abilities are just the beginning of her gifts. Her strength, intelligence and optimism will become an integral part of rediscovering the joy in this classic Disney fairytale."

Notice how he doesn't answer the question. Even more worrying (for them) is how simple this answer could have been: "In our retelling of the story, Snow White gets her name from the fact that the day she was born was unusually snowy." There you go: problem solved. Not everyone will like it, but you solve a narrative knot with a narrative idea - which should be your job, not mine.
Comparing the two answers shows how different Webb's worldview is from yours. The director is responding to the question by focusing on the actress's talents, and superlatively praising her. Since he's defending her qualifications, he's clearly assuming what's being questioned is her capabilities. But that's not what the question asks, in a literal reading. it's mostly focused on Snow White, the character. The only references to the actress is the two words at the end: "black actress". How is that an attack on her ability? "Actress" can't be interpreted that way, so we're left with "black". He is assuming that referring to her as black is an implicit attack on her ability. While he's trying to defend her, the underlying assumption that she needs to be defended in the first place is infantilizing.

Your answer, by contrast, focuses entirely on the in-setting justification. You're not imputing anything about her talents or her race, you're just addressing the question as written, specifically how to reconcile the apparent conflict between the physical color of actress's skin and the adjective in the character's name, within the setting. To you, "black" is just a color not a whole package of implicit assumptions.

It really highlights how seeing everything through the lens of "everyone is racist" twists even the most straightforward of questions, and is patronizing toward the people it's purporting to defend. The last half of the Project Veritas video shows the same mindset, in the jargon and shibboleths used by Hasbro's trainers.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: KingCheops on July 21, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.


I used to read it multiple times a day but thankfully red-pilled myself.  It's all outrage click-bait and there's other ways to consume content from Dellingpole, Bokhari, and the other worthwhile creators there without exposing myself to the right wing version of the REEEEEE woman.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:03:55 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:10:06 PM
I do believe you're correct in general.

My only issue is I don't see the levers of power available to stem the tide. They all seem to be being pulled in the same direction, just that some people are trying to pull back on some of them, mostly unsuccessfully I might add.
I think the war is lost. When the kids have been converted, you've lost the future. Or at least the next generation.

Which is why I think talking rationally has value. Think of neoliberalism -- before the 70s, the whole world leaned heavily (democratic) socialist. The few free market types were relegated to the fringes, and had no power. But then stagflation happened. Both inflation and unemployment rose at the same time, making people miserable, and the keynesians had no answer. So the public began looking for someone with a solution. That's when the Mont Pelerin Society stepped in. They had been outcasts nobody paid attention to, but suddenly it was their ideas laying the foundation for the next half a century. The reason this happened was because they had been working on the intellectual framework, building a base of thinkers and theory, and all that was ready when the crisis happened.

The modern leftists used a similar approach. They laid the intellectual framework, and then waited for the time for it to emerge. This goes back further than the origins of Critical Race Theory, or Critical Theory in general, or even postmodernism, though those were all steps along the way. It can be traced back to the Frankfort School, who called this approach the Long March through the Institutions. They worked not really in the shadows, but in the fringes of public discourse, focusing not on the levers or power or immediate victories, but on the long process of building an intellectual tradition and developing a critical mass of supportive scholars and scholarship, and focusing more on theory and education than practical, short term results.

So even if the current war is lost, there is a path forward. And it's not screeching or salting the earth. It's building a framework, and waiting for the opportunity. That's why this fuss parents are making about CRT in schools and toy manufacturers like Hasbro, even if I think their solutions are off base, are at least targeting the right things. Retaking control over how children are taught is fundamental.

My great-grandfather believed in rational discussion. He believed in talking and trying to convince. Not surprising, he was a Judge, an intellectual man of letters. He had great admiration for the Germans, and spoke perfectly fluent German without an accent. He was convinced that the German people were incredibly rational people and that they could be talked to and made to see reason.

None of that stopped the Germans from arresting him, putting him in a concentration camp and killing him.

You can't reason your way out of this with a group of murderous cultists. You can't just wait it out and expect that people will gradually change perspective.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 21, 2021, 06:16:19 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.
Fuck you too.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 07:24:34 PM
I think the war is lost. When the kids have been converted, you've lost the future.

The future of America is civil war, secession or submission to marxism.

With submission as the most likely option.

As the Right has no appetite for using the 2A for anything but defense, the left gains ground each day - without fear of repercussion.

However, that leaves Red State Secession as an escape path, because this isn't a political battle, but cultural battle for America and Western Civilization which are all swiftly collapsing.

A seceded half-nation could take command of its culture and purge all the marxist elements. Of course, secession requires immediate movement because the left only needs to convert/destroy one more generation of children.

As the left controls all the levers of cultural power - academia, media, Big Tech - and the Right knelt to the Shamdemic allowing unhealable scars on GenZ and their younger siblings, secession must begin now.

As for the role of Hasbro and WotC, they are elements of entertaiment, and like all of Hollywood, they are tools of marxist control of the young. As we heard the SF gay choir proudly proclaim, "we're coming for your children, we're going to convert your children", its high time to understand the leftists are NOT kidding.


Which is why I think talking rationally has value.

Doubtful.

I see no difference between roaring or debating because everyone has already made their choice where they stand. We can chatter endlessly, but few (if any) are going to change their opinion on SJWs, the election steal, the shamdemic, the experimental vax, or any other culture war fronts.

At best, we're clarifying our thoughts for ourselves.

Most likely, we're just amusing theRPGsite Lurkers (hey kids!) and typing out some hopium & copium as our nations fall.


So even if the current war is lost, there is a path forward. And it's not screeching or salting the earth. It's building a framework, and waiting for the opportunity.

We're way past the time to build frameworks EXCEPT if you're building them within a new nation seceded from the marxist culture.

You can vote your way INTO communism, but you don't vote your way out.

And to refocus the thread on the RPG CULTURE WAR...

Here's what I got from the leftist retards of Onyx Path regarding their new Mage book:

Climate change threatens to destroy life as we know it. Religious fundamentalism breeds terror around the globe. Diseases, once eradicated in the developed world through vaccination, have returned due to antivaxxer movements. Totalitarian, nationalist governments rise as the Masses succumb to fear of the other. The world stands on the brink of destruction, and it is up to the agents and operatives of the Technocratic Union to save it…or be its ultimate destruction.

You just know the cucks at WotC are burning jealous they can't be as blatant YET with D&D...they gotta wait for 6th edition.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Spinachcat on July 21, 2021, 08:01:02 PM
RPGPundit, are the communists in Uruguay and the rest of Centra/South America feeling empowered by America's quickening collapse?

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

I agree marxism must be fought everywhere.

However, I don't see a path to victory. They've consolidated power and control and the sheep are content to be slaughtered. At best, the fight is about pushing back to wake up a few of the sheep. At worst, the fight is worth it for ourselves - not just to say we stood against them, but to steel for the day when the fight becomes more than words.

Your great-grandfather judge probably never though the trip to the gulag would be his death, just as my peasant relatives didn't know that being marched into the hills atop their village was where they would be gunned down and left to rot. But we know better what the left has planned for us.

If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy. :)

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on July 21, 2021, 08:06:33 PM
In the US, there are more Democrats than there are Americans.
Democrats are told to stay home and not work and that they don't have to pay their rent/mortgage because it's year-round COVID now.
Banks that own all these properties won't survive this.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: David Johansen on July 21, 2021, 08:09:48 PM
I suspect things will start to turn around when the economic implications start to be felt, when people remember how back in the day they didn't go hungry and had rights and the streets were safer.  The governments of the modern day aren't the first to thing they can borrow their way to prosperity and world domination.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 09:31:16 PM
If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy. :)

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.
Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

Not sure what to do with Hasbro, though Hasbro is more a downstream problem. It's where the problems created in academia and the primary school system manifest. I think it's mostly useful as an object lesson in what's being taught, and how it's seeping into other institutions, and thus can be used to bring more attention to the problems upstream.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 21, 2021, 10:01:41 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Greetings!

Pundit, keep the faith, and continue bringing the fight to the Marxists, everywhere, at every opportunity. You are right. Everyone needs to resist them in every way they can, speak up, and get involved.

Our civilization is in serious danger. People need to wake up and fight back, relentlessly!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 21, 2021, 11:23:36 PM
If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy. :)

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.
Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

Not sure what to do with Hasbro, though Hasbro is more a downstream problem. It's where the problems created in academia and the primary school system manifest. I think it's mostly useful as an object lesson in what's being taught, and how it's seeping into other institutions, and thus can be used to bring more attention to the problems upstream.

You don't convert people with reason, you do it with feelings. This is true for 99.99% of people.

Which is why the gay choir deleted the video and quickly went into "It's just a joke dude!". They realized they made a tactical error.

And before anyone says it was just a joke you're aware there were some pedos in that choir right?

Which is why they softpedaled the pedo acceptance movement, make no mistake they still are pushing it, just covertly.

Which is why they are searching for other ways to indoctrinate the children, since now their plot in schools is in the open.

So they need Toys, Games, Comics, TV shows etc to use as indoctrination tools.

I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!

Socialism doesn't work is true and a bad argument.

Socialism is theft and requires murder is also true and a good argument. Point out the immorality of their ideology. Push the right buttons.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 21, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
You don't convert people with reason, you do it with feelings. This is true for 99.99% of people.
Reason is how you correctly identify problems, and target attacks. It's how you build a new intellectual framework. It's not a conversion tool.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 22, 2021, 12:08:48 AM
If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

Pat, please listen to RPGPundit and stand up for just one day. Apparently, you're Neo-Pat and can end all of this SJW idiocy. :)

I joke, but RPGPundit's got a point. More of us need to become more vocal. Many more, and much more vocal. For me, I've been focusing on actively promoting red state secession and "soft-secession" issues.

Although "they'd be finished in a day" requires Shark's method of pushback.
Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, that decentralization of some kind is needed (you favor succession, I favor fighting further centralization and encouraging smaller polities to defy central government dictates), and in the potential duration of totalitarian power structures (though you're more focused communist states, and I'm more focused on the worldwide X-risk).

I do believe more people need to speak up, but I also think there needs to be rational thought and solid intellectual underpinnings, or all that effort will be wasted. This reaction to CRT reminds me a lot of the early Occupy Movement, which focused on some real issues -- growing inequality, stagnant wages, and the rise of the financial class -- but completely missed the real target. They weren't attacking the real culprits, and their proposed solutions would generally make things worse, not better.

A good current example is the push for laws banning CRT from schools. That's based on a real concern, but it targets the wrong group, and is absolutely the wrong solution. Because if you ban CRT without converting all the teachers, what's going to happen? They're going to keep teaching it. They'll just avoid the words "critical race theory", and redefine the term so narrowly it only applies to postgrad courses (we've already seen that). The real problem is the ideologues in the schools, and what they're teaching the children. One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

There is zero percent chance of them letting themselves be accountable like putting cameras in classrooms.

The social "infrastructure" is already built. How many times have we heard someone like Peter Bhogosian say something like, they get emails and messages all the time of people covertly supporting them, but afraid to do it openly? You keep your mouth shut about this stuff or you get socially dogpiled or probably worse, and everyone who isn't converted watches silently praying they're not next.

We're in a pickle, and I don't blame anyone who wants to take more immediate action. Has anyone in history managed to avert something like this? Or does it have to play out to it's bloody conclusion and then the survivors are the ones who pick up the pieces and start over.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 22, 2021, 12:49:30 AM
Yeah, that's why I reacted so dismissively to Pundit's post. It was way over the top. I'm not that influential, and neither is Pundit.

You and I disagree on many specifics, but I think we're both coming from similar places. We both seem to agree the war is lost, …

And that is one of the reasons why you are butting heads: “the war is lost” is a loser mentality, and defeatist talk.



Which is why I think talking rationally has value.

Doubtful.

At best, we're clarifying our thoughts for ourselves.

Most likely, we're just amusing theRPGsite Lurkers (hey kids!) and typing out some hopium & copium as our nations fall.

I somewhat agree with Pat on this one.

Having a place like the RPGSite is very valuable as people can find a place that actually has counterpoints to the mainstream Marxist narratives.

And having threads where we take the SJW’s apart gives people the necessary counterarguments and rhetorical ammo they need to fortify themselves as they encounter the SJW propaganda out in the wild.

That is very important. Just like many of Pundits video’s where he gives the counterarguments to the SJW nonsense infesting the hobby.

But where I disagree with him is when the perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

He would critique the PV video and discuss how the studies are actually correct, yet the CRT Marxists put a bad spin on them.

Where I say that PV delivering the rhetorical kill-shot is far more important than launching into some long nuanced discussion about the ‘studies’ that will go over most normies heads anyway, and would undermine the PV video's rhetorical impact.

i.e. When you got a good thing going, that is not the time to critique your allies.

And having HOPE is always better than the alternative.

Always. Morale is important.



You can vote your way INTO communism, but you don't vote your way out.


Ahh… But as the former USSR and Eastern Block has shown – you can collapse your way out of it!

It just depends on which side is more culturally resilient.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: The_Shadow on July 22, 2021, 01:01:48 AM
The only effective response is to make parallel institutions and vote with your feet/dollars. Exactly as this place and associated content creators have shown. The woke have won, but that doesn't mean there can't be a strong, hard-core of counterculture. The Amish don't despair that the secular and modern world has "won". They live and thrive in their corner, and teach their values to their children. They have been extraordinarily successful, by the way, in an evolutionary sense.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Chris24601 on July 22, 2021, 10:43:53 AM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 22, 2021, 11:13:26 AM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

IMHO, people who filmed themselves and took selfies while, you know, INVADING YOUR CAPITOL - not to mention those who rabidly followed a "shaman guy" cosplaying as Sven from Frozen - should be psychiatrically interned for their own good. Truth is: I feel only sadness for these feeble minded people who provided fertile support for a specific breed of hare-brained politicians - and that will take the fall for them.

Of course fanaticism from Harris (who is not currently enjoying a smooth sailing, BTW) compounds the problem. As does the side of the Aisle that is obstructing any and every attempt to launch a serious investigation in the events of Jan, 6th. (One wonders why... ::))

Re: BLM, "If Athens cries, Sparta doesn't laugh". You can find articles "proving" anything. This one from Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/01/07/figures-show-stark-difference-between-arrests-at-dc-black-lives-matter-protest-and-arrests-at-capitol-hill/?sh=6624238b5706 makes the case that the "double policing standard" is being applied against BLM, not the Capitol protesters. I'm pretty sure that out there there is something by Fox News argumenting the opposite.

I'm Italian. Politically, I don't have a dog in this race. But I have a dog in the pop culture race as a comic book writer, movie geek and in  my RPG hobby. The damage done by wokeism is clear, present and scary. "Cancel culture" can destroy the life of an innocent in a single day with a bunch of lies on Twitter (check what happened to Chris Avellone). "Presumption of innocence until proven guilty", an international human right, doesn't exists anymore in the current climate of hysteria. " In Italy it is, for now, limited to the Twitter cesspool, but it will spread with the adaptation of movies, comics, RPGs and tabletop games. However, as I pointed out over and over, there are three other factors to consider:

1) Woke = fiasco. Star Wars, Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator: Woke Fate, Charlie's Angels, Black Widow, with the list stretching into the cold infinite. "Get Woke, Go Broke" is a motto savagely attacked by wokes - mostly because it is consistently true.

2) The pushback. Wokeism is attacked by Christians, atheists and the left itself - all of which are seeing the devolution of commonly shared human values into a fundamentalist, black and white sort of "religion". You can find a lot of sane arguments against Wokeism out there. These arguments, being sane, have no value. The rest is a mirror of Wokeism. For any Twitter wokestorm you will find Breitbart News. For any Forbes you will find Fox News.

3) Maybe the most accurate description of today's real World. It comes from Alan Moore's "Providence". While in the comic book it is both a metaphor for R'lyeh and a premonition of things to come, I think that, like many of the things Moore writes, it has an universal value:

"There is a concealed country [...] hidden below the society we show the World.
Uncomfortable truth, it lurks beyond our pretences."

This "concealed country" is the one who gives 99% positive reviews to David Chappelle's "Stick and Stones" on Rotten Tomatoes, the truth behind the indignation that "the society shows the World" in the scathing critics' reviews.

It is the country that, at the news of a black Snow White reacts with this kind of "pretence":

(https://www.esquireme.com/public/styles/full_img/public/images/2016/03/30/Italy-Tardelli.jpg?itok=tsmxqGlB)

...But then it will not flock to see the movie, thus revealing the "Uncomfortable truth that lurks beyond. It already happened. Get Woke? Go Broke. It is not by chance that the Tolkien Society didn't stream this year's seminars, nor made them available on YouTube. You can be sure that the number of people who is awakening for real to the realities of the World is growing every day.

There had been victims and there will be victims. What is happening to Chris Avellone is both saddening and scary. He can still pull through, thought. If not, maybe the next one will. There are already signs that big entities severely burned by wokeism are pedaling back fast. One day all of this will be history.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 22, 2021, 11:34:16 AM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

(https://i.ibb.co/mJ2fjpm/image.png)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 22, 2021, 11:36:51 AM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

The claim the capital rioters are being held without being charged is all false (https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases) (like patently absurdly lyingly false, they're charged and most made bail and are out "on personal recognizance") but more importantly I am really trying to see how this is about RPGs? Seriously if someone else had posted this political rant they'd be under threat of ban right now. NOTHING of what you just wrote has anything to do with this RPG topic except int he most extreme "everything is political so nothing is political" sort of way. WTF Pundit? BLM rioters, Capital rioters, the rule of law in America, THIS is what you think the CRT lecture to the Hasbro contractor is about? Come on man. It's hard enough to figure out what is and is not OK to post in this part of the forum without you blurring the lines even more like that.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 22, 2021, 11:53:10 AM
IMHO, people who filmed themselves and took selfies while, you know, INVADING YOUR CAPITOL - not to mention those who rabidly followed a "shaman guy" cosplaying as Sven from Frozen - should be psychiatrically interned for their own good. Truth is: I feel only sadness for these feeble minded people who provided fertile support for a specific breed of hare-brained politicians - and that will take the fall for them.
I want you to stop and think about what you just said, specifically the part I bolded.

Because that's also a Soviet Union gig. Committing inconvenient people to mental hospitals for wrongthink.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 22, 2021, 12:09:46 PM
IMHO, people who filmed themselves and took selfies while, you know, INVADING YOUR CAPITOL - not to mention those who rabidly followed a "shaman guy" cosplaying as Sven from Frozen - should be psychiatrically interned for their own good. Truth is: I feel only sadness for these feeble minded people who provided fertile support for a specific breed of hare-brained politicians - and that will take the fall for them.
I want you to stop and think about what you just said, specifically the part I bolded.

Because that's also a Soviet Union gig. Committing inconvenient people to mental hospitals for wrongthink.

Knowingly committing a very serious criminal federal crime (because someone else invited you to do it, to boot) and joyously taking selfies while you do it is rightthink? Just askin'.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 22, 2021, 01:05:43 PM
IMHO, people who filmed themselves and took selfies while, you know, INVADING YOUR CAPITOL - not to mention those who rabidly followed a "shaman guy" cosplaying as Sven from Frozen - should be psychiatrically interned for their own good. Truth is: I feel only sadness for these feeble minded people who provided fertile support for a specific breed of hare-brained politicians - and that will take the fall for them.
I want you to stop and think about what you just said, specifically the part I bolded.

Because that's also a Soviet Union gig. Committing inconvenient people to mental hospitals for wrongthink.

Knowingly committing a very serious criminal federal crime (because someone else invited you to do it, to boot) and joyously taking selfies while you do it is rightthink? Just askin'.
Cool.

Now do those loons who crashed Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings. And the loony bint who demanded the Dems 'end the filibuster'.

'Cause if you don't, this isn't really about law. It's about who's in power.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: oggsmash on July 22, 2021, 01:39:59 PM
IMHO, people who filmed themselves and took selfies while, you know, INVADING YOUR CAPITOL - not to mention those who rabidly followed a "shaman guy" cosplaying as Sven from Frozen - should be psychiatrically interned for their own good. Truth is: I feel only sadness for these feeble minded people who provided fertile support for a specific breed of hare-brained politicians - and that will take the fall for them.
I want you to stop and think about what you just said, specifically the part I bolded.

Because that's also a Soviet Union gig. Committing inconvenient people to mental hospitals for wrongthink.

Knowingly committing a very serious criminal federal crime (because someone else invited you to do it, to boot) and joyously taking selfies while you do it is rightthink? Just askin'.
Cool.

Now do those loons who crashed Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings. And the loony bint who demanded the Dems 'end the filibuster'.

'Cause if you don't, this isn't really about law. It's about who's in power.

Just sayin'.

   Well, in his defense, the media did not RANT all day and all night about that, because that was... 1st amendment bro.  However, show up for the *wrong* side and it is an insurrection.  The real insurrections are coming, and I think the first ways we will see it will be right leaning people wont let their kids join the military, removal from public schools,  and there is going to be some tax "hesitancy" coming.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 01:51:28 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 22, 2021, 02:08:38 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Merrill on July 22, 2021, 03:36:07 PM
The wokeness and radical politics are practically inescapable these days when it comes to this hobby

years go I used to go to Garycon and have fun there playing old school D&D, hanging out with the old-timers from the hobby. Everything was chill, and like a private party

since that convention has gotten popular, and WOTC was invited in, it has turned into a meeting of the fucking RAF

next year's guests include:

Tom Morrello: Rage Against the Machine guitarist, ANTIFA member, committed Communist. The guy who consistently praised Castro, called for violent riots last year, denounces all cops as Klan members, demanded that statues to Jefferson and Washington in DC get ripped down, and calls the American flag a symbol of racism and genocide

BDave Walters: some gamer / activist dude who pushes CRT on his youtube channel, and basically bashes white people non-stop

Aliza Pearl: another BLM figure

Mike Mearls: don't need to comment on this guy

Jennel Jacquays: transgender activist and complete psycho

and like 6-7 more guests from the furthest reaches of the radical left

and the colors of the t-shirts next year are the colors of the transgender flag (coral, baby blue and white)

---

Other conventions aren't much better. So it isn't simply liberal or even a little lefty --it is full-on Anti-American activist socialism all over the place.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2021, 03:50:48 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Your fallacy is: Genetic Fallacy.

Thanks for playing tho.

But given the quality of your "argum,ents" you might want to limit yourself to playing less intelectually demanding games, like you're it.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 22, 2021, 04:00:10 PM
The wokeness and radical politics are practically inescapable these days when it comes to this hobby

years go I used to go to Garycon and have fun there playing old school D&D, hanging out with the old-timers from the hobby. Everything was chill, and like a private party

since that convention has gotten popular, and WOTC was invited in, it has turned into a meeting of the fucking RAF

next year's guests include:

Tom Morrello: Rage Against the Machine guitarist, ANTIFA member, committed Communist. The guy who consistently praised Castro, called for violent riots last year, denounces all cops as Klan members, demanded that statues to Jefferson and Washington in DC get ripped down, and calls the American flag a symbol of racism and genocide

BDave Walters: some gamer / activist dude who pushes CRT on his youtube channel, and basically bashes white people non-stop

Aliza Pearl: another BLM figure

Mike Mearls: don't need to comment on this guy

Jennel Jacquays: transgender activist and complete psycho

and like 6-7 more guests from the furthest reaches of the radical left

and the colors of the t-shirts next year are the colors of the transgender flag (coral, baby blue and white)

---

Other conventions aren't much better. So it isn't simply liberal or even a little lefty --it is full-on Anti-American activist socialism all over the place.
I am hoping, with everything I've got, that DragonCon hasn't fallen down the same hole. Yeah, they've got a Duhversity track, but in 2019 it seemed to be just a containment area -- I didn't see a whole lot of wokeness otherwise (or at all).
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 22, 2021, 04:29:03 PM
The wokeness and radical politics are practically inescapable these days when it comes to this hobby

years go I used to go to Garycon and have fun there playing old school D&D, hanging out with the old-timers from the hobby. Everything was chill, and like a private party

since that convention has gotten popular, and WOTC was invited in, it has turned into a meeting of the fucking RAF

next year's guests include:

Tom Morrello: Rage Against the Machine guitarist, ANTIFA member, committed Communist. The guy who consistently praised Castro, called for violent riots last year, denounces all cops as Klan members, demanded that statues to Jefferson and Washington in DC get ripped down, and calls the American flag a symbol of racism and genocide

BDave Walters: some gamer / activist dude who pushes CRT on his youtube channel, and basically bashes white people non-stop

Aliza Pearl: another BLM figure

Mike Mearls: don't need to comment on this guy

Jennel Jacquays: transgender activist and complete psycho

and like 6-7 more guests from the furthest reaches of the radical left

and the colors of the t-shirts next year are the colors of the transgender flag (coral, baby blue and white)

---

Other conventions aren't much better. So it isn't simply liberal or even a little lefty --it is full-on Anti-American activist socialism all over the place.

 ::)

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jeff37923 on July 22, 2021, 04:55:17 PM
The wokeness and radical politics are practically inescapable these days when it comes to this hobby

years go I used to go to Garycon and have fun there playing old school D&D, hanging out with the old-timers from the hobby. Everything was chill, and like a private party

since that convention has gotten popular, and WOTC was invited in, it has turned into a meeting of the fucking RAF

next year's guests include:

Tom Morrello: Rage Against the Machine guitarist, ANTIFA member, committed Communist. The guy who consistently praised Castro, called for violent riots last year, denounces all cops as Klan members, demanded that statues to Jefferson and Washington in DC get ripped down, and calls the American flag a symbol of racism and genocide

BDave Walters: some gamer / activist dude who pushes CRT on his youtube channel, and basically bashes white people non-stop

Aliza Pearl: another BLM figure

Mike Mearls: don't need to comment on this guy

Jennel Jacquays: transgender activist and complete psycho

and like 6-7 more guests from the furthest reaches of the radical left

and the colors of the t-shirts next year are the colors of the transgender flag (coral, baby blue and white)

---

Other conventions aren't much better. So it isn't simply liberal or even a little lefty --it is full-on Anti-American activist socialism all over the place.
I am hoping, with everything I've got, that DragonCon hasn't fallen down the same hole. Yeah, they've got a Duhversity track, but in 2019 it seemed to be just a containment area -- I didn't see a whole lot of wokeness otherwise (or at all).

If you are looking for a good wokeness barometer, Larry Correia still approves of DragonCon.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 22, 2021, 05:10:54 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2021, 06:09:46 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 06:58:23 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Chris24601 on July 22, 2021, 06:59:48 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.
Why would you want a clone of a system that's got so much garbage in it? Make an alternative that follows more modern design principles that's actually good.

That's what I'm doing and I am on the last dozen-ish pages of the writing finally... basically the last bits of new GM advice (because I'm not going to presume that players/GMs are coming in via the gateway of the increasingly Woke WotC) are the only parts left to do. Anyone who can do their own world-building and adventure writing could use the rules now (and have been for my many many playtests that involved several almost complete rewrites in the earlier stages of the project).

And part of the effort too is to completely break free and clear of the d20SRD and the OGL. I'll have my own free use system license, but I want it unconnected to anything WotC. Its hard to say you're building a parallel structure when you're still using a lot of the enemy's infrastructure as your foundation. I think having to go back to the original myths and legends and other sources of inspiration (ex. I'll readily admit that Thundarr the Barbarian was a huge influence on my default setting) helps a lot too in terms of making something a little more original in terms of setting.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 22, 2021, 07:16:07 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 07:29:16 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 22, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.

I'm not sure where you got the notion that the only other option was ending of employment?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 22, 2021, 08:49:34 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.

I'm not sure where you got the notion that the only other option was ending of employment?

What happens to staff that dont go to mandatory training?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 08:52:21 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.

I'm not sure where you got the notion that the only other option was ending of employment?

What happens to staff that dont go to mandatory training?

 Show me the proof it was mandatory
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 22, 2021, 08:57:00 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

"Mandatory" or not, I would reccomend a high profile company not waflle around about hosting content that may not be consistent with their views. I mean, are they letting random people off the street into the building to do a presentation?
It's Damage Control at this point.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 22, 2021, 09:06:48 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.

I'm not sure where you got the notion that the only other option was ending of employment?

What happens to staff that dont go to mandatory training?

 Show me the proof it was mandatory

Starting to think not really Batman

More to be added.


Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: palaeomerus on July 22, 2021, 09:11:51 PM
What happens to staff that dont go to mandatory training?

EYE SHOW YOO VOT HAPPENZ!

(https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/square_small/11/111746/4353056-boris_natasha.jpg)

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2021, 10:46:17 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.
Why would you want a clone of a system that's got so much garbage in it? Make an alternative that follows more modern design principles that's actually good.

That's what I'm doing and I am on the last dozen-ish pages of the writing finally... basically the last bits of new GM advice (because I'm not going to presume that players/GMs are coming in via the gateway of the increasingly Woke WotC) are the only parts left to do. Anyone who can do their own world-building and adventure writing could use the rules now (and have been for my many many playtests that involved several almost complete rewrites in the earlier stages of the project).

And part of the effort too is to completely break free and clear of the d20SRD and the OGL. I'll have my own free use system license, but I want it unconnected to anything WotC. Its hard to say you're building a parallel structure when you're still using a lot of the enemy's infrastructure as your foundation. I think having to go back to the original myths and legends and other sources of inspiration (ex. I'll readily admit that Thundarr the Barbarian was a huge influence on my default setting) helps a lot too in terms of making something a little more original in terms of setting.

I don't, but e5 does have many ppl playing it, and if someone were to make such a clone they could not include the parts that suck.

I'm way too busy doing my OSR game (s).
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2021, 10:49:29 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

1.- And we all should believe the megacorp, they would never lie to us.

2.- Said 3rd party WAS hired AND paid by Hasbro, I would deduce from this their views do align with it.

3.- Right, and if he didn't then he can't know anything, there's no way he could know anything about it, in fact he doesn't know anything so much Hasbro is in damage control just because.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 22, 2021, 11:03:48 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

1.- And we all should believe the megacorp, they would never lie to us.

2.- Said 3rd party WAS hired AND paid by Hasbro, I would deduce from this their views do align with it.

3.- Right, and if he didn't then he can't know anything, there's no way he could know anything about it, in fact he doesn't know anything so much Hasbro is in damage control just because.

Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 22, 2021, 11:05:26 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.
Why would you want a clone of a system that's got so much garbage in it? Make an alternative that follows more modern design principles that's actually good.

That's what I'm doing and I am on the last dozen-ish pages of the writing finally... basically the last bits of new GM advice (because I'm not going to presume that players/GMs are coming in via the gateway of the increasingly Woke WotC) are the only parts left to do. Anyone who can do their own world-building and adventure writing could use the rules now (and have been for my many many playtests that involved several almost complete rewrites in the earlier stages of the project).

And part of the effort too is to completely break free and clear of the d20SRD and the OGL. I'll have my own free use system license, but I want it unconnected to anything WotC. Its hard to say you're building a parallel structure when you're still using a lot of the enemy's infrastructure as your foundation. I think having to go back to the original myths and legends and other sources of inspiration (ex. I'll readily admit that Thundarr the Barbarian was a huge influence on my default setting) helps a lot too in terms of making something a little more original in terms of setting.


Because 5E is the single most popular system and edition of all time.  Why not try to take advantage of being 5E compatible, but different?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 11:39:52 PM
.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Batman on July 22, 2021, 11:42:17 PM
Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You wouldn't know a Marxist even if one shot at you. And Hasbro probably has better jello than the VA, just saying 🤷
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 22, 2021, 11:42:41 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

1.- And we all should believe the megacorp, they would never lie to us.

2.- Said 3rd party WAS hired AND paid by Hasbro, I would deduce from this their views do align with it.

3.- Right, and if he didn't then he can't know anything, there's no way he could know anything about it, in fact he doesn't know anything so much Hasbro is in damage control just because.

Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Attendance is totally optional, drinking the koolaid is totally optional, enacting the racist/sexist policies derived from the semminar? Totally optional

Because we have never been on the receiving end of one of this Totally Optional courses (not a CRT one in my case but still) in our work place and we don't know it's as optional as eating your greens was with my grandma.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 22, 2021, 11:51:28 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Not sure what smoking gun you are trying to find here and to what end.

The only thing I have to question is if the material he viewed does not reflect the views of the company, then why the heck are they making people watch it?  I highly, highly doubt that they pay for this 'training', but allow people to opt out of watching it.  Then what's the point of paying for it?  Why push any subjective agenda if it has no bearing on the company?  This isn't some dialectic debate at some academic institution, it's a place of business.

So we have a guy who actually worked for them and says it was mandatory, but now Hasbro realises the hot water they are jumping into and states it was optional viewing.  Did he know this?  Likely not, and as he stated, "...It was a meeting he was told he needed to attend at work."

Maybe he was actually interested in hearing more about the topic and became vehemently opposed to the way the material was structured and the assumptions it was making.  It really doesn't matter as it has no business being pushed in the first place unless there was some counterargument seminar to balance it, which there seems very little evidence of.

Reality check here: a black guy went against the grain, has been put on suspension (might as well stick it on the CV as everyone will know about it now), seemingly opposed his parents views and will be vilified for having a different opinion.  I can't imagine any scenario where he had some agenda to plan all this. The only silver lining in the end is a fund to help him as he has tanked his career.  There are no real positives here:  just someone who was strong enough to say no, I don't agree with this (for reasons he stated) and it is wrong to push these controversial cultural manifestos in a place of business.  Guess he thought it was worth enough to make the public aware as he's going to feel the effects of this bold move for years to come.

Hasbro's big problem is he didn't tell them he disagreed.  Oh, I'm sorry Hasbro, as you seem to be willing to show anything to employees that do not reflect your views, maybe you could have shown a Peterson video or two instead as you don't seem to care what is thrown your employees' way.  Of course that wouldn't go with the current trend would it?  So it is a cognitive decision the company is making you hypocrites.

Oh, and to keep it on topic: OSR yay, Hasbro/WOtC nay!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 22, 2021, 11:56:22 PM
Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You wouldn't know a Marxist even if one shot at you. And Hasbro probably has better jello than the VA, just saying 🤷

Greetings!

*Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 22, 2021, 11:57:41 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

1.- And we all should believe the megacorp, they would never lie to us.

2.- Said 3rd party WAS hired AND paid by Hasbro, I would deduce from this their views do align with it.

3.- Right, and if he didn't then he can't know anything, there's no way he could know anything about it, in fact he doesn't know anything so much Hasbro is in damage control just because.

Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Attendance is totally optional, drinking the koolaid is totally optional, enacting the racist/sexist policies derived from the semminar? Totally optional

Because we have never been on the receiving end of one of this Totally Optional courses (not a CRT one in my case but still) in our work place and we don't know it's as optional as eating your greens was with my grandma.

Greetings!

Exactly, Geeky!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Prairie Dragon on July 23, 2021, 04:13:35 AM
A few years back it was mandatory that I receive "Anti-Biased Community Policing" training.  I got paid for it, of course; over-time rate. I had to sit and listen to the 'trainers' who called everyone a racist in about 12 different ways.  No, I didn't learn any effective communication techniques.  I did not learn any new 'moves' to add to my 'Verbal Judo' skills.  It was a waste of everyone's time all the way until about the last minute.  The 'trainers' asked if anyone had any questions.  "Have you ever heard of the Golden Rule?" I asked.  Just as they started to try to answer the question, I cut them off; 'Please learn to not lie'.  Got up and left and everyone followed me out.  We have yet to have that kind of training again.  We just have to sign off on a policy.  Which can be basically summed up as "The Golden Rule: Treat others as you be Treated." 

When they day comes when people truly stop being nice, what will the corporate world start trying to 'teach' then? 
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Zelen on July 23, 2021, 07:48:21 AM
If "corporations" generally were promoting all perspectives it'd be one thing. But corporations are not generically simply supporting the option for their employees to get educated on a range of subjects. The racist "anti-racism" training is part of an industry of anti-White hatred that's become commonplace to promote in corporate America. Hasbro paid hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to gets employees to engage in a ritual of humiliation and indoctrination.

Does Hasbro itself believe in CRT? For a lot of corporations, engaging in this kind of neo-religious propagandizing is driven by deep capital like BlackRock & Vanguard who control vast amounts of the global economy & rate corporate investments they make according to how well those corporations push the globalist religion.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: KingCheops on July 23, 2021, 11:33:47 AM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

1.- And we all should believe the megacorp, they would never lie to us.

2.- Said 3rd party WAS hired AND paid by Hasbro, I would deduce from this their views do align with it.

3.- Right, and if he didn't then he can't know anything, there's no way he could know anything about it, in fact he doesn't know anything so much Hasbro is in damage control just because.

Greetings!

Don't you just love how the Marxist shills jump to do a bunch of tap-dancing to run cover for the cock-sucking, Liberal corporations and their hateful policies? Hasbro would never expect their employees to suck down Marxist jello! It isn't *mandatory* you bigot! ;D

Just imagine you being a Hasbro employee, and telling your boss that you will pass on the Marxist brainwashing seminar? Imagine how well that will go over with your liberal, cock-sucking, Marxist bosses? I imagine they would quickly collate a list of all employees that did not want to attend the Marxist seminar--yes, now you know who is going to be "Downsized". ;D

It's all optional, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Attendance is totally optional, drinking the koolaid is totally optional, enacting the racist/sexist policies derived from the semminar? Totally optional

Because we have never been on the receiving end of one of this Totally Optional courses (not a CRT one in my case but still) in our work place and we don't know it's as optional as eating your greens was with my grandma.

My workplace had an "optional" seminar on coping with working from home during the epidemic.  I decided I didn't want to bother but like 2 minutes in my Teams started blowing up with coworkers saying I have to log on because HR was waiting for me and not starting until I was there.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 23, 2021, 12:24:35 PM
A few years back it was mandatory that I receive "Anti-Biased Community Policing" training.  I got paid for it, of course; over-time rate. I had to sit and listen to the 'trainers' who called everyone a racist in about 12 different ways.  No, I didn't learn any effective communication techniques.  I did not learn any new 'moves' to add to my 'Verbal Judo' skills.  It was a waste of everyone's time all the way until about the last minute.  The 'trainers' asked if anyone had any questions.  "Have you ever heard of the Golden Rule?" I asked.  Just as they started to try to answer the question, I cut them off; 'Please learn to not lie'.  Got up and left and everyone followed me out.  We have yet to have that kind of training again.  We just have to sign off on a policy.  Which can be basically summed up as "The Golden Rule: Treat others as you be Treated." 

Nice!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 23, 2021, 01:15:49 PM
Shouldn't this go to the Pundit's forum? As far as I can see, there is zero RPG relevance here.

Hasbro may own WotC, but we're not even talking about WotC here - and a lot of the discussion is even broader than Hasbro.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: tenbones on July 23, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Stop buying WotC. They and their parent company are pushing CRT on children and stupid adults.

Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell yourself.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 23, 2021, 02:37:20 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.

Here is the Newsweek article (https://www.newsweek.com/hasbro-insider-says-crt-being-taught-kids-through-products-1611105). It was mandated, at least for this person, according to this person. And as it was "small groups" I strongly suspect it was his manager who mandated it for their group. Of course the content is from a third party - Conscious Kid, which is a known crappy group. The whistleblower did in fact attend the webinar. They even show some of it. That's why he was suspended - he recorded it and showed people outside the company which they claim violates their NDA.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 23, 2021, 02:38:39 PM
According to your "sources" everything the person who was actually there and reported did not happen?

Holy Batman, Batman!

Whistleblower (http://"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html")

The training was led by Conscious Kid co-founder Kate Ishizuka-Stephens. Johnson says it was mandatory, but Hasbro maintains it was an 'optional diversity and inclusion webinar attended by a small group of employees.'

Hasbro: "We occasionally invite third-party speakers for optional sessions to discuss diverse viewpoints. As always, the views expressed by external speakers are their own and do not reflect the views of the company.'

"Johnson did not share any concerns with his employer [Hasbro] before going to the Project Veritas, and that it had no part in The Conscious Kid's lectures."

Of course it was optional in that you could quit if you dont want to go.

That makes it optional.

I'm not sure where you got the notion that the only other option was ending of employment?

What happens to staff that dont go to mandatory training?

 Show me the proof it was mandatory

Starting to think not really Batman


I laughed!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 23, 2021, 02:41:15 PM
Shouldn't this go to the Pundit's forum? As far as I can see, there is zero RPG relevance here.

Hasbro may own WotC, but we're not even talking about WotC here - and a lot of the discussion is even broader than Hasbro.

I made that complaint, to Pundit. No response. Because...it was his comments making it not about RPGs. In fact his comments were not even about Hasbro. It was just generic "The left is evil" stuff.

At this point I really don't know what is supposed to go where. When Pundits own rants in this RPG forum clearly violate the rule he stickied to the top of the forum, which causes dozens of others to make similar rants which have nothing to do with RPGs, and he wont' even speak to it, how are any of us supposed to know what the rule is supposed to be?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: sevenlabors on July 23, 2021, 03:36:15 PM
Shouldn't this go to the Pundit's forum? As far as I can see, there is zero RPG relevance here.

Hasbro may own WotC, but we're not even talking about WotC here - and a lot of the discussion is even broader than Hasbro.

I made that complaint, to Pundit. No response. Because...it was his comments making it not about RPGs. In fact his comments were not even about Hasbro. It was just generic "The left is evil" stuff.

At this point I really don't know what is supposed to go where. When Pundits own rants in this RPG forum clearly violate the rule he stickied to the top of the forum, which causes dozens of others to make similar rants which have nothing to do with RPGs, and he wont' even speak to it, how are any of us supposed to know what the rule is supposed to be?

Speaking as a relatively new guy who's not been around RPG forums for a decade, that sure seems to be the interesting dynamic here. I appreciate the contrast this forum presents to the other one, but goodness, it seems to be as much about counter-RPG.net sociopolitics as much as it is the games themselves. Regardless of how much I tend to agree with the points made, it makes it hard to wade through and find the good gaming content.

But honestly? Far be it for me as that new guy to come in pissing and moaning or trying to change how the community here has shaken out. If people like the vibe, cool. It's just surprised me, if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 23, 2021, 03:50:42 PM
Shouldn't this go to the Pundit's forum? As far as I can see, there is zero RPG relevance here.

Hasbro may own WotC, but we're not even talking about WotC here - and a lot of the discussion is even broader than Hasbro.

I made that complaint, to Pundit. No response. Because...it was his comments making it not about RPGs. In fact his comments were not even about Hasbro. It was just generic "The left is evil" stuff.

At this point I really don't know what is supposed to go where. When Pundits own rants in this RPG forum clearly violate the rule he stickied to the top of the forum, which causes dozens of others to make similar rants which have nothing to do with RPGs, and he wont' even speak to it, how are any of us supposed to know what the rule is supposed to be?

Speaking as a relatively new guy who's not been around RPG forums for a decade, that sure seems to be the interesting dynamic here. I appreciate the contrast this forum presents to the other one, but goodness, it seems to be as much about counter-RPG.net sociopolitics as much as it is the games themselves. Regardless of how much I tend to agree with the points made, it makes it hard to wade through and find the good gaming content.

But honestly? Far be it for me as that new guy to come in pissing and moaning or trying to change how the community here has shaken out. If people like the vibe, cool. It's just surprised me, if I'm honest.

That's a fair assessment.  Probably just avoid any forum topic with exclamation marks in the title and you'll be fine. heh

The one key difference I see here that I don't see elsewhere is pretty much anything related to RPG's is debatable (and more on the specific Pundit's own forum).  Granted, you're going to get some pushback if you're view is contrarian to the general vibe of the forum, but things are debatable at least, not completely wiped and negated.  I could be wrong but I haven't seen it happen.

It is a charged topic to be sure, but an important one as Hasbro mandates the temperament of its subdivisions like WOtC.  As I have yet to find any other RPG forum discussing this, I can understand why it may get a little heated as one could see it as ground zero for the RPG related side of things.

I'll be happy with a clear statement by WOtC's parent company about the issue, as it no doubt affects the type of environment that creates the RPG material that makes its way to market.  So far, the waffling they are presently doing, while expected, is less than impressive, no matter how one feels about the topic.  Like it or not, WOtC's actions and direction have a huge influence on the hobby, good or bad.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 23, 2021, 04:05:45 PM
At this point I really don't know what is supposed to go where.
Same here.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 23, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
There are a ton of politics lite or free threads. Every thread with politics tends to have it right in the title.

Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!

Anyone shocked we're talking about the culture war in a thread about woke "training" at Hasbro, owners of WOTC?

I'll even do your work for you. Here's some threads-

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/simultaneous-initiative/

Got an opinion about simultaneous initiative? Go for it!

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/so-i-finally-ran-dnd-on-roll-20-last-night/

danskmacabre just ran his first session on roll20. What a thread! Check it out, man!

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/fantasy-rpg-combat-preferences/

Participate in the combat preferences poll! Surely you have an opinion to share!

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 23, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
There are a ton of politics lite or free threads. Every thread with politics tends to have it right in the title.

Sure, but then what do you do with stuff like this:

Because I'm fucking sick of people constantly breaking the rules on off-topic posting, I'm making a new policy, effective immediately.

As always, the main forum allows threads on the subject of the RPG hobby, INCLUDING political entryism or other political issues WITHIN the hobby.


From now on, anyone who - TO MY OWN JUDGMENT - takes advantage of this to start posting off the topic of the RPG hobby and into their wider political opinions on the subject, will earn a PERMANENT ban from this forum.

and how do you reconcile that with stuff like this?

And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Can I post about the capital riot here? Can I only do that if I find an excuse in an RPG topic (or not even an RPG topic, a Hasbro topic, so already once removed) to bring that up? WTF is the guideline here?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 23, 2021, 06:23:49 PM
There are a ton of politics lite or free threads. Every thread with politics tends to have it right in the title.

Sure, but then what do you do with stuff like this:

Because I'm fucking sick of people constantly breaking the rules on off-topic posting, I'm making a new policy, effective immediately.

As always, the main forum allows threads on the subject of the RPG hobby, INCLUDING political entryism or other political issues WITHIN the hobby.


From now on, anyone who - TO MY OWN JUDGMENT - takes advantage of this to start posting off the topic of the RPG hobby and into their wider political opinions on the subject, will earn a PERMANENT ban from this forum.

and how do you reconcile that with stuff like this?

And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Can I post about the capital riot here? Can I only do that if I find an excuse in an RPG topic (or not even an RPG topic, a Hasbro topic, so already once removed) to bring that up? WTF is the guideline here?

Dunno, man. I haven't been thrilled with Pundit's politics rule because it has been really soft and squishy. It doesn't help that most culture war topics involve RPGs and politics with pretty predictable thread drift.

Really, I just play it by ear.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:07:44 PM
RPGPundit, are the communists in Uruguay and the rest of Centra/South America feeling empowered by America's quickening collapse?

That's a complex question, and the only answer I'll give here is that it varies, because there's a stronger new right raising up in South America around figures like Bolsonaro and Lacalle Pou (my president, maybe the best Head of State in the entire world right now), but it's certainly emboldened the axis of Cuba-Venezuela-Argentina who are looking to expand communist dominance into Chile and the whole Andean region.

But please don't comment further on this in this thread, as it is off-topic. You want to talk about it? start a thread on the Pundit's forum.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:09:24 PM
In the US, there are more Democrats than there are Americans.
Democrats are told to stay home and not work and that they don't have to pay their rent/mortgage because it's year-round COVID now.
Banks that own all these properties won't survive this.

It's not the banks that are the targets, they'll get bailed out. It's the small landlords. Just like the small businessmen.

The entire goal is to wipe out all of the Independent Middle Class, so that the only middle class that remains will be public employees or employees of big companies. Which will then be politically beholden, knowing that speaking out will mean the loss of everything.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 23, 2021, 07:10:45 PM
There are a ton of politics lite or free threads. Every thread with politics tends to have it right in the title.

Sure, but then what do you do with stuff like this:

Because I'm fucking sick of people constantly breaking the rules on off-topic posting, I'm making a new policy, effective immediately.

As always, the main forum allows threads on the subject of the RPG hobby, INCLUDING political entryism or other political issues WITHIN the hobby.


From now on, anyone who - TO MY OWN JUDGMENT - takes advantage of this to start posting off the topic of the RPG hobby and into their wider political opinions on the subject, will earn a PERMANENT ban from this forum.

and how do you reconcile that with stuff like this?

And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Can I post about the capital riot here? Can I only do that if I find an excuse in an RPG topic (or not even an RPG topic, a Hasbro topic, so already once removed) to bring that up? WTF is the guideline here?


The rules are more open in the Pundit's forum.  You can get a little political over there.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:14:30 PM
One solution that might work, but which I haven't seen proposed anywhere, is to put cameras in all classrooms, and give parents access so they can watch, in real time and via playback, what exactly the teachers are telling their children. That would completely defang the attempts to teach toxic stuff behind the parents' backs.

I literally proposed this on Twitter weeks ago. And so have others.

Quote
Not sure what to do with Hasbro, though Hasbro is more a downstream problem. It's where the problems created in academia and the primary school system manifest. I think it's mostly useful as an object lesson in what's being taught, and how it's seeping into other institutions, and thus can be used to bring more attention to the problems upstream.

They're engaging in total war in all areas. We must engage in total war in all areas. That absolutely means destroying the entire education system and rebuilding it free of poison while firing most current teachers, and probably ending colleges and universities as we know them.
But it also includes not letting Stalinists use comic books, tv shows, movies and games to indoctrinate people into racial hatred.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on July 23, 2021, 07:16:16 PM
Has it all really come to this? Did they really claim white toddlers are racist?

It was nice knowing you years ago, Hasbro. Now you are "Hasbroken."

The first thing one can do is simply not buy anything directly or indirectly connected to them. And this includes any Wizards of the Coast products.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:17:17 PM

There is zero percent chance of them letting themselves be accountable like putting cameras in classrooms.



Cops didn't want that either. But they didn't get a choice. Take over local governments and schoolboards and go to fucking war with the teachers.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:20:12 PM


Ahh… But as the former USSR and Eastern Block has shown – you can collapse your way out of it!

It just depends on which side is more culturally resilient.

Mormons and Baptists will end up inheriting the ruins of Post-Communist America.

Ironically, the feminists will finally get something closer to their Handmaid's Tale cosplay.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:23:31 PM
The only effective response is to make parallel institutions and vote with your feet/dollars. Exactly as this place and associated content creators have shown. The woke have won, but that doesn't mean there can't be a strong, hard-core of counterculture. The Amish don't despair that the secular and modern world has "won". They live and thrive in their corner, and teach their values to their children. They have been extraordinarily successful, by the way, in an evolutionary sense.

Not in places where they were murdered.

The problem with saying "i don't care, i'll just ride it out here in my little town with my friends playing old d&d" is that if you let these people take the power to commit violence, they'll come to your little town with badges, and their version of the stasi will drag you and your friends out of your basement and have you shot for playing the wrong kind of D&D.

Ask Cubans.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 23, 2021, 07:24:05 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
The key battle is happening now and is being waged EVERYWHERE at the same time. The hordes of fucking barbarians that are the SJWs have come from inside the Polis itself and are now going house-to-house trying to burn it ALL to the fucking ground and leave nothing but salted earth in its wake. It's a battle in a defining war for the future of civilization itself, and if the SJWs win we will all be plunged back into a new dark age of savagery.

Every single measure to stop this needs to be on the table, because the death tolls if they win will give the Black Death a run for its money.
It won't be won by waging a bloody thread by thread war on the RPGSite.

It will only be won by waging a post by post war against SJW entryism LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

This is a civil war, and I get that it feels inconvenient for some of you that my fighting back against people who want to destroy the hobby you love, and LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you love (your country, your economic freedom, your job, your education, your art, your religion and your children), is getting in the way of you feeling relaxed while painting your elf miniatures, but for those of us who care about the future of human civilization it's a little more important to us to be trying to stop your fat asses from ending up in the death camp or the killing fields, and to stop your children from being ideologically and/or literally taken by these psychopaths and brainwashed into being terrorists for the destruction of the human species.

And if you're really tired by all this and just want it to stop, then I'm not the one you need to be dealing with. If YOU stood up to these Communist Totalitarian psychopaths like I do, they'd be finished in a day. On the other hand, if you got me to stop, you would end up in a gulag, dumbass.

(https://i.ibb.co/mJ2fjpm/image.png)

Funny, because I don't have conspiracy theories, and I've never seen you question a damn thing.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 23, 2021, 07:35:09 PM
Funny, because I don't have conspiracy theories, and I've never seen you question a damn thing.

You know that Mistwell questions the anti-WotC narrative.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:39:47 PM
And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

The claim the capital rioters are being held without being charged is all false (https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases) (like patently absurdly lyingly false, they're charged and most made bail and are out "on personal recognizance") but more importantly I am really trying to see how this is about RPGs?

Because some people have been charged, doesn't doesn't mean other people have not.  Meanwhile BLM rioters and terrorists are not held, not charged and don't need bail (many Capitol protesters who are charged are also being held without bail for no violent crime), because the Leftists in control of the legal system view them as their mercenaries.

But you're right. I should probably ban Reckall and yourself for posting about it. But instead I'll just tell both of you not to post any off-topic politics in this thread again.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:42:34 PM
The wokeness and radical politics are practically inescapable these days when it comes to this hobby

years go I used to go to Garycon and have fun there playing old school D&D, hanging out with the old-timers from the hobby. Everything was chill, and like a private party

since that convention has gotten popular, and WOTC was invited in, it has turned into a meeting of the fucking RAF

next year's guests include:

Tom Morrello: Rage Against the Machine guitarist, ANTIFA member, committed Communist. The guy who consistently praised Castro, called for violent riots last year, denounces all cops as Klan members, demanded that statues to Jefferson and Washington in DC get ripped down, and calls the American flag a symbol of racism and genocide

BDave Walters: some gamer / activist dude who pushes CRT on his youtube channel, and basically bashes white people non-stop

Aliza Pearl: another BLM figure

Mike Mearls: don't need to comment on this guy

Jennel Jacquays: transgender activist and complete psycho

and like 6-7 more guests from the furthest reaches of the radical left

and the colors of the t-shirts next year are the colors of the transgender flag (coral, baby blue and white)

---

Other conventions aren't much better. So it isn't simply liberal or even a little lefty --it is full-on Anti-American activist socialism all over the place.

Do you have a link to the guest list? Just to confirm.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:46:37 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, it's obviously got be Lion & Dragon.

Make L&D the next pathfinder!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 07:48:46 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.


It's premature. Because right now, the "non-woke clone of 5e" is.. the 5e PHB. It's not woke. Neither are the DMG or the Monster Manual.

Which is how you know that once Jeremy Crawford, or whichever of his comrades stabs him in the back for it, finally assumes absolute power over D&D, they'll be making a Woke 6th Edition (continuing to prove that the even-numbered editions of D&D are cursed).

That will be the point to do a 5e clone that is non-woke.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 08:00:33 PM
Bwhahahaha..... project veritas

I didn't even need to go any further.

Being covered by mainstream press like Newsweek also though.

I looked for Newsweeks article but didn't see it. I did find one from the Daily Mail that said that
1. This training webinar wasn't mandated, but voluntary, and only for small groups.

2. The content was derived from a 3rd Party, which may have views that are not consistent with WotC views.

3. The whistleblower didn't even attend such webinar about the content therin.


Here's the Daily Mail article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805663/Hasbro-whistleblower-claims-firms-CRT-training-teaches-babies-racist-3-months-old.html)

read it carefully. Yes, the Race Grifters are a third party, contracted by Hasbro! This is what big companies do, hire specialists meant to indoctrinate. The disclaimer that "they might not represent Hasbro's Values" is ridiculous when Hasbro is getting its employees to go listen to these people TELL THE EMPLOYEES to put this indoctrination INTO Hasbro's products.
I mean if you looked at a list of Hasbro's speakers, do you think you'd find Jordan Peterson on it? No. You'll find one after another of postmodernist SJW psychopaths.

"Optional": Note that has Hasbro's lawyers say they "occasionally invite third party speakers for optional sessions" but does not say that this Webinar in particular was optional. If it was, they would have said so. The fact that they didn't pretty much guarantees it was. As does EVERY other bit of information we have, including Johnson's own testimony, the recording of the webinar, and Johnson's taped conversation with his supervisor.



Also, WHERE does the article claim Johnson didn't attend? He obviously did, HE WAS THE ONE WHO FUCKING RECORDED IT.

Finally, I note you have no comment on the appalling and toxic content of the racist SJWs from this "Conscious Kids" indoctrination group, do you? They've gone underground now, trying to hide what your side doesn't want the public to see: that you're after their kids.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 08:06:53 PM


Speaking as a relatively new guy who's not been around RPG forums for a decade, that sure seems to be the interesting dynamic here. I appreciate the contrast this forum presents to the other one, but goodness, it seems to be as much about counter-RPG.net sociopolitics as much as it is the games themselves. Regardless of how much I tend to agree with the points made, it makes it hard to wade through and find the good gaming content.


I'll give you one quick tip: if the TITLE of the thread includes the terms "CRT" and "Wokism"... it's probably going to be a bit political.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
There are a ton of politics lite or free threads. Every thread with politics tends to have it right in the title.

Sure, but then what do you do with stuff like this:

Because I'm fucking sick of people constantly breaking the rules on off-topic posting, I'm making a new policy, effective immediately.

As always, the main forum allows threads on the subject of the RPG hobby, INCLUDING political entryism or other political issues WITHIN the hobby.


From now on, anyone who - TO MY OWN JUDGMENT - takes advantage of this to start posting off the topic of the RPG hobby and into their wider political opinions on the subject, will earn a PERMANENT ban from this forum.

and how do you reconcile that with stuff like this?

And about an hour after I sent the video of the whistleblower to Breitbart, they have an article up about it.  Hope that helps get the word out a little bit more.

Honestly, I don't consider Breitbart and the like so much different from woke outlets. Like Stanley Kubrick said of the political parties in "A Clockwork Orange", superficially they are opposite, factually they are the same thing.

"A man who engaged in non-violent protest at the Capitol was given eight months prison, while hundreds of BLM cases have been dropped." Just write "A man who engaged in non-violent protest during a BLM event was given eight months prison, while hundreds of Capitol protest cases have been dropped." and you will have a woke screamsheet. But that's the "new America" for us who are watching from the sidelines.


Except this is literally a lie. Capitol protest cases have NOT BEEN TRIED. People have been held, without even having charges against them, as GUANTANAMO-STYLE POLITICAL PRISONERS, for seven months now.

Name ONE BLM rioters who has had the same happen? Instead, Leftist DAs, mayors and governors all over the country  have dropped charges and Kamal Harris personally paid the bail of BLM rioters who engaged in burning down entire city blocks, looting businesses and stabbing people.

There is a clear collapse of equal treatment in Rule of Law in America. Once that happens, it's almost impossible that things will get fixed without conflict.

Can I post about the capital riot here? Can I only do that if I find an excuse in an RPG topic (or not even an RPG topic, a Hasbro topic, so already once removed) to bring that up? WTF is the guideline here?

You can't. Not here. You can on the Pundit's forum.

I can post ANYTHING I WANT ANYWHERE on here, because I own this forum.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 23, 2021, 08:12:24 PM
Funny, because I don't have conspiracy theories, and I've never seen you question a damn thing.

You know that Mistwell questions the anti-WotC narrative.

No, he COMPLAINS about it. He posts memes about it. He insults about it.

I haven't seen much actual "questioning".
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 23, 2021, 09:27:16 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 23, 2021, 09:57:13 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Grow up.  It's the same rules as RPG.net, Twitter, Facebook, and any other public forum.  Any borderline posts that support the prevailing narrative get excused, and any that oppose it get pulled.  Go whine on RPG.net about their inconsistent policies, then I'll take your whining here seriously...
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 23, 2021, 10:02:54 PM
Why dont we just use the Twitter/Facebook equivalent rules on what can be posted?






Too soon?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 23, 2021, 11:34:19 PM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.


It's premature. Because right now, the "non-woke clone of 5e" is.. the 5e PHB. It's not woke. Neither are the DMG or the Monster Manual.

Which is how you know that once Jeremy Crawford, or whichever of his comrades stabs him in the back for it, finally assumes absolute power over D&D, they'll be making a Woke 6th Edition (continuing to prove that the even-numbered editions of D&D are cursed).

That will be the point to do a 5e clone that is non-woke.

That event can't be too far in the future, and cloning 5e isn't something you do in a few months, unless you have a team doing it. If it's a single developer that person better start right now.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 23, 2021, 11:45:49 PM
Stop buying WotC. They and their parent company are pushing CRT on children and stupid adults.

Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell yourself.

Not only that, stop playing their shit, find different games by people who don't push this racist BS AND buy their stuff, promote their stuff, play their stuff.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 24, 2021, 01:41:14 AM
... But it's his forum...

Finally caught on have you?

This is Pundits clubhouse, if you don’t like it you know where the door is.

Honestly, you’re whining like a entitled brat.

“But, but, what about meeeeeeee!” “I don’t understand!!!”

Please.

And as for “allowing an opposing narrative....”

Pundit has allowed people who disagree with him to say things here that would get them instantly permabanned if they said the same against the ‘prevailing narrative’ on any other RPG forum.

Up to and including outright profanity directed at Pundit himself.

Yet they are still not banned, and continue to post here.

Dude has inch thick Cape buffalo skin.

If you want to be taken more seriously you need to bring better arguments to the table.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 24, 2021, 02:54:18 AM
[I still remember someone telling me that if WotC started loosing money the bean counters at Hasbro would do something... No we know Hasbro has also been converted so D&D is lost, dead, long live the OSR!
My only argument against this position is that if you limit yourself to the OSR, you're dead in the water. The masses have spoken and the OSR is a tiny minority in terms of play preference, but the majority isn't the Woke mobs either.

The Woke are a minority, which means they need to keep their enemies divided into factions smaller than they are so they can attack those smaller groups one a time.

We need to embrace EVERY type of play that doesn't cave to Marxist wankery; Old School, New School, Home School, Organized Play School. If its opposed to the Woke its part of the team.

The OSR is a great incubation chamber of ideas.

But ultimately if a future woke D&D is to be brought low, a viable alternative needs to come forth.

At some point we are going to have to pick a horse to back.

Well, then someone needs to make a non-woke clone of 5e.


It's premature. Because right now, the "non-woke clone of 5e" is.. the 5e PHB. It's not woke. Neither are the DMG or the Monster Manual.

Which is how you know that once Jeremy Crawford, or whichever of his comrades stabs him in the back for it, finally assumes absolute power over D&D, they'll be making a Woke 6th Edition (continuing to prove that the even-numbered editions of D&D are cursed).

That will be the point to do a 5e clone that is non-woke.


I guess you're right.  5E started out as a cool game.  It stayed that way for a little while.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Omega on July 24, 2021, 06:21:54 AM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Omega on July 24, 2021, 06:55:56 AM
Stop buying WotC. They and their parent company are pushing CRT on children and stupid adults.

Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell yourself.

Not only that, stop playing their shit, find different games by people who don't push this racist BS AND buy their stuff, promote their stuff, play their stuff.

Problem is, marketing keeps telling companies that your leaving is a good thing. "Fans are bad!" "We neeeeeed to attract the "modern" player!" (and then discard them to for the more modern player!)

Get rid of older players, replace with younger players.
Get rid of male players, replace with female players.
Get rid of fans of one edition and replace with fans of the next.

Failure is the only option.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 24, 2021, 08:20:03 AM
But you're right. I should probably ban Reckall and yourself for posting about it. But instead I'll just tell both of you not to post any off-topic politics in this thread again.

The problem, as I see it, is that it is almost impossible to separate Wokeism both from his general impact on popular culture as a whole and the political discourse as a whole.

Before banning me, please read what follows  :)

Regarding popular culture, to me there is no difference between movies, comic and RPGs when it comes to "going woke". The recent Tolkien Society Summer Seminars and DC Comics' "I'm not Starfire" episodes don't live on separate planets. The impact of political/philosophical/religious movements on pop culture is always, if widespread enough, integrated. This means that The Tolkien Society, Terminator: Woke Fate, Star Wars and even this year's Oscars fiascoes are all lessons learned that can be useful for the RPGs sector too (with a recurring element: people don't buy woke, full stop).

Regarding the latter, there, I already used the word "political" in the last paragraph. But can you really avoid to not be political about a problem whose source has firm roots in politics (even if not only there)? While wokeism was already trending back in 2015, after the election of a certain President pop culture seemed to feel that it was their task to push back against his "values" and Wokeism all of sudden found an immense fertile ground and exploded. This belief of mine is a political statement (IMHO a simple observation, but let's admit how not everyone will agree).

A couple of months ago an article made the rounds, here, about the rejection of Wokeism by Christian thought. But the writer pointed out how it is rejected by atheists, too. Other articles, out there, show how the left itself rejects Wokeism - because it damages their values by bringing them to the screeching, unassailable extreme and thus causing an unwelcome pushback towards the left as a whole. "Even the left is your friend" should be considered a tool in the struggle against wokeism - not something to be discarded lightly.

And I personally think that all this obsession about "Marxism" only attacks part of the problem and fails to grasp that Wokeism is the symptom of a more deeply rooted malaise in today's Western society; a malaise that, by now, is colorless, and wildly grasps from Marxist to Christian thought - and everything in between - as long as they "validate" their thoughts.

And I also think that people in positions of power, these ranging from political parties, to Hollywood Studios, to journalists, are actively trying to ride and amplify this wave - either giving the impression or genuinely believing that it is THE wave (as we saw, truth is that it isn't). I wrote this before and in this very thread: WotC wants to go woke? They will go broke. Bean counters will save the day.

So, what the solution can be regarding the debate here? My only proposal is to create a separate sub-forum, or use an already existing one, where we can freely talk about "AOC is coming for your CoC books!" leaving this one for the unadulterated discussion of RPGs. If Ravenloft goes woke we can pin it with a link to the appropriate thread.

Whatever the solution will be, I think we need one. As I said, I can't see how you can't speak about woke-[thing] without, soon or later, mentioning the political discourse on the matter.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Chris24601 on July 24, 2021, 08:26:48 AM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
The difference is that, this time, in the teacher unions’ laziness in not going back to face-to-face learning and the government keeping people out of work, they’ve spewed their toxic garbage fed to the children over Zoom within earshot of parents and, most importantly, fathers who aren’t interested in comity and conflict avoidance as so many mothers are... and have now heard firsthand the sick CRT propaganda calling them and their children evil and deserving of death by dint of skin color.

The second reason it’s different this time is that CRT isn’t something hard to understand; it’s pure race-based hate propaganda and almost no one beyond the utterly deranged wants their own children indoctrinated to hate.

That is definitely going to bite WotC in ass as people realize the agenda being baked into D&D going forward* because things like “white toddlers are racist” coming from leaked training seminars of the parent company is the same sort of easy-to-grok hatred that’s seeing Netflix and it’s endless parade of “we hate white people, particularly men” new content bleed subs, Black Widow dropping 80% in its second week, the networks wanting to end Neilson Ratings because their woke content keeps losing, etc.

People are already walking away from the CRT madness and WotC/Hasbro is just one more thing and RPGs are one the easiest things to find alternatives for to the Wokist garbage (ex. some people I game with just dusted off their old Spycraft 1e books from the early 2000’s for a campaign).

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 24, 2021, 08:39:53 AM
"Opposing narratives" are absolutely allowed. For RPG topics, in the RPG forum. For non-RPG topics, in the Pundit's forum.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 24, 2021, 09:12:17 AM
But you're right. I should probably ban Reckall and yourself for posting about it. But instead I'll just tell both of you not to post any off-topic politics in this thread again.

The problem, as I see it, is that it is almost impossible to separate Wokeism both from his general impact on popular culture as a whole and the political discourse as a whole.

The pattern usually goes like this.

X "woke" thing happens in RPGs.
People here discuss X woke thing.
Someone pushes back, making Y argument.
In order to discuss Y argument, we have to go into the wider politics and/or origins of the woke movement.
The thread drifts from the original topic until Pundit finally sees it and starts telling everyone to stop talking politics in the gaming forum.
Rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: palaeomerus on July 24, 2021, 10:12:26 AM

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

They encouraged us to go stag if we had no dates. This is some kind of a cargo cult version of a prom with no theme (maybe the masks are a theme?) and two of the all-gay couples* are "idiot slow dancing/swaying" to a ballad while the one on the right is...doing the Charleston? So punk rock of them. And they don't have the authentic mob of wall flowers and "I hate the music" types  ice-berg-ing the punch bowl and chicken wing buffet way in the back. 

" Hey kids! Why not get some GREASE on your rentals!"


* (no cisheteronormativity thing here in fake prom, because this is a safe space from all the  baseball bats and mental institutions with electric conversion therapy or something that i totally read about...only special cases are invited! Take that evil pissbaby shitlordz!)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 24, 2021, 12:53:17 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Grow up.  It's the same rules as RPG.net, Twitter, Facebook, and any other public forum.  Any borderline posts that support the prevailing narrative get excused, and any that oppose it get pulled.  Go whine on RPG.net about their inconsistent policies, then I'll take your whining here seriously...

I don't use RPG.net.

I come here expressly BECAUSE I enjoy the freedom granted by the moderation policies here.

And I am not even asking for some bright line - just ANY guideline really which is more than "whatever is in Pundit's head at that moment."

As for this topic, I actually AGREE with Pundit this is a real issue and I really have serious issues with Conscious Kid and have voiced those issues long before this topic came up. I just want to know how much I can say of those issues which isn't directly about RPGs.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 24, 2021, 01:53:52 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Grow up.  It's the same rules as RPG.net, Twitter, Facebook, and any other public forum.  Any borderline posts that support the prevailing narrative get excused, and any that oppose it get pulled.  Go whine on RPG.net about their inconsistent policies, then I'll take your whining here seriously...

I don't use RPG.net.

I come here expressly BECAUSE I enjoy the freedom granted by the moderation policies here.

And I am not even asking for some bright line - just ANY guideline really which is more than "whatever is in Pundit's head at that moment."

That's literally the rule. He could ban everyone whose username starts with "J" and make the site about knitting tomorrow.

If you want a guideline, the one I use is to try to keep it on topic to RPGs in the RPG section. The further political, the more chance Pundit gets fed up.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jeff37923 on July 24, 2021, 02:40:42 PM
And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?

Be a giant sandy flapping vagina about it? Like you are?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 24, 2021, 03:01:01 PM
That prom picture posted is...interesting.  Curious how the vaguely hetero (at least I think so) couple are the only ones not actually making any physical contact, evidently 'dancing to a different beat', with no real direct eye-contact with each other.  They look happy, but will never have the deep connection shared by the others.

Best example of 'hover-hand' I've seen in a while.  Thank goodness all that is just me reading too much into an innocent pictorial and not the artist's intention.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 24, 2021, 04:18:19 PM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
The difference is that, this time, in the teacher unions’ laziness in not going back to face-to-face learning and the government keeping people out of work, they’ve spewed their toxic garbage fed to the children over Zoom within earshot of parents and, most importantly, fathers who aren’t interested in comity and conflict avoidance as so many mothers are... and have now heard firsthand the sick CRT propaganda calling them and their children evil and deserving of death by dint of skin color.

The second reason it’s different this time is that CRT isn’t something hard to understand; it’s pure race-based hate propaganda and almost no one beyond the utterly deranged wants their own children indoctrinated to hate.

That is definitely going to bite WotC in ass as people realize the agenda being baked into D&D going forward* because things like “white toddlers are racist” coming from leaked training seminars of the parent company is the same sort of easy-to-grok hatred that’s seeing Netflix and it’s endless parade of “we hate white people, particularly men” new content bleed subs, Black Widow dropping 80% in its second week, the networks wanting to end Neilson Ratings because their woke content keeps losing, etc.

People are already walking away from the CRT madness and WotC/Hasbro is just one more thing and RPGs are one the easiest things to find alternatives for to the Wokist garbage (ex. some people I game with just dusted off their old Spycraft 1e books from the early 2000’s for a campaign).

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

What their prom would really look like:

(https://dailyheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/evergreen-bats-twitter-640x480-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 24, 2021, 04:21:25 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Grow up.  It's the same rules as RPG.net, Twitter, Facebook, and any other public forum.  Any borderline posts that support the prevailing narrative get excused, and any that oppose it get pulled.  Go whine on RPG.net about their inconsistent policies, then I'll take your whining here seriously...

I don't use RPG.net.

I come here expressly BECAUSE I enjoy the freedom granted by the moderation policies here.

And I am not even asking for some bright line - just ANY guideline really which is more than "whatever is in Pundit's head at that moment."

That's literally the rule. He could ban everyone whose username starts with "J" and make the site about knitting tomorrow.

If you want a guideline, the one I use is to try to keep it on topic to RPGs in the RPG section. The further political, the more chance Pundit gets fed up.

That is the guideline: you can talk about the politics of an RPG subject, but the second you move away from that to general politics, you are posting out of topic.

If you really have cognitive difficulties understanding this, and cannot grasp the very defined yes/no line, I would suggest you just never post about politics. But of course most the people claiming this definition is somehow "unclear" are just being intentionally obtuse in order to try to attack me and the site.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 24, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
Greetings!

What is the purpose of *complaining*? That just seems like whining to me, or otherwise trying to be purposely hostile and seeking to play "Nyahh Nyahh!" games with Pundit.

Pundit is human, and digresses, gets caught up in topics and side-discussions, just like everyone here has also periodically. Just try and remind people in a thread--respectfully and generously--and then go start a particular political thread in Pundit's Forum about whatever. Go back to the original RPG topic thread, and remind people, "Hey, I have started a thread on X in Pundit's Forum."

There is no problem here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because he's literally the only one on the entire forum free from the threat of a total perma ban for making a misstep like that? Is it really so much to ask for some clarification as to what the vague guideline is supposed to be?

And he just gave that clarification - do as I say, not as I do. Which I think is a shitty guideline because it basically baits people to respond in kind. But it's his forum so what yah gonna do?
Grow up.  It's the same rules as RPG.net, Twitter, Facebook, and any other public forum.  Any borderline posts that support the prevailing narrative get excused, and any that oppose it get pulled.  Go whine on RPG.net about their inconsistent policies, then I'll take your whining here seriously...

I don't use RPG.net.

I come here expressly BECAUSE I enjoy the freedom granted by the moderation policies here.

And I am not even asking for some bright line - just ANY guideline really which is more than "whatever is in Pundit's head at that moment."

That's literally the rule. He could ban everyone whose username starts with "J" and make the site about knitting tomorrow.

If you want a guideline, the one I use is to try to keep it on topic to RPGs in the RPG section. The further political, the more chance Pundit gets fed up.

That is the guideline: you can talk about the politics of an RPG subject, but the second you move away from that to general politics, you are posting out of topic.

If you really have cognitive difficulties understanding this, and cannot grasp the very defined yes/no line, I would suggest you just never post about politics. But of course most the people claiming this definition is somehow "unclear" are just being intentionally obtuse in order to try to attack me and the site.

I think it's unclear, and I'm not being intentionally obtuse or trying to attack you or the site.

Take this thread. It's about Hasbro and a worker at Hasbro specifically and some woke HR training that happened at Hasbro. It has nothing to do with RPGs or WOTC or D&D.
One can make a very tenuous link that maybe this kind of woke HR training is representative of the kind of woke attitude at WOTC. But there has been absolutley nothing posted to make that link so far.
"Packaging Engineer at Hasbro" does this guy even work or live in the Seattle area? Where did the training take place? Was it even in the same state as WOTC?

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 12:02:52 AM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes. Again, this was all voluntary, and there are any number of other courses (like a HUGE catalog of them) that I could have taken instead. 

Not saying that's the case here, but given O'Keefe's history, it's a good bet there's more to the story.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2021, 12:39:56 AM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 25, 2021, 01:20:18 AM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes.

Well, I'm certainly glad that a "cool" training course about myopic attitudes specified white people in it's title. [/s]
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 25, 2021, 02:03:14 AM
Greetings!

Hmmm...I have to say that of course this thread is relevant to WOTC and RPG's. It specifically deals with stuff going on and influencing HASBRO. HASBRO, and their policies, etc, has everything to do with WOTC.

To believe otherwise, well, ACTIVISION is to BLIZZARD what HASBRO is to WOTC. Everything that ACTIVISION does has an influence on BLIZZARD. I imagine that the relationship between HASBRO and WOTC is very similar.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 12:43:48 PM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
The difference is that, this time, in the teacher unions’ laziness in not going back to face-to-face learning and the government keeping people out of work, they’ve spewed their toxic garbage fed to the children over Zoom within earshot of parents and, most importantly, fathers who aren’t interested in comity and conflict avoidance as so many mothers are... and have now heard firsthand the sick CRT propaganda calling them and their children evil and deserving of death by dint of skin color.

The second reason it’s different this time is that CRT isn’t something hard to understand; it’s pure race-based hate propaganda and almost no one beyond the utterly deranged wants their own children indoctrinated to hate.

That is definitely going to bite WotC in ass as people realize the agenda being baked into D&D going forward* because things like “white toddlers are racist” coming from leaked training seminars of the parent company is the same sort of easy-to-grok hatred that’s seeing Netflix and it’s endless parade of “we hate white people, particularly men” new content bleed subs, Black Widow dropping 80% in its second week, the networks wanting to end Neilson Ratings because their woke content keeps losing, etc.

People are already walking away from the CRT madness and WotC/Hasbro is just one more thing and RPGs are one the easiest things to find alternatives for to the Wokist garbage (ex. some people I game with just dusted off their old Spycraft 1e books from the early 2000’s for a campaign).

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

What is this travesty from?  The new pseudo Harry Potter WOTC offering?

This is what D&D players are into? 

It went from battle axes, warlords and sorcerers to this?  How long have I been asleep?

I am surely not the target demographic anymore.  This is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: SHARK on July 25, 2021, 12:58:15 PM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
The difference is that, this time, in the teacher unions’ laziness in not going back to face-to-face learning and the government keeping people out of work, they’ve spewed their toxic garbage fed to the children over Zoom within earshot of parents and, most importantly, fathers who aren’t interested in comity and conflict avoidance as so many mothers are... and have now heard firsthand the sick CRT propaganda calling them and their children evil and deserving of death by dint of skin color.

The second reason it’s different this time is that CRT isn’t something hard to understand; it’s pure race-based hate propaganda and almost no one beyond the utterly deranged wants their own children indoctrinated to hate.

That is definitely going to bite WotC in ass as people realize the agenda being baked into D&D going forward* because things like “white toddlers are racist” coming from leaked training seminars of the parent company is the same sort of easy-to-grok hatred that’s seeing Netflix and it’s endless parade of “we hate white people, particularly men” new content bleed subs, Black Widow dropping 80% in its second week, the networks wanting to end Neilson Ratings because their woke content keeps losing, etc.

People are already walking away from the CRT madness and WotC/Hasbro is just one more thing and RPGs are one the easiest things to find alternatives for to the Wokist garbage (ex. some people I game with just dusted off their old Spycraft 1e books from the early 2000’s for a campaign).

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

What is this travesty from?  The new pseudo Harry Potter WOTC offering?

This is what D&D players are into? 

It went from battle axes, warlords and sorcerers to this?  How long have I been asleep?

I am surely not the target demographic anymore.  This is embarrassing.

Greetings!

It's all about drilling for oil now. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 25, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

In D&D, there tend to be two types of art: Pictures of PCs preparing to slay monsters, and pictures of monsters the PCs are about to slay. The picture can't be a party, because there are no monsters for them to kill and they're not gearing up for anything except regret. So by the process of elimination, these must be monsters the PCs are intended to kill.

Which makes the new art problematic not progressive.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: DocJones on July 25, 2021, 01:45:11 PM
What the hell is going wrong with their mouths in that painting?
I want to slay anyone who smiles like that.
Why is that elf thing purple?
Are those lesbian elf and cat critters on the left?


Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 25, 2021, 01:49:18 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

In D&D, there tend to be two types of art: Pictures of PCs preparing to slay monsters, and pictures of monsters the PCs are about to slay. The picture can't be a party, because there are no monsters for them to kill and they're not gearing up for anything except regret. So by the process of elimination, these must be monsters the PCs are intended to kill.

Which makes the new art problematic not progressive.

The real monster in the room, was the monster of misunderstanding <cue credits>
Likely, the AD&D Assassin, hiding in the shadows, would agree with you.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 02:13:47 PM
The fact that their agenda is openly targeting children with lead them to creating their own downfall.

Hate to say it. But no it wont.

They will push this like all their other screeds. "Think of the children! its for their own good! We have to protect them! Properly "educate" them!". And people will as usual not and agree with these lunatics rather than call them out.

Its been this way with the last two iterations and its in full swing with the current. They opened up during this one with the usual "Think of the children" and calling for carding and background checks on DMs and on and on.
The difference is that, this time, in the teacher unions’ laziness in not going back to face-to-face learning and the government keeping people out of work, they’ve spewed their toxic garbage fed to the children over Zoom within earshot of parents and, most importantly, fathers who aren’t interested in comity and conflict avoidance as so many mothers are... and have now heard firsthand the sick CRT propaganda calling them and their children evil and deserving of death by dint of skin color.

The second reason it’s different this time is that CRT isn’t something hard to understand; it’s pure race-based hate propaganda and almost no one beyond the utterly deranged wants their own children indoctrinated to hate.

That is definitely going to bite WotC in ass as people realize the agenda being baked into D&D going forward* because things like “white toddlers are racist” coming from leaked training seminars of the parent company is the same sort of easy-to-grok hatred that’s seeing Netflix and it’s endless parade of “we hate white people, particularly men” new content bleed subs, Black Widow dropping 80% in its second week, the networks wanting to end Neilson Ratings because their woke content keeps losing, etc.

People are already walking away from the CRT madness and WotC/Hasbro is just one more thing and RPGs are one the easiest things to find alternatives for to the Wokist garbage (ex. some people I game with just dusted off their old Spycraft 1e books from the early 2000’s for a campaign).

* sidebar: WTF is it with SJWs and PROM!?! You see it again and again in recent woke media and the latest announced setting from WotC is some magic school bs talking about the “hot mess and frenemies of school life” with THIS as one of their big marketing pieces...

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

What is this travesty from?  The new pseudo Harry Potter WOTC offering?

This is what D&D players are into? 

It went from battle axes, warlords and sorcerers to this?  How long have I been asleep?

I am surely not the target demographic anymore.  This is embarrassing.

Greetings!

It's all about drilling for oil now. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark,

I tell you…I laughed out loud at your assessment.  I will say such themes are increasingly prominent.  Not sure what to say…other than I admit to some level of embarrassment that the game is trying to capture magic proms whatever the orifice is the goal!  Lol!

So we played BECMI with my 7 year old yesterday.  It was us old guys sharing the hobby.  I let the kid know hey!  We might die!  But it’s ok we can play a new character if we have to! 

In the end, his dwarf ended an ogre with his hammer.  Retainers were getting brained left and right. 

The yelling and high fives were the real deal.  So nice to share with my son!  I was his age when a older neighbor showed his moldvay books to me and planted the seed. 

Point being, my son liked the idea of his dwarf as gargauth “the ogre slayer.”  Earned on the tabletop!  Proud father son moment…

I don’t care if people want to play gay prom.  I find it sad that is what is being promoted though.  And even sadder that folks on other boards constantly remind me that xp for  gold is so passé…that “murder hobo” is no good no how and almost all adventuring is just that.   Now if you say hey, this is that “bad wrong fun” we are so against, right?  Crickets.  From top to bottom, the push is away from adventure and fantasy archetypes to homoerotic Star Trek in the fucking Renaissance.  It is depressing.  It seems like the death of a culture is imminent.

Any such sentiment is literally silenced nearly everywhere these days save here, which of course means this site is oh so icky and problematic.

Long live the ogre slayer!

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jeff37923 on July 25, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

I'm interpreting it as something I won't be spending money on.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jam The MF on July 25, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
Yes!!!  Long live the Ogre Slayer!!!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 02:40:02 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

I'm interpreting it as something I won't be spending money on.

You’re not into  homoerotic Star Trek in the fucking Renaissance.?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 02:40:33 PM
Yes!!!  Long live the Ogre Slayer!!!

Haha!  Indeed!  He wants to play again of course…
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: HappyDaze on July 25, 2021, 02:46:36 PM
What the hell is going wrong with their mouths in that painting?
I want to slay anyone who smiles like that.
Why is that elf thing purple?
Are those lesbian elf and cat critters on the left?
I'm not a fan of the art itself, but I don't object to them showing a group of dancers of that has something to do with the product showing it. I don't know anything about the product, and my interest in 5e is pretty low overall, so maybe it's fitting. Whatever.

As for the characters in the art, the one with the tail is likely a tiefling, and the blue elves are (I believe) part of the newer 5e Drow palette (no more midnight black skin anymore). I do recall there were supposed to be some owl-people in this (or another?) product, so maybe cat-people too. Still doesn't explain why they all look like they got gassed by the Joker's Smilex...
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
I don’t care if people want to play gay prom.

Back during the 3/3.5E era, people could play gay prom just fine with The Book of Erotic Fantasy, which was an unusually well thought and well written supplement about anything sex in a fantasy world (only the pictures of "sexy fantasy cosplayers" were just dire). It even started with the definitions of "G", "PG" "PG-13" etc. up to "XXX" as a simple but effective way to create consensus around the table about what was allowed and what wasn't.

As usual, something already thought and done when my grandma was a kid is presented as "new and progressive". And, as usual, with horrifying results  :(
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jeff37923 on July 25, 2021, 03:57:35 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

I'm interpreting it as something I won't be spending money on.

You’re not into  homoerotic Star Trek in the fucking Renaissance.?

I've seen enough Kirk-Spock slashfic to not want to roleplay it at the table. I'm definitely not the target audience for this product.

I did show the article to friends who game that are bi and/or gay and they weren't interested in it either.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 04:01:15 PM
No doubt.  Make em all Herero and I still don’t want anything to do with this kind of goofy shit.   Takes all kinds I guess.  It’s just a different demographic/worldview or whatever they are courting. 
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on July 25, 2021, 05:05:31 PM
I'm looking at that weird prom picture.

Is that an actual game for Dungeons and Dragons now?  :'(

This is not a fake or rhetorical question- it's a serious question.

Someone please tell me that it's just a joke, or a hoax. Lie if you must.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Dapig on July 25, 2021, 05:17:31 PM
I'm looking at that weird prom picture.

Is that an actual game for Dungeons and Dragons now?  :'(

This is not a fake or rhetorical question- it's a serious question.

Someone please tell me that it's just a joke, or a hoax. Lie if you must.

Thank you.
Your incredulous almost made me spit beer.

Dude I hear you!  I am in my 40s and never would have associated a gay prom with medieval fantasy.  From Elric to….Label this as you will.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on July 25, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
I'm looking at that weird prom picture.

Is that an actual game for Dungeons and Dragons now?  :'(

This is not a fake or rhetorical question- it's a serious question.

Someone please tell me that it's just a joke, or a hoax. Lie if you must.

Thank you.
Your incredulous almost made me spit beer.

Dude I hear you!  I am in my 40s and never would have associated a gay prom with medieval fantasy.  From Elric to….Label this as you will.


Yes, I am that out of touch with current role playing games. It's not that I didn't know about this, just that I didn't know how insane it's all gotten. AD&D gay proms? Hasbro requiring employees to go to indoctrination meetings where white toddlers are labeled as racists and need "education?" Removing alignments because Drow are meant to represent black people (along with Orcs)? Thank you for your honesty, though.

That's it. I'm going to get going, and get the mechanics of "Ayundell" up and running. The main difference is that it tends to use percentage dice rather than a 20d, and classes are by necessity different.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 05:29:41 PM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes.

Well, I'm certainly glad that a "cool" training course about myopic attitudes specified white people in it's title. [/s]

Congratulations on having the reading comprehension of a cup of warm yogurt I guess
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 05:34:15 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: DocJones on July 25, 2021, 05:39:23 PM
I'm not a fan of the art itself, but I don't object to them showing a group of dancers of that has something to do with the product showing it. I don't know anything about the product, and my interest in 5e is pretty low overall, so maybe it's fitting. Whatever.

As for the characters in the art, the one with the tail is likely a tiefling, and the blue elves are (I believe) part of the newer 5e Drow palette (no more midnight black skin anymore). I do recall there were supposed to be some owl-people in this (or another?) product, so maybe cat-people too. Still doesn't explain why they all look like they got gassed by the Joker's Smilex...
I looked up the artist and her other work does not look like this at all. 
She actually can draw real females with breasts instead of ambiguous androgynous creatures with horrible joker smiles.
I posit it's bad because it was done at the direction of some horrible danger-haired monster.
I think you're right that it is a tiefling.  I haven't played D&D with those.


Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: HappyDaze on July 25, 2021, 05:43:29 PM
I'm not a fan of the art itself, but I don't object to them showing a group of dancers of that has something to do with the product showing it. I don't know anything about the product, and my interest in 5e is pretty low overall, so maybe it's fitting. Whatever.

As for the characters in the art, the one with the tail is likely a tiefling, and the blue elves are (I believe) part of the newer 5e Drow palette (no more midnight black skin anymore). I do recall there were supposed to be some owl-people in this (or another?) product, so maybe cat-people too. Still doesn't explain why they all look like they got gassed by the Joker's Smilex...
I looked up the artist and her other work does not look like this at all. 
She actually can draw real females with breasts instead of ambiguous androgynous creatures with horrible joker smiles.
I posit it's bad because it was done at the direction of some horrible danger-haired monster.
I think you're right that it is a tiefling.  I haven't played D&D with those.
Maybe this is a "junior prom" so as to explain the minimization of secondary sexual characteristics?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 25, 2021, 05:51:54 PM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes.

Well, I'm certainly glad that a "cool" training course about myopic attitudes specified white people in it's title. [/s]

Congratulations on having the reading comprehension of a cup of warm yogurt I guess

Thank you!

I simply found it interesting that even after decades, you remember that they specified white skin color.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Jaeger on July 25, 2021, 06:09:29 PM
Are you sure you're interpreting that image correctly?

I'm interpreting it as something I won't be spending money on.

You’re not into  homoerotic Star Trek in the fucking Renaissance.?

I've seen enough Kirk-Spock slashfic to not want to roleplay it at the table. I'm definitely not the target audience for this product.

I did show the article to friends who game that are bi and/or gay and they weren't interested in it either.

I for one am Shocked!

Shocked I say; at unrepentant display of In-Your-Face Bigotry I am seeing here!

*pause* - *Checks personal posting history*

Nevermind! Carry on, carry on...
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 06:09:46 PM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes.

Well, I'm certainly glad that a "cool" training course about myopic attitudes specified white people in it's title. [/s]

Congratulations on having the reading comprehension of a cup of warm yogurt I guess

Thank you!

I simply found it interesting that even after decades, you remember that they specified white skin color.

Um... yeah...

(https://img.fae.ro/44d3c6.png)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 25, 2021, 06:10:29 PM
With all the sparkles, at least one of them has to be a vampire.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2021, 06:16:23 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Yep, lying about ACORN.

Proves it!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 07:38:52 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Yep, lying about ACORN.

Proves it!

And Planned Parenthood.

And The New Jersey Teachers' Union.

And Medicaid.

And NPR.

And voting procedures in New Hampshire.

And Hillary Clinton's campaign donations.

I could go on, there is much more, but here's really no point. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of: believing or disbelieving someone based solely on whether or not they uphold your favored narrative. I don't mistrust O'Keefe and Project Veritas because of their politics. I mistrust them because they have such a long and established track record of manipulation and outright lies that trusting them would be foolish. This is not subjective. These are simply the facts of O'Keefe's behavior. Hell, even in cases where it looks as though he may have really been onto something, like with Rep. Moran's son, PV refused to cooperate with authorities. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their claims. About the only thing he probably ever got right was catching ABC out for not running a story on Jeffrey Epstein. Stopped clock and all that.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2021, 07:46:35 PM

(https://images-geeknative-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/18220330/strixhaven-dance-768x994.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)

... Is it just that the SJWs were almost invariably such ugly-on-the-inside hags they never got asked by anyone themselves? I’m thinking “yes”, but I’m open to other interpretations of their weird prom fetish.

What their prom would really look like:

(https://dailyheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/evergreen-bats-twitter-640x480-1.jpg)

I think it's safe to say no SJW will be the next one in line to split the atom.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2021, 07:54:35 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Yep, lying about ACORN.

Proves it!

And Planned Parenthood.

And The New Jersey Teachers' Union.

And Medicaid.

And NPR.

And voting procedures in New Hampshire.

And Hillary Clinton's campaign donations.

I could go on, there is much more, but here's really no point. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of: believing or disbelieving someone based solely on whether or not they uphold your favored narrative. I don't mistrust O'Keefe and Project Veritas because of their politics. I mistrust them because they have such a long and established track record of manipulation and outright lies that trusting them would be foolish. This is not subjective. These are simply the facts of O'Keefe's behavior. Hell, even in cases where it looks as though he may have really been onto something, like with Rep. Moran's son, PV refused to cooperate with authorities. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their claims. About the only thing he probably ever got right was catching ABC out for not running a story on Jeffrey Epstein. Stopped clock and all that.

It said that on CNN so it must be right.

Because of their track record that is.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 25, 2021, 07:58:45 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Yep, lying about ACORN.

Proves it!

And Planned Parenthood.

And The New Jersey Teachers' Union.

And Medicaid.

And NPR.

And voting procedures in New Hampshire.

And Hillary Clinton's campaign donations.

I could go on, there is much more, but here's really no point. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of: believing or disbelieving someone based solely on whether or not they uphold your favored narrative. I don't mistrust O'Keefe and Project Veritas because of their politics. I mistrust them because they have such a long and established track record of manipulation and outright lies that trusting them would be foolish. This is not subjective. These are simply the facts of O'Keefe's behavior. Hell, even in cases where it looks as though he may have really been onto something, like with Rep. Moran's son, PV refused to cooperate with authorities. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their claims. About the only thing he probably ever got right was catching ABC out for not running a story on Jeffrey Epstein. Stopped clock and all that.

It said that on CNN so it must be right.

Because of their track record that is.

That's not where I got the info (can't remember the last time I watched CNN), nor would it be the only source for such info, even if it were. But, thanks for proving my point.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Omega on July 25, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
But you're right. I should probably ban Reckall and yourself for posting about it. But instead I'll just tell both of you not to post any off-topic politics in this thread again.

The problem, as I see it, is that it is almost impossible to separate Wokeism both from his general impact on popular culture as a whole and the political discourse as a whole.


I've been saying this for a long time.

More than once accusations of "ITS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOKE! KEEEEEL IIIIT!" get thrown around at stuff that either isnt, or is so small its completely meaningless.

And as said before. The problem is the woke cult pretty much forces us into this mindset where we MUST scrutinize everything and try and parse out if its legit, or not. Other problem is some are so paranoid they see SJWs where there isnt. Other other problem is that the SJW stuff way outnumbers the legit stuff now so finding the real in the sea of unreal is a task.

This is made all the worse from outrage marketing baiting which is all the rage now. Which damns product we'd have otherwise possibly supported.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 25, 2021, 10:46:16 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Yep, lying about ACORN.

Proves it!

And Planned Parenthood.

And The New Jersey Teachers' Union.

And Medicaid.

And NPR.

And voting procedures in New Hampshire.

And Hillary Clinton's campaign donations.

I could go on, there is much more, but here's really no point. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of: believing or disbelieving someone based solely on whether or not they uphold your favored narrative. I don't mistrust O'Keefe and Project Veritas because of their politics. I mistrust them because they have such a long and established track record of manipulation and outright lies that trusting them would be foolish. This is not subjective. These are simply the facts of O'Keefe's behavior. Hell, even in cases where it looks as though he may have really been onto something, like with Rep. Moran's son, PV refused to cooperate with authorities. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their claims. About the only thing he probably ever got right was catching ABC out for not running a story on Jeffrey Epstein. Stopped clock and all that.

You do realise the the whistleblower sought them out to make the story public, not the other way around right?

If you want to plainly state that the whistleblower is lying, fabricated the event and is fleecing everyone, go right ahead and just say it if that's what your trying to vaguely do.  It's annoying beating around the bush on the subject.

<edit> I see you did initially say something to that effect earlier, so disregard the paragraph above.  I'm not going to erase what I said initially as I'm not a big fan of things just disappearing from posts <edit>

If it was a sham, then Hasbro would have been very quick to point this out.  I haven't seen any evidence as such, other than their lackluster 'it does not reflect our views, as we seem to have no actual meaningful stance to take' nonsense.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Mistwell on July 25, 2021, 11:24:11 PM

If it was a sham, then Hasbro would have been very quick to point this out. 

I don't think Hasbro has done anything in reaction. Which is what they've done with most controversies regardless of which side they were on with them.

I do think there is some response, from someone in position to know, that it might not have been mandatory but was purely voluntarily (one among many voluntary lectures they make available on a wide variety of topics) and the decision for a group to attend might have been left to a group leader? And as a contractor, he wasn't a leader so he might not have been given a choice but that doesn't mean Hasbro was making that decision for him either?

IF it was voluntary and not even well attended but just was a thing his small group did, this becomes a much bigger non-issue to me. There is a huge difference in my mind between forcing all employees to follow a policy from a mandatory course, and a handful of employees zooming in to one of many lectures they can choose to watch on a bunch of subjects. I just don't know yet what this really was.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 25, 2021, 11:42:32 PM
Well, it looks like the makers of the video material are not waiting around to make some remark.
Interestingly, they go after Veritas as to their views, but not the person who made the comments:  it's a weak, weak move which I think we are fully aware of the reason why:  I can almost hear the eggshells being crunched as everyone tiptoes around this blatant fact.

https://www.theconsciouskid.org/news

It's inevitable that Hasbro is going to have to make some sort of meaningful statement as I don't see this going away anytime soon.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 12:57:17 AM
The dude isn't even a Hasbro employee, he's a temp worker from an outside company. Now, nearly 200k has been raised for him. His story may or may not add up. There is really only his side of things out at this point, and James O'Keefe is not a reliable narrator.

Decades ago, I worked for a company where I was required to take a certain number of hours of paid training per year. But the nature of that training was largely up to me. I took mainly management and technology classes (remote), and a very popular (in-person) class called "White Men, Women, and Minorities: Culture and Power In America." It was actually pretty cool. Despite the name, it was pretty even-handed, and I specifically remember that the instructor wasn't just calling out whites (or men) for having shitty behaviors. It was more about getting people to recognize and challenge their own myopic attitudes.

Well, I'm certainly glad that a "cool" training course about myopic attitudes specified white people in it's title. [/s]

Congratulations on having the reading comprehension of a cup of warm yogurt I guess

Thank you!

I simply found it interesting that even after decades, you remember that they specified white skin color.

Um... yeah...

(https://img.fae.ro/44d3c6.png)

Ok, so help me out here. I didn't take the course. What does that even mean? Were they describing the people giving the talk? Or the people attending? All I have for context is the negative connotation in current media around white people.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 26, 2021, 01:35:03 AM
If it was a sham, then Hasbro would have been very quick to point this out.  I haven't seen any evidence as such, other than their lackluster 'it does not reflect our views, as we seem to have no actual meaningful stance to take' nonsense.

It's not like the two choices are "total lie" or "total truth". If he was exaggerating or embellishing parts but there was some truth, then Hasbro might still want to minimize its response to avoid greater publicity.

Jumping in a little late, and I haven't watched the full video - is there any corroboration other than the screen captures shown in the first part of the video?

I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 03:18:48 AM
If it was a sham, then Hasbro would have been very quick to point this out.  I haven't seen any evidence as such, other than their lackluster 'it does not reflect our views, as we seem to have no actual meaningful stance to take' nonsense.

It's not like the two choices are "total lie" or "total truth". If he was exaggerating or embellishing parts but there was some truth, then Hasbro might still want to minimize its response to avoid greater publicity.

Jumping in a little late, and I haven't watched the full video - is there any corroboration other than the screen captures shown in the first part of the video?

I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

Because racism has a very defined meaning.

Now keep trying to obscure the facts.

Hasbro hired a racist couple to impart racist indoctrination and want to try and include that indoctrination in their products.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Omega on July 26, 2021, 05:26:33 AM
Lets not forget that people are pretty much keyed to be wary of certain coloues. Black being one simply because the dark and shadows can contain dangers and more than a few aggressive insects have a black element to them.

It all reminds me of the 'study' about humans being aquatic because babies born in the water can swim or somesuch. There was a fairly popular mini-documentary on it way back.

Or the study on children eating healthy foods only. By taking away the choice.

And so on. So I tend to look on these "proofs" with more than a bit of suspicion when its being used as whatever current wave of moral guardians claims to racism. Because odds are approaching 100% that its bunko.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Gameogre on July 26, 2021, 05:47:37 AM
Quote
I think it's safe to say no SJW will be the next one in line to split the atom.

First they would cancel splitting all together as it's seen as virtue signaling and then change the name of Atoms to Evems to promote gender equality. 
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 26, 2021, 10:24:59 AM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: tenbones on July 26, 2021, 11:13:58 AM
So do you support teaching children CRT at 3-years of age from toy manufacturers?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ocule on July 26, 2021, 11:49:55 AM
The more I see shit like this the more I think we need to be a lot more aggressive in pushing these people out of society. We are up against an enemy in a war of information who has no scruples, no moral foundation and nothing is off limits. We need to find a way to crush their will to fight. We know they eat their own and turn on each other easily so let’s drive that metaphorical wedge in deeper.

Then while they’re destroying each other we can push back and start driving them out. By the time we finished the goals will be to have crushed their will fight, ostracized those who won’t let go from society, and removed them from all places of power and influence. Let’s teach it in schools of the absurd movement that devoured itself, and make a mockery of the virtue signaling and Hypocritical bullshit with the same tone as we teach about groups like the kkk or the Nazis. Turn their tools against them.

The alternative is much more violent and bloody the way things are going. But to quote Heinlenn  here… violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 01:14:10 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

So, because in the 60's? black toddlers liked white dolls therefore white toddlers are racist?

Also, racial identity is what the nazis promoted, it's what the black nationalists promotes and it's also what CRT promotes.

How are you gonna end racism by promoting racial identity?

By using the "African-American", "Asian-American" etc monikers you are saying those aren't fully Americans, and also Africa and Asia have several different ethnicities and cultures you bigot.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Zalman on July 26, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.

... that demonstrates a preference for doll color. Features are more evident to the human eye with lighter colors. Humans prefer lighter colored dogs too, but racists gonna racist.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that humans prefer RPG book covers that aren't too dark to read as well!
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 01:19:12 PM
Looking even further for details, the doll study was not done on toddlers.

https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-brown-v-board-education/significance-doll-test/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler

And I wouldn't want to play with either of those dolls. They all look fugly.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 01:22:49 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?

O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

All in an effort to give cover to the assertion that white children are racist.

Racism:

noun

Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 01:26:16 PM
Looking even further for details, the doll study was not done on toddlers.

https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-brown-v-board-education/significance-doll-test/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler

And I wouldn't want to play with either of those dolls. They all look fugly.

Also: "Dr. Kenneth Clark was dismayed that the court failed to cite two other conclusions he had reached: that racism was an inherently American institution and that school segregation inhibited the development of white children, too."

LOL, yes, because we never saw racism in Africa between Africans against other Africans. Or from Arabs against Africans, or any other race against other races.

This Dr is a snake oil salesman.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: oggsmash on July 26, 2021, 02:29:17 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

   They concluded this was due to racism?   Did they do any control studies for what characteristics were preferred among all races?  I do remember reading something around that years ago, about blonde hair and blue eyes.   So it strikes me as odd those were on the dolls, when they could have just been white dolls with brown hair and brown eyes.  I have a feeling the people doing the research knew that blonde hair and blue eyes have ALWAYS been desirable pretty much every where they show up.  I also wonder if they would have presented a black doll with blonde hair and blue eyes what the kids would have chosen.   
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jeff37923 on July 26, 2021, 03:24:58 PM
One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.

... that demonstrates a preference for doll color. Features are more evident to the human eye with lighter colors. Humans prefer lighter colored dogs too, but racists gonna racist.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that humans prefer RPG book covers that aren't too dark to read as well!


Ahem, Traveller.

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9781906103330-us.jpg)
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Yeti Spaghetti on July 26, 2021, 03:34:11 PM
I think Scalia said that he would have dissented in the Brown case, and it might have been because of the dubious nature of evidence like the doll test.

Of course, he also said he would have dissented in the Plessy case, which he viewed as judicial activism for racists.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 26, 2021, 04:16:02 PM
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.


I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO
So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.
O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

(1) I share skepticism about social sciences -- but if the question is "can young children be racially biased", that's inherently a social science question. It's not going to get answered by a physics study or a chemistry study. If you have better studies that address the question, I'd be interested to see them.

(2) I haven't said anything about extrapolation. I would think that the results will vary depending on time and place. I would be interested to see about results from other countries - my search only turned up attempts in the U.S.

(3) GeekyBugle - you previously claimed that inherently, toddlers will prefer people that look like their parents. Do still think that black toddlers in the U.S. will prefer black people over white people? Is there any evidence that demonstrates that?


Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.

Again, the Clark doll test isn't part of CRT. It shows the even black children in America are biased against black dolls, which is different what you're arguing against here.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: oggsmash on July 26, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.


I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO
So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.
O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

(1) I share skepticism about social sciences -- but if the question is "can young children be racially biased", that's inherently a social science question. It's not going to get answered by a physics study or a chemistry study. If you have better studies that address the question, I'd be interested to see them.

(2) I haven't said anything about extrapolation. I would think that the results will vary depending on time and place. I would be interested to see about results from other countries - my search only turned up attempts in the U.S.

(3) GeekyBugle - you previously claimed that inherently, toddlers will prefer people that look like their parents. Do still think that black toddlers in the U.S. will prefer black people over white people? Is there any evidence that demonstrates that?


Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.

Again, the Clark doll test isn't part of CRT. It shows the even black children in America are biased against black dolls, which is different what you're arguing against here.

   So if blue eyes and blond hair are preferable traits, preferring those traits in a doll or person you are looking at is racist?   I still do not see how any measure of the test did anything but show blonde hair and blue eyes are visually pleasing.    Social science is complete bullshit and reminds me of "stopping power" studies with firearms.  You can make it come out any way you want it to.

   Regarding original civil rights movement, shitloads of commies all over that movement, who were in it for anything but civil rights, but it made a great cloak to wear to see your will done.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 05:10:02 PM
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

Did anyone say the Clark Doll test was somehow connected to CRT or the SJW movement? I don't care either way. I care about how accurate, current and reliable the data are. Especially when someone is using it as a data point when making a claim.

Quote
One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.

The argument was that toddlers are racist. You provided one test done over 60 years ago as possible evidence that the claim was true, but as I pointed out, the test wasn't even done on toddlers, much less evidence that modern day toddlers are racist, or that the perception of racist attitudes in toddlers can't potentially be explained by other factors.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 26, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
Anyone arguing against Toddlers being racist has obviously never met a real life Toddler.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
Regarding the Clark doll test -- I would emphasize again that this isn't part of Critical Race Theory or any 2020-era SJWism. It's a study from over sixty years ago that was influential in the original Civil Rights Movement.

One could say that the Clark doll test isn't true anymore in modern day is one thing -- but saying the test was always bullshit is another. It isn't arguing against modern-day SJWs. It's arguing against figures like Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and other early civil rights leaders. I haven't read the full studies, but a quick Google search suggests the test has been reproduced a number of times in later decades with varying results.


I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.
Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO
So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.
O God, I thought this was a serious study, forgot we're dealing with social "sciences".

253 children... From this they extrapolate to ALL children in all places and SOME ppl here pretend also that this "scientific" study can be extrapolated to today and maybe to other races too.

(1) I share skepticism about social sciences -- but if the question is "can young children be racially biased", that's inherently a social science question. It's not going to get answered by a physics study or a chemistry study. If you have better studies that address the question, I'd be interested to see them.

(2) I haven't said anything about extrapolation. I would think that the results will vary depending on time and place. I would be interested to see about results from other countries - my search only turned up attempts in the U.S.

(3) GeekyBugle - you previously claimed that inherently, toddlers will prefer people that look like their parents. Do still think that black toddlers in the U.S. will prefer black people over white people? Is there any evidence that demonstrates that?


Now prove white children are racist, and that children from other races aren't, because that's CRT.

Again, the Clark doll test isn't part of CRT. It shows the even black children in America are biased against black dolls, which is different what you're arguing against here.

As Ratman_tf points out, the argument was that ppl pushing CRT claim that WHITE toddlers are racist, you (or someone else) provided the Clark doll test as evidence that this is true.

The study is BS, pure, inadulterated, steaming BS. Was not conducted on toddlers, ridiculously small sample size and is over 60 years old.

The study talks explicity about racial identity, same BS pushed by nazis, black nationalists (the black panthers and Malcom X for example) and again as Ratman_tf points out lots of commie scum to be found there. This exact same BS is pushed by CRT.

Did you think CRT was full of original brand new ideas?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 05:50:21 PM
Anyone arguing against Toddlers being racist has obviously never met a real life Toddler.

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 26, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
   So if blue eyes and blond hair are preferable traits, preferring those traits in a doll or person you are looking at is racist?   I still do not see how any measure of the test did anything but show blonde hair and blue eyes are visually pleasing.    Social science is complete bullshit and reminds me of "stopping power" studies with firearms.  You can make it come out any way you want it to.

If you have an alternative to social science in order to use evidence to understand social behavior like racism, then I'd be interested to hear about it.

As for what defines a "racist"...  That's a semantic argument that has no obvious answer.

But qualitatively, the children in the study didn't just say that the white dolls were prettier. They also more often said the white dolls were nicer, and more often said that the black dolls were bad. I see similar comments in more recent tests trying to reproduce the results. For example, here was a study that worked without questions but just qualitatively observing play:

Quote
Without asking specific questions as the Clarks did, I still found a great deal of bias in how the girls treated the dolls. The girls rarely chose the Black dolls during play. On the rare occasions that the girls chose the Black dolls, they mistreated them. One time a Black girl put the doll in a pot and pretended to cook the doll. That’s not something the girls did with the dolls that weren’t Black.
Source: https://theconversation.com/what-i-learned-when-i-recreated-the-famous-doll-test-that-looked-at-how-black-kids-see-race-153780

It seems like you're arguing that blonde-haired blue-eyed dolls are objectively more visually pleasing, which explains the children's behavior. Regardless of semantics, the point is that children should learn to treat people equally regardless of race.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 06:32:44 PM
   So if blue eyes and blond hair are preferable traits, preferring those traits in a doll or person you are looking at is racist?   I still do not see how any measure of the test did anything but show blonde hair and blue eyes are visually pleasing.    Social science is complete bullshit and reminds me of "stopping power" studies with firearms.  You can make it come out any way you want it to.

If you have an alternative to social science in order to use evidence to understand social behavior like racism, then I'd be interested to hear about it.

As for what defines a "racist"...  That's a semantic argument that has no obvious answer.

But qualitatively, the children in the study didn't just say that the white dolls were prettier. They also more often said the white dolls were nicer, and more often said that the black dolls were bad. I see similar comments in more recent tests trying to reproduce the results. For example, here was a study that worked without questions but just qualitatively observing play:

Quote
Without asking specific questions as the Clarks did, I still found a great deal of bias in how the girls treated the dolls. The girls rarely chose the Black dolls during play. On the rare occasions that the girls chose the Black dolls, they mistreated them. One time a Black girl put the doll in a pot and pretended to cook the doll. That’s not something the girls did with the dolls that weren’t Black.
Source: https://theconversation.com/what-i-learned-when-i-recreated-the-famous-doll-test-that-looked-at-how-black-kids-see-race-153780

It seems like you're arguing that blonde-haired blue-eyed dolls are objectively more visually pleasing, which explains the children's behavior. Regardless of semantics, the point is that children should learn to treat people equally regardless of race.

How about reforming social sciences to be quantitative and not based on feelings?

And mistreating the doll that most resembles the girl couldn't be explained by other factors like abuse from the mother right?

It's not like small children playing with dolls that have sex among themselves has been a clue that said child has been abused or anything.

Yes, children should learn to judge people based on their character and not the color of their skin. Something CRT (And the ppl hired by Hasbro PUSH CRT) clearly and explicity opposes.

Also, something you need to prove, is that black girls preferring blonde dolls and/or mistreating the black ones somehow reflects on white children and on all children's behaviour to people.

Dolls aren't people, pixels aren't people, drawings aren't people, imaginary races aren't people.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 26, 2021, 06:48:11 PM
But qualitatively, the children in the study didn't just say that the white dolls were prettier. They also more often said the white dolls were nicer, and more often said that the black dolls were bad. I see similar comments in more recent tests trying to reproduce the results. For example, here was a study that worked without questions but just qualitatively observing play:

Quote
Without asking specific questions as the Clarks did, I still found a great deal of bias in how the girls treated the dolls. The girls rarely chose the Black dolls during play. On the rare occasions that the girls chose the Black dolls, they mistreated them. One time a Black girl put the doll in a pot and pretended to cook the doll. That’s not something the girls did with the dolls that weren’t Black.
Source: https://theconversation.com/what-i-learned-when-i-recreated-the-famous-doll-test-that-looked-at-how-black-kids-see-race-153780

Dude. That's one person in a daycare. And the wording of her article leads me to believe there was a certain bias in her observations.
Too bad the actual paper is behind a paywall, and the data is password protected.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10643-020-01095-9

And.

Again.

These are not toddlers. The original statement was about toddlers.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on July 26, 2021, 07:33:27 PM
As a former science major I should mention that so-called social "sciences" were always at best a "soft" science.

Things like chemistry and math are actual sciences. 2+2=4, period. Mix two particular chemicals under certain conditions and the result will always be the same.

Recently an article in that "recommended by Pocket" claimed that the view of women as gatherers and men as hunters was not true, that "new evidence" suggested that women did hunt the mammoth (yeah, right). This "new evidence" is nothing more than feminist demands. Margaret Mead did terrible damage to the once-legitimate science of anthropology.

When it comes to any sort of study looking for bias from whites, including children, notice how we are never given details about anything. This is because the "social scientists" WANT a certain outcome, to prove their already-decided conclusions. The idea that white toddlers can be racially biased at two years of age but not black or hispanic toddlers is so obviously SJW it's disgusting, and would require such a bizarre twist in the theory of evolution (which I do not believe in- nobody knows how we got here) as to be the stuff of bad 1990's science fiction.

Those Hasbro re-education camp...oh, excuse me, "sensitivity training" sessions- are merely the next logical link in what has been happening for decades now- whitey is evil. The next step from there is to have "critical race theory experts" go to kindergarten or nursery schools and "educate" white children by putting them in chains to show them what whites were guilty of- as has already been done in places. Me, I would have hit that smug &*$$@*&! with a heavy chair even as a kid. Which only proves I'm a racist, of course. Right?  >:(

Keep this website going, rpgPundit. We need it. Especially now.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 26, 2021, 07:34:57 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Are you trying to claim that the actual video of the HASBRO training its employees about how all white babies are vile racists is somehow a fake?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 26, 2021, 07:36:14 PM
I'm not a fan of the art itself, but I don't object to them showing a group of dancers of that has something to do with the product showing it. I don't know anything about the product, and my interest in 5e is pretty low overall, so maybe it's fitting. Whatever.

As for the characters in the art, the one with the tail is likely a tiefling, and the blue elves are (I believe) part of the newer 5e Drow palette (no more midnight black skin anymore). I do recall there were supposed to be some owl-people in this (or another?) product, so maybe cat-people too. Still doesn't explain why they all look like they got gassed by the Joker's Smilex...
I looked up the artist and her other work does not look like this at all. 
She actually can draw real females with breasts instead of ambiguous androgynous creatures with horrible joker smiles.
I posit it's bad because it was done at the direction of some horrible danger-haired monster.
I think you're right that it is a tiefling.  I haven't played D&D with those.
Maybe this is a "junior prom" so as to explain the minimization of secondary sexual characteristics?

Nope. The setting is a university, not a high school. Why a University has a "prom" is just another mystery of the warped fucked up minds of the SJW left.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 26, 2021, 07:47:35 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

It appears that the Conscious Kids gang, Hasbro, the entirety of the modern Left, and presumable Kim here, all think that the "solution" to that is to do everything possible to make sure that instead of making sure of that phenomenon disappearing (which, I strongly suspect, it already has), what they think has to happen is that it needs to be Reversed.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 26, 2021, 07:51:47 PM
Also, I surrender; this thread can't seem to stay on topic, so I'm moving it to the Pundit's forum.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Tubesock Army on July 26, 2021, 10:39:53 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Are you trying to claim that the actual video of the HASBRO training its employees about how all white babies are vile racists is somehow a fake?

No, I'm plainly stating that, given his track record, O'Keefe is about a reliable a narrator as Michael Moore. Nothing he says should be taken at face value, so I'm waiting for more information.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 11:25:27 PM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Are you trying to claim that the actual video of the HASBRO training its employees about how all white babies are vile racists is somehow a fake?

No, I'm plainly stating that, given his track record, O'Keefe is about a reliable a narrator as Michael Moore. Nothing he says should be taken at face value, so I'm waiting for more information.

His track record?

Care to provide PROOF that he lied?

And I do mean PROOF, not assertions by corporate media.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 26, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
I'd be curious about corroborating what the course says about toddlers. It sounds here like many are saying that attributing racism in toddlers is insane -- but as Pat mentioned earlier, racial bias in toddlers has been well documented for decades. The bias of toddlers in treating identical white-skinned dolls vs black-skinned dolls (the Clark doll test) was one of the key arguments for desegregation in the 1950s.

Wow, toddlers tend to prefer people that look like their parents!

Is this true for all toddlers? YES

Does this prove racism? NO

So apparently you're not familiar with the Clark doll test. This is the opposite of what the test found. What it found, instead, was that American black toddlers preferred *white* dolls - and would say those dolls are prettier and nicer, while attributing negative traits to identical black-skinned dolls.

Quote
The Doll Test looked at 253 black children aged three to seven years old: 134 of the children attended segregated nursery schools in Arkansas and 119 who attended integrated schools in Massachusetts. They each were all shown four dolls: two with white skin and yellow hair, and two with brown skin and black hair. Each student was asked to identify the race of the doll and which one they preferred to play with.

The majority of the black students preferred the white doll with yellow hair, assigning positive traits to it. Meanwhile, most discarded the brown doll with black hair, assigning it negative traits. The Clarks concluded that black children formed a racial identity by the age of three and attached negative traits to their own identity, which were perpetuated by segregation and prejudice.
Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/psychologist-work-racial-identity-helped-overturn-school-segregation-180966934/

One survey from a very specific time and place. 1950's pre-de-segreation America. On a very small sample size at that.
Have any studies been done since then, and in other places and cultures?

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

It appears that the Conscious Kids gang, Hasbro, the entirety of the modern Left, and presumable Kim here, all think that the "solution" to that is to do everything possible to make sure that instead of making sure of that phenomenon disappearing (which, I strongly suspect, it already has), what they think has to happen is that it needs to be Reversed.

Well, one of the gurus of the cult (the author of White Fragility) has said that there needs to be a white racial awakening.

Their founding fathers have spoken and wrote against MLK's way of doing things (judging by character and not race).

So I guess it's fair and accurate to say they do want to reverse anything gained by MLK's activism.

Just watch them demand segregation.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 26, 2021, 11:57:38 PM
Highly disturbing...
The whistleblower looks legit.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Shasarak on July 27, 2021, 12:44:19 AM
Like Tubesock, I also have an annecdotal story about once having to do training at work which proves that because O'Keefe takes peoples own words and uses it against them without changing them to fit my narrative therefore he can not be trusted.

Might also have something to do with O'Keefe, y'know, lying about ACORN (as determined by the California State AG and the GAO - I know, I know, they're all "deep state" lol),

Are you trying to claim that the actual video of the HASBRO training its employees about how all white babies are vile racists is somehow a fake?

No, I'm plainly stating that, given his track record, O'Keefe is about a reliable a narrator as Michael Moore. Nothing he says should be taken at face value, so I'm waiting for more information.

Its not O'Keefe narrating.

But why look at primary sources.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: HappyDaze on July 27, 2021, 02:54:11 AM
Also, I surrender; this thread can't seem to stay on topic, so I'm moving it to the Pundit's forum.
Better late than never. Thank you.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: oggsmash on July 27, 2021, 08:25:05 AM
   So if blue eyes and blond hair are preferable traits, preferring those traits in a doll or person you are looking at is racist?   I still do not see how any measure of the test did anything but show blonde hair and blue eyes are visually pleasing.    Social science is complete bullshit and reminds me of "stopping power" studies with firearms.  You can make it come out any way you want it to.

If you have an alternative to social science in order to use evidence to understand social behavior like racism, then I'd be interested to hear about it.

As for what defines a "racist"...  That's a semantic argument that has no obvious answer.

But qualitatively, the children in the study didn't just say that the white dolls were prettier. They also more often said the white dolls were nicer, and more often said that the black dolls were bad. I see similar comments in more recent tests trying to reproduce the results. For example, here was a study that worked without questions but just qualitatively observing play:

Quote
Without asking specific questions as the Clarks did, I still found a great deal of bias in how the girls treated the dolls. The girls rarely chose the Black dolls during play. On the rare occasions that the girls chose the Black dolls, they mistreated them. One time a Black girl put the doll in a pot and pretended to cook the doll. That’s not something the girls did with the dolls that weren’t Black.
Source: https://theconversation.com/what-i-learned-when-i-recreated-the-famous-doll-test-that-looked-at-how-black-kids-see-race-153780

It seems like you're arguing that blonde-haired blue-eyed dolls are objectively more visually pleasing, which explains the children's behavior. Regardless of semantics, the point is that children should learn to treat people equally regardless of race.

  Again, people are not dolls.  The experiment is bullshit.  I am not arguing blonde hair and blue eyes are more pleasing, I am asking if these dipshits making assertions bothered to test that across all races of all toddlers, before using a small group to make leaping assumptions.    I am not one to really care to understand or search for racism behind every door and under every rock either.  I find if you think monsters are everywhere, suddenly all of your searches and investigations find monsters all the time.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 01:32:42 PM
I wasn't going to post this because it's not directly related to RPGs, but since the thread has been moved to Pundit's forum, it may help provide some context.

Below is a section on the brain's immediate response to race from Sapolsky's Behave, which is an attempt to synthesize current (2017) understanding of how the human brain functions, from biology through psychology and culture. It draws on all major relevant fields, like neurology, endocrinology, psychology, anthropology, sociology, and so on. This isn't a book about race, it's just comes up a few times as part of how humans think.

Sapolsky is a neurobiologist and primatologist, so he's coming at this from the perspective of biology first and social sciences second. But he does think biology and psychology and culture are inexorably intertwined. He's not deterministic; while the brain has inherent tendencies, he presents a lot of evidence that the specifics can be shaped by environmental factors. He doesn't seem to be particularly woke (I'd guess he's probably a Bill Maher style traditional US liberal).

This section is on the immediate response to stimuli. Seconds or less, not centuries or even minutes. As I mentioned before, the immediate responses to race appear to be real, but the brain operates at multiple levels over multiple time frames. The quote is largely about the amygdala, which is inaccurate but fast. Slower and more socially complex responses can override this, like ones from the pre-frontal cortex, not to mention things like culture.

There's more information on how humans response to race in other sections. Much of the response to race seems to be part of the human tendency to group people into Us and Them; in other words it's a specific manifestation of a much broader classification tool. It's also not necessarily aimed at race in specific; Sapolsky points out that our hunter-gatherer ancestors were unlikely to travel far enough to run into people of other races, so any evolutionary pressure to identify races would be weak or non-existent. But the broader tendency to group people into Us/Them categories is deeply embedded in humans, appearing almost at birth, and is omnipresent in how we think. He is highly skeptical of the broad claimed utility of implicit bias tests. He does reference the Clark doll study, but it's a single paragraph in an 800 page book, mostly focused on the self-hating aspect.

The numbers are footnotes, which I can copy if desired.

Quote from: Behave by Robert Sapolsky
A hugely unsettling sensory cue concerns race.7 Our brains are incredibly attuned to skin color. Flash a face for less than a tenth of a second (one hundred milliseconds), so short a time that people aren’t even sure they’ve seen something. Have them guess the race of the pictured face, and there’s a better-than-even chance of accuracy. We may claim to judge someone by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin. But our brains sure as hell note the color, real fast.

By one hundred milliseconds, brain function already differs in two depressing ways, depending on the race of the face (as shown with neuroimaging). First, in a widely replicated finding, the amygdala activates. Moreover, the more racist someone is in an implicit test of race bias (stay tuned), the more activation there is.8

Similarly, repeatedly show subjects a picture of a face accompanied by a shock; soon, seeing the face alone activates the amygdala.9 As shown by Elizabeth Phelps of NYU, such “fear conditioning” occurs faster for other-race than same-race faces. Amygdalae are prepared to learn to associate something bad with Them. Moreover, people judge neutral other-race faces as angrier than neutral same-race faces.

So if whites see a black face shown at a subliminal speed, the amygdala activates.10 But if the face is shown long enough for conscious processing, the anterior cingulate and the “cognitive” dlPFC then activate and inhibit the amygdala. It’s the frontal cortex exerting executive control over the deeper, darker amygdaloid response.

Second depressing finding: subliminal signaling of race also affects the fusiform face area, the cortical region that specializes in facial recognition.11 Damaging the fusiform, for example, selectively produces “face blindness” (aka prosopagnosia), an inability to recognize faces. Work by John Gabrieli at MIT demonstrates less fusiform activation for other-race faces, with the effect strongest in the most implicitly racist subjects. This isn’t about novelty—show a face with purple skin and the fusiform responds as if it’s same-race. The fusiform isn’t fooled—“That’s not an Other; it’s just a ‘normal’ Photoshopped face.”

In accord with that, white Americans remember white better than black faces; moreover, mixed-race faces are remembered better if described as being of a white rather than a black person. Remarkably, if mixed-race subjects are told they’ve been assigned to one of the two races for the study, they show less fusiform response to faces of the arbitrarily designated “other” race.12

Our attunement to race is shown in another way, too.13 Show a video of someone’s hand being poked with a needle, and subjects have an “isomorphic sensorimotor” response—hands tense in empathy. Among both whites and blacks, the response is blunted for other-race hands; the more the implicit racism, the more blunting. Similarly, among subjects of both races, there’s more activation of the (emotional) medial PFC when considering misfortune befalling a member of their own race than of another race.

This has major implications. In work by Joshua Correll at the University of Colorado, subjects were rapidly shown pictures of people holding either a gun or a cell phone and were told to shoot (only) gun toters. This is painfully reminiscent of the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo. Diallo, a West African immigrant in New York, matched a description of a rapist. Four white officers questioned him, and when the unarmed Diallo started to pull out his wallet, they decided it was a gun and fired forty-one shots. The underlying neurobiology concerns “event-related potentials” (ERPs), which are stimulus-induced changes in electrical activity of the brain (as assessed by EEG—electroencephalography). Threatening faces produce a distinctive change (called the P200 component) in the ERP waveform in under two hundred milliseconds. Among white subjects, viewing someone black evokes a stronger P200 waveform than viewing someone white, regardless of whether the person is armed. Then, a few milliseconds later, a second, inhibitory waveform (the N200 component) appears, originating from the frontal cortex—“Let’s think a sec about what we’re seeing before we shoot.” Viewing a black individual evokes less of an N200 waveform than does seeing someone white. The greater the P200/N200 ratio (i.e., the greater the ratio of I’m-feeling-threatened to Hold-on-a-sec), the greater the likelihood of shooting an unarmed black individual. In another study subjects had to identify fragmented pictures of objects. Priming white subjects with subliminal views of black (but not white) faces made them better at detecting pictures of weapons (but not cameras or books).14

Finally, for the same criminal conviction, the more stereotypically African a black individual’s facial features, the longer the sentence.15 In contrast, juries view black (but not white) male defendants more favorably if they’re wearing big, clunky glasses; some defense attorneys even exploit this “nerd defense” by accessorizing their clients with fake glasses, and prosecuting attorneys ask whether those dorky glasses are real. In other words, when blind, impartial justice is supposedly being administered, jurors are unconsciously biased by racial stereotypes of someone’s face.

This is so depressing—are we hardwired to fear the face of someone of another race, to process their face less as a face, to feel less empathy? No. For starters, there’s tremendous individual variation—not everyone’s amygdala activates in response to an other-race face, and those exceptions are informative. Moreover, subtle manipulations rapidly change the amygdaloid response to the face of an Other. This will be covered in chapter 11.
So yes, babies show racial bias. This isn't hard-coded because different people have different responses, an initial reaction may be very different from a response that takes a longer period of time (the longer period may be less than a second), and it's not the same thing as racism.

The whistleblower is wrong in denying this, and so are the trainers, who are drawing unsupported conclusions.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Melichor on July 27, 2021, 02:06:30 PM
Robert Sapolsky...

A smart guy that understands the way the human mind works.
You would think that a guy like that wouldn't have fell prey to TDS, but he did.

These days our heroes always let us down.

I look at his work these days with a jaundiced eye. How much did social agenda play a part in his science?
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on July 27, 2021, 02:24:51 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder if today the same percentage of SJWs that started this whole mess still agree with what it has turned to, or if maybe some of it became a little too extreme for a majority.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 27, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
I wasn't going to post this because it's not directly related to RPGs, but since the thread has been moved to Pundit's forum, it may help provide some context.

Below is a section on the brain's immediate response to race from Sapolsky's Behave, which is an attempt to synthesize current (2017) understanding of how the human brain functions, from biology through psychology and culture. It draws on all major relevant fields, like neurology, endocrinology, psychology, anthropology, sociology, and so on. This isn't a book about race, it's just comes up a few times as part of how humans think.

Sapolsky is a neurobiologist and primatologist, so he's coming at this from the perspective of biology first and social sciences second. But he does think biology and psychology and culture are inexorably intertwined. He's not deterministic; while the brain has inherent tendencies, he presents a lot of evidence that the specifics can be shaped by environmental factors. He doesn't seem to be particularly woke (I'd guess he's probably a Bill Maher style traditional US liberal).

This section is on the immediate response to stimuli. Seconds or less, not centuries or even minutes. As I mentioned before, the immediate responses to race appear to be real, but the brain operates at multiple levels over multiple time frames. The quote is largely about the amygdala, which is inaccurate but fast. Slower and more socially complex responses can override this, like ones from the pre-frontal cortex, not to mention things like culture.

There's more information on how humans response to race in other sections. Much of the response to race seems to be part of the human tendency to group people into Us and Them; in other words it's a specific manifestation of a much broader classification tool. It's also not necessarily aimed at race in specific; Sapolsky points out that our hunter-gatherer ancestors were unlikely to travel far enough to run into people of other races, so any evolutionary pressure to identify races would be weak or non-existent. But the broader tendency to group people into Us/Them categories is deeply embedded in humans, appearing almost at birth, and is omnipresent in how we think. He is highly skeptical of the broad claimed utility of implicit bias tests. He does reference the Clark doll study, but it's a single paragraph in an 800 page book, mostly focused on the self-hating aspect.

The numbers are footnotes, which I can copy if desired.

Quote from: Behave by Robert Sapolsky
A hugely unsettling sensory cue concerns race.7 Our brains are incredibly attuned to skin color. Flash a face for less than a tenth of a second (one hundred milliseconds), so short a time that people aren’t even sure they’ve seen something. Have them guess the race of the pictured face, and there’s a better-than-even chance of accuracy. We may claim to judge someone by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin. But our brains sure as hell note the color, real fast.

By one hundred milliseconds, brain function already differs in two depressing ways, depending on the race of the face (as shown with neuroimaging). First, in a widely replicated finding, the amygdala activates. Moreover, the more racist someone is in an implicit test of race bias (stay tuned), the more activation there is.8

Similarly, repeatedly show subjects a picture of a face accompanied by a shock; soon, seeing the face alone activates the amygdala.9 As shown by Elizabeth Phelps of NYU, such “fear conditioning” occurs faster for other-race than same-race faces. Amygdalae are prepared to learn to associate something bad with Them. Moreover, people judge neutral other-race faces as angrier than neutral same-race faces.

So if whites see a black face shown at a subliminal speed, the amygdala activates.10 But if the face is shown long enough for conscious processing, the anterior cingulate and the “cognitive” dlPFC then activate and inhibit the amygdala. It’s the frontal cortex exerting executive control over the deeper, darker amygdaloid response.

Second depressing finding: subliminal signaling of race also affects the fusiform face area, the cortical region that specializes in facial recognition.11 Damaging the fusiform, for example, selectively produces “face blindness” (aka prosopagnosia), an inability to recognize faces. Work by John Gabrieli at MIT demonstrates less fusiform activation for other-race faces, with the effect strongest in the most implicitly racist subjects. This isn’t about novelty—show a face with purple skin and the fusiform responds as if it’s same-race. The fusiform isn’t fooled—“That’s not an Other; it’s just a ‘normal’ Photoshopped face.”

In accord with that, white Americans remember white better than black faces; moreover, mixed-race faces are remembered better if described as being of a white rather than a black person. Remarkably, if mixed-race subjects are told they’ve been assigned to one of the two races for the study, they show less fusiform response to faces of the arbitrarily designated “other” race.12

Our attunement to race is shown in another way, too.13 Show a video of someone’s hand being poked with a needle, and subjects have an “isomorphic sensorimotor” response—hands tense in empathy. Among both whites and blacks, the response is blunted for other-race hands; the more the implicit racism, the more blunting. Similarly, among subjects of both races, there’s more activation of the (emotional) medial PFC when considering misfortune befalling a member of their own race than of another race.

This has major implications. In work by Joshua Correll at the University of Colorado, subjects were rapidly shown pictures of people holding either a gun or a cell phone and were told to shoot (only) gun toters. This is painfully reminiscent of the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo. Diallo, a West African immigrant in New York, matched a description of a rapist. Four white officers questioned him, and when the unarmed Diallo started to pull out his wallet, they decided it was a gun and fired forty-one shots. The underlying neurobiology concerns “event-related potentials” (ERPs), which are stimulus-induced changes in electrical activity of the brain (as assessed by EEG—electroencephalography). Threatening faces produce a distinctive change (called the P200 component) in the ERP waveform in under two hundred milliseconds. Among white subjects, viewing someone black evokes a stronger P200 waveform than viewing someone white, regardless of whether the person is armed. Then, a few milliseconds later, a second, inhibitory waveform (the N200 component) appears, originating from the frontal cortex—“Let’s think a sec about what we’re seeing before we shoot.” Viewing a black individual evokes less of an N200 waveform than does seeing someone white. The greater the P200/N200 ratio (i.e., the greater the ratio of I’m-feeling-threatened to Hold-on-a-sec), the greater the likelihood of shooting an unarmed black individual. In another study subjects had to identify fragmented pictures of objects. Priming white subjects with subliminal views of black (but not white) faces made them better at detecting pictures of weapons (but not cameras or books).14

Finally, for the same criminal conviction, the more stereotypically African a black individual’s facial features, the longer the sentence.15 In contrast, juries view black (but not white) male defendants more favorably if they’re wearing big, clunky glasses; some defense attorneys even exploit this “nerd defense” by accessorizing their clients with fake glasses, and prosecuting attorneys ask whether those dorky glasses are real. In other words, when blind, impartial justice is supposedly being administered, jurors are unconsciously biased by racial stereotypes of someone’s face.

This is so depressing—are we hardwired to fear the face of someone of another race, to process their face less as a face, to feel less empathy? No. For starters, there’s tremendous individual variation—not everyone’s amygdala activates in response to an other-race face, and those exceptions are informative. Moreover, subtle manipulations rapidly change the amygdaloid response to the face of an Other. This will be covered in chapter 11.
So yes, babies show racial bias. This isn't hard-coded because different people have different responses, an initial reaction may be very different from a response that takes a longer period of time (the longer period may be less than a second), and it's not the same thing as racism.

The whistleblower is wrong in denying this, and so are the trainers, who are drawing unsupported conclusions.

Yes, I can feel the impartiality oozing through the internet.

How many times does he single out whites? Is there not a similar response from people of other races?

Just by my knowledge of history and interacting with people I would say yes, this is universal.

Only people in my memory I ever heard utter the words "Pinche indio de mierda" (Fucking shit Indian) at a person that looked like a descendant of the Mexican indians was a black cuban woman. And the bitch was really nasty to the poor person attending the check out in the OXXO (kind of a 7-Eleven).

Are you aware thyat in Africa theres racial hatred among different etnicities of black people? Shocking I know.

Are you aware that Chinese people are extremelly racist towards non-chinese even if they are from Asia?

I don't recall the whistle blower saying there's no bias in toddlers, but I do remember the affirmation that toddlers ARE racist.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 02:52:20 PM
Yes, I can feel the impartiality oozing through the internet.

How many times does he single out whites? Is there not a similar response from people of other races?
He's reporting on the studies that are available. Sociology tends to have a W.E.I.R.D. bias -- most studies have traditionally been done on college students, because they're the most readily available group. But those college students are Western, educated, and from industrialized, rich, and democratic countries. And white, for that matter. Which leaves much of the rest of the world much more poorly represented.

Only people in my memory I ever heard utter the words "Pinche indio de mierda" (Fucking shit Indian) at a person that looked like a descendant of the Mexican indians was a black cuban woman. And the bitch was really nasty to the poor person attending the check out in the OXXO (kind of a 7-Eleven).

Are you aware thyat in Africa theres racial hatred among different etnicities of black people? Shocking I know.

Are you aware that Chinese people are extremelly racist towards non-chinese even if they are from Asia?
That's racism, a different and much more complex topic than the one addressed, which is the immediate response to race in the brain.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 27, 2021, 02:57:17 PM
The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

Thanks, RPGPundit. It's interesting to hear that from you. I agree that the Clark doll test was a real thing, and I think people at the time were right to be shocked by it. I think some skepticism is reasonable as about any social science, and I'm hesitant to come to any hard conclusions about the source of the behavior, but it's clear that young black children had negative reactions to dolls that looked like them - which is clearly a bad state of affairs.

A lot of other posters here dismiss it, though, and even pushback against the original civil rights movement, like oggsmash in this post -

   Regarding original civil rights movement, shitloads of commies all over that movement, who were in it for anything but civil rights, but it made a great cloak to wear to see your will done.

To oggsmash - I think the Clarks who created the doll test and people who promoted its conclusions like Thurgood Marshall were indeed in it for civil rights, as were most supporters of the movement.

---

The big question is how much things have changed over the past 70-odd years.

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

I've tried a couple of searches and can't find that study. Do you (or anyone else) have a link? From my search, I see several other attempts to reproduce the Clark doll test recently, but they came to different conclusions. It's quite possible that especially with varying methods and populations that tests will have different results. Pat cites a bunch of more advanced studies that trace neurological function.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 27, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder if today the same percentage of SJWs that started this whole mess still agree with what it has turned to, or if maybe some of it became a little too extreme for a majority.

I think starting is too big a thing to pin on any person. I do know that people have been walking away from the SJW cause because somewhere along the line, they hit some cognitive dissonance with what the movement claims to represent, and what it actually does. People like Keri Smith of Unsafe Space, and the whole #walkaway movement, or Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 03:34:34 PM
The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

Thanks, RPGPundit. It's interesting to hear that from you. I agree that the Clark doll test was a real thing, and I think people at the time were right to be shocked by it. I think some skepticism is reasonable as about any social science, and I'm hesitant to come to any hard conclusions about the source of the behavior, but it's clear that young black children had negative reactions to dolls that looked like them - which is clearly a bad state of affairs.
There are some methodological criticisms of the Clark study. One is that there were no commercially available black dolls at the time, so the black dolls used in the study were painted white dolls. The lack of appropriate features, apparent fakeness of the paint, and so on could have influenced the results.

Though the the study has been replicated quite a few times, and it seems to be generally considered valid.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Zelen on July 27, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
As a general rule Humans generally have demonstrated a preference for lighter skin (particularly in women), and this effect is true regardless of whether it's an African in European/American society or an African in African society or a European in European society, etc. It's misleading at best, outright lying and propaganda to suggest that preference for a lighter skinned doll represents some kind of programming toward self-hatred.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 27, 2021, 04:08:22 PM
Yes, I can feel the impartiality oozing through the internet.

How many times does he single out whites? Is there not a similar response from people of other races?

He's reporting on the studies that are available. Sociology tends to have a W.E.I.R.D. bias -- most studies have traditionally been done on college students, because they're the most readily available group. But those college students are Western, educated, and from industrialized, rich, and democratic countries. And white, for that matter. Which leaves much of the rest of the world much more poorly represented.

IF I were doing a study about that topic, in the west, I would take care of getting a representative sample of ALL the races present in the country, AND if only one was big enough for that then I would find said representative sample elsewhere, maybe even do a longitudinal study accross several different countries?

But then again I would want the study to hold to scrutiny and not to confirm MY biases.

Only people in my memory I ever heard utter the words "Pinche indio de mierda" (Fucking shit Indian) at a person that looked like a descendant of the Mexican indians was a black cuban woman. And the bitch was really nasty to the poor person attending the check out in the OXXO (kind of a 7-Eleven).

Are you aware thyat in Africa theres racial hatred among different etnicities of black people? Shocking I know.

Are you aware that Chinese people are extremelly racist towards non-chinese even if they are from Asia?
That's racism, a different and much more complex topic than the one addressed, which is the immediate response to race in the brain.

Yep, that's racism, and the scum hired by Hasbro were pushing and conflating bias with racism and adjudicating it to only one race.

As a reminder, I'm a mongrel, descendant of Spaniards and Maya in my immediate family. Too white for the progresives and not white enough for the white supremacists.

Your "impartial" scientist seems to me as very partial, so much so that he made no effort to get samples from other races, heavily biased against whites. And he makes several times judgments of morality in his findings.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: GeekyBugle on July 27, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

Thanks, RPGPundit. It's interesting to hear that from you. I agree that the Clark doll test was a real thing, and I think people at the time were right to be shocked by it. I think some skepticism is reasonable as about any social science, and I'm hesitant to come to any hard conclusions about the source of the behavior, but it's clear that young black children had negative reactions to dolls that looked like them - which is clearly a bad state of affairs.

Something being a real thing and the conclusions someone got from that thing being accurate are two very different things.

As it has been pointed to you several times be me and others it had a ridiculously small sample size, was NOT conducted on toddlers and there could be other alternative causes for the behaviour of the children towards the black dolls, for instance parental abuse off the child. I know you think black people and especially black women are saints that would never misstreat their children but the evidence goes against your religious dogma.

A lot of other posters here dismiss it, though, and even pushback against the original civil rights movement, like oggsmash in this post -

   Regarding original civil rights movement, shitloads of commies all over that movement, who were in it for anything but civil rights, but it made a great cloak to wear to see your will done.

To oggsmash - I think the Clarks who created the doll test and people who promoted its conclusions like Thurgood Marshall were indeed in it for civil rights, as were most supporters of the movement.

LOL, pointing out there were lots of commie scum in the civil righst movement now is the same as dismissing it? From people that would like to preserve MLK's way of doing things?

You'll need a better strawman than that one.

---
The big question is how much things have changed over the past 70-odd years.

Let me guess, you think things are worst now than then and that those demanding segregation (racial and sexual segregation), are the good guys and have the right answer?

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

I've tried a couple of searches and can't find that study. Do you (or anyone else) have a link? From my search, I see several other attempts to reproduce the Clark doll test recently, but they came to different conclusions. It's quite possible that especially with varying methods and populations that tests will have different results. Pat cites a bunch of more advanced studies that trace neurological function.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 05:49:02 PM
Your "impartial" scientist seems to me as very partial, so much so that he made no effort to get samples from other races, heavily biased against whites. And he makes several times judgments of morality in his findings.
His book is a summary of the current state of the science on the human mind. He's not the author of those studies, and it would be silly to expect him to conduct his own study, especially since it's a minor tangent in his book.

If you're referring to the comments like "depressing", that's the only place in the entire 800 page book where anything like that shows up. I'm assuming it's token racism-bad-m'kay virtue signalling so he doesn't get attacked from wrongthink, because I see similar statements in other books by academics that happen to brush up against hot button social issues like racism or sexism. But you'll notice the entire section is about tangible, reproducible results, and the conclusions he comes to are not in line with what the critical race theorists are saying -- he's pointing out it's not inherent, and it's not universal. He also rejects the idea that implicit bias tests are a good measure of someone's overall racism, which again is counter to the narrative, which holds them up as one of the key pieces of evidence in favor of systemic racism. If he were woke, everything in the book would be loaded with value judgments, and the parts on race would fit the narrative. Instead, as I mentioned, he seems like an old school American liberal. He's got a hippy bias.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 05:58:52 PM
The numbers are footnotes, which I can copy if desired.
Desired or not, here they are.

Quote from: Behave by Robert Sapolsky
7. An excellent review on the subject: J. Kubota et al. “The Neuroscience of Race,” Nat Nsci 15 (2012): 940; for a good review of the entire subject, see: D. Ariely, Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions (New York HarperCollins, 2008).

8. T. Ito and G. J. Urland, “Race and Gender on the Brain: Electrocortical Measures of Attention to the Race and Gender of Multiply Categorizable Individuals,” JPSP 85 (2003): 616. For a good review of how implicit attitudes are studied, see B. Nosek et al., “Implicit Social Cognition: From Measures to Mechanisms,” TICS 15 (2011): 152.

9. A. Olsson et al., “The Role of Social Groups in the Persistence of Learned Fear,” Sci 309 (2005): 785.

10. J. Richeson et al., “An fMRI Investigation of the Impact of Interracial Contact on Executive Function,” Nat Nsci 6 (2003): 1323; K. Knutson et al., “Why Do Interracial Interactions Impair Executive Function? A Resource Depletion Account,” TICS 10 (2007): 915; K. Knutson et al., “Neural Correlates of Automatic Beliefs About Gender and Race,” Human Brain Mapping 28 (2007): 915.

11. N. Kanwisher et al., “The Fusiform Face Area: A Module in Human Extrastriate Cortex Specialized for Face Perception,” J Nsci 17 (1997): 4302; J. Sergent et al., “Functional Neuroanatomy of Face and Object Processing: A Positron Emission Tomography Study,” Brain 115 (1992): 15; A. Golby et al., “Differential Responses in the Fusiform Region to Same-Race and Other-Race Faces,” Nat Nsci 4 (2001): 845; A. J. Hart et al., “Differential Response in the Human Amygdala to Racial Outgroup Versus Ingroup Face Stimuli,” Neuroreport 11 (2000): 2351.

12. K. Shutts and K. Kinzler, “An Ambiguous-Race Illusion in Children’s Face Memory,” Psych Sci 18 (2007): 763; D. Maner et al., “Functional Projection: How Fundamental Social Motives Can Bias Interpersonal Perception,” JPSP 88 (2005): 63; K. Hugenberg and G. Bodenhausen, “Facing Prejudice: Implicit Prejudice and the Perception of Facial Threat,” Psych Sci (2003): 640; J. Van Bavel et al., “The Neural Substrates of In-group Bias: A Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging Investigation,” Psych Sci 19 (2008): 1131; J. Van Bavel and W. Cunningham, “Self-Categorization with a Novel Mixed-Race Group Moderates Automatic Social and Racial Biases,” PSPB 35 (2009): 321.

13. A. Avenanti et al., “Racial Bias Reduces Empathic Sensorimotor Resonance with Other-Race Pain,” Curr Biol 20 (2010): 1018; V. Mathur et al., “Neural Basis of Extraordinary Empathy and Altruistic Motivation,” Neuroimage 51 (2010): 1468–75.

14. J. Correll et al., “Event-Related Potentials and the Decision to Shoot: The Role of Threat Perception and Cognitive Control,” JESP 42 (2006): 120.

15. J. Eberhardt et al., “See Black: Race, Crime, and Visual Processing,” JPSP 87 (2004): 876; I. Blair et al., “The Influence of Afrocentric Facial Features in Criminal Sentencing,” Psych Sci 15 (2004): 674; M. Brown et al., “The Effects of Eyeglasses and Race on Juror Decisions Involving a Violent Crime,” AMFP 26 (2008): 25.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Zelen on July 27, 2021, 06:32:54 PM
Implicit Association Tests are a booming field of study for pseudoscientists that want to conjure all kinds of malevolent intentions up from ... how fast someone clicked one picture or another.

In reality IAT is unreliable and basically can't be demonstrated to mean even a fraction of what people use it to mean. If I react more quickly to a black figure than a white figure, is that because of implicit bias, or is it because the human eye (almost definitionally) detects high contrast images more quickly than low contrast? Or the converse, that if I react more quickly to a white face than a black face, might that be due to contrast and readability of facial characteristics? There's basically a million and one ways to split these data sets down that aren't even explored, because the most important thing is always to push that racism agenda, get those big funding dollars, market that shoddy research as training for corporate clients.

Quote from: Ha Nguyen (http://www.hcdi.net/reliability-and-validity-of-implicit-association-test/)
In psychology, a measure is considered reliable if it has a test-retest reliability of at least 0.7, although it is preferred to be over 0.8. Studies have found that racial bias IAT studies have a test-retest reliability score of only 0.44, while the IAT overall is just around 0.5. The second major concern with IAT is its validity. Validity is best established by showing that results from the test can accurately predict behaviors in real life. However, from 2009 to 2015, four separate meta-analyses came out all suggesting that the IAT is a weak predictor of discriminating behavior (Goldhill, 2017).
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 27, 2021, 07:09:35 PM
It's amazing probably predictable how fast the IAT caught on as some kind of HR tool.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/7/14637626/implicit-association-test-racism
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 27, 2021, 07:17:50 PM
Implicit Association Tests are a booming field of study for pseudoscientists that want to conjure all kinds of malevolent intentions up from ... how fast someone clicked one picture or another.

In reality IAT is unreliable and basically can't be demonstrated to mean even a fraction of what people use it to mean. If I react more quickly to a black figure than a white figure, is that because of implicit bias, or is it because the human eye (almost definitionally) detects high contrast images more quickly than low contrast? Or the converse, that if I react more quickly to a white face than a black face, might that be due to contrast and readability of facial characteristics? There's basically a million and one ways to split these data sets down that aren't even explored, because the most important thing is always to push that racism agenda, get those big funding dollars, market that shoddy research as training for corporate clients.

Quote from: Ha Nguyen (http://www.hcdi.net/reliability-and-validity-of-implicit-association-test/)
In psychology, a measure is considered reliable if it has a test-retest reliability of at least 0.7, although it is preferred to be over 0.8. Studies have found that racial bias IAT studies have a test-retest reliability score of only 0.44, while the IAT overall is just around 0.5. The second major concern with IAT is its validity. Validity is best established by showing that results from the test can accurately predict behaviors in real life. However, from 2009 to 2015, four separate meta-analyses came out all suggesting that the IAT is a weak predictor of discriminating behavior (Goldhill, 2017).

From Pat's description of Sapolsky, he is similarly skeptical of IATs. However, his tests use neurological signals in addition to reaction time, which gives greater detail on the mental activity going on. From the Sapolsky quote:

Quote
subliminal signaling of race also affects the fusiform face area, the cortical region that specializes in facial recognition.11 Damaging the fusiform, for example, selectively produces “face blindness” (aka prosopagnosia), an inability to recognize faces. Work by John Gabrieli at MIT demonstrates less fusiform activation for other-race faces, with the effect strongest in the most implicitly racist subjects. This isn’t about novelty—show a face with purple skin and the fusiform responds as if it’s same-race. The fusiform isn’t fooled—“That’s not an Other; it’s just a ‘normal’ Photoshopped face.”

So they did investigate whether it was just contrast.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Zelen on July 27, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
So they did investigate whether it was just contrast.

I'm well aware there are certain people who actually do study these types of things with a more critical eye. My criticism isn't targeted at Sapolsky but toward the broader field of academics and charlatans using IAT and not bothering trying to challenge their own assumptions. Heck, most of the time they aren't even qualified to parse their own data due to general statistics innumeracy among the "social science" crowd.

I wasn't able to find a funnel plot specifically for IAT publication bias, but I suspect that a plot for IAT power would look similar to this plot done for another commonly-abused topic, Stereotype Threat.
(https://russellwarne.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Picho-Kiroga-et-al-2021-Figure-2-1024x783.jpg)
(Ref: https://russellwarne.com/2021/02/17/the-gremlins-that-strengthen-stereotype-threat/)

Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 27, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
From Pat's description of Sapolsky, he is similarly skeptical of IATs. However, his tests use neurological signals in addition to reaction time, which gives greater detail on the mental activity going on.
Not "his" tests. Sapolsky's book is a survey of contemporary understanding, not original research.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: RPGPundit on July 28, 2021, 02:13:52 AM

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

I've tried a couple of searches and can't find that study. Do you (or anyone else) have a link? From my search, I see several other attempts to reproduce the Clark doll test recently, but they came to different conclusions. It's quite possible that especially with varying methods and populations that tests will have different results. Pat cites a bunch of more advanced studies that trace neurological function.

As I said, I believe it was at least a couple of years ago. And I read so much on a daily basis that I'd have no idea where to find it. But I remember that at the time it certainly made the rounds of some of the cultural libertarian commentators (I'm sure I remember Sargon talking about it, for example), so maybe someone with more time or better memory than me might be able to find it.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 28, 2021, 04:42:37 PM
As a general position statement here, the basic issue is that the Conscious Kid captured video contained statements like "children as young as two are already using race to reason about people's behaviors". Johnson and Project Veritas claim that this is ridiculous, and that it is wokist and racist lies.

I haven't read the research to say whether or not it is true. I knew about the Clark doll test which was on children from 3 to 6, so it seemed at least possible to me that children at age two could use race to reason about behaviors. I haven't read material on earlier ages like the Sapolsky book Pat is referencing, but that apparently agrees with the training on this point.

I'm not endorsing either the training or Johnson in general. But I think on this point, the training seems right and Johnson is wrong. Johnson and Project Veritas seem to be pushing that young kids naturally don't see race, so parents don't need to do anything and their kids will naturally grow up with no racism. I think that isn't true. I think a stronger point could be made arguing about *how* to teach children about race, rather than *whether* to teach children about race.

From Pat's description of Sapolsky, he is similarly skeptical of IATs. However, his tests use neurological signals in addition to reaction time, which gives greater detail on the mental activity going on.
Not "his" tests. Sapolsky's book is a survey of contemporary understanding, not original research.

Sorry, Pat. You had said that, and I knew it at one point but slipped up.


So they did investigate whether it was just contrast.

I'm well aware there are certain people who actually do study these types of things with a more critical eye. My criticism isn't targeted at Sapolsky but toward the broader field of academics and charlatans using IAT and not bothering trying to challenge their own assumptions. Heck, most of the time they aren't even qualified to parse their own data due to general statistics innumeracy among the "social science" crowd.

I wasn't able to find a funnel plot specifically for IAT publication bias, but I suspect that a plot for IAT power would look similar to this plot done for another commonly-abused topic, Stereotype Threat.
(Ref: https://russellwarne.com/2021/02/17/the-gremlins-that-strengthen-stereotype-threat/)

I generally agree here. I've had a fairly in-depth look into this, since I first got a PhD in physics - and later got a Master's in Education. Statistics handling in education was awful compared to physics, which isn't at all surprising. The sort of people who are talented in education tend to have worse math skills than physicists. Two things I would add:

(1) From my reading, statistical handling in education used to be even worse. There was a push in the 1990s to firm up data handling with pre and post tests. In earlier times, education was even more driven by unproven trends, like the often-mocked "New Math" of the 1960s.

(2) Publication bias happens in nearly all scientific fields to at least some degree. It's not a function of innumeracy per se, but comes from a higher-level pressure against publishing negative results because they don't seem significant. I saw it regularly in nuclear and heavy ion results, for example, and less so in high-energy physics (though it still happened). I had a roommate whose physics PhD I considered nearly complete crap because of statistical handling.

The point being - I take psychology and social sciences especially with a big grain of salt -- but I am even more skeptical about random people making assertions about those fields.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: jhkim on July 28, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
As a general rule Humans generally have demonstrated a preference for lighter skin (particularly in women), and this effect is true regardless of whether it's an African in European/American society or an African in African society or a European in European society, etc. It's misleading at best, outright lying and propaganda to suggest that preference for a lighter skinned doll represents some kind of programming toward self-hatred.

I've heard this expressed as an idea before, but I'm skeptical. What is the extent of the evidence for this? Another idea I've heard expressed is that women tend to prefer men to be dark, while men prefer women to be light. The implication is that this is a genetically-programmed universal, but that is quite difficult to prove.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: oggsmash on July 28, 2021, 04:58:55 PM
The Clark doll test was a real thing, and of course demonstrated that the dominant culture at the time had created an unconscious bias in black children to have negative feelings about their own in-group.

Thanks, RPGPundit. It's interesting to hear that from you. I agree that the Clark doll test was a real thing, and I think people at the time were right to be shocked by it. I think some skepticism is reasonable as about any social science, and I'm hesitant to come to any hard conclusions about the source of the behavior, but it's clear that young black children had negative reactions to dolls that looked like them - which is clearly a bad state of affairs.

A lot of other posters here dismiss it, though, and even pushback against the original civil rights movement, like oggsmash in this post -

   Regarding original civil rights movement, shitloads of commies all over that movement, who were in it for anything but civil rights, but it made a great cloak to wear to see your will done.

To oggsmash - I think the Clarks who created the doll test and people who promoted its conclusions like Thurgood Marshall were indeed in it for civil rights, as were most supporters of the movement.

---

The big question is how much things have changed over the past 70-odd years.

Well, there was a large study of different ethnic groups a couple of years ago, I believe it was in the UK though I might be remembering wrong, which found that all races have a majority positive bias toward their own ethnicity, with one single exception: non-latino white people. White people are the only group that have a slight majority NEGATIVE view of their own in-group, that is to say, the only group that says "white people are bad".

I've tried a couple of searches and can't find that study. Do you (or anyone else) have a link? From my search, I see several other attempts to reproduce the Clark doll test recently, but they came to different conclusions. It's quite possible that especially with varying methods and populations that tests will have different results. Pat cites a bunch of more advanced studies that trace neurological function.

   Think what ever you want.  but here we are with corporate training telling white dudes they suck and telling everyone else babies are racist.  If you think that sort of shit will have a happy ending you are in for a nasty balkanized surprise.  It does not matter how many people were in the civil rights movement for the good of it, it still got infiltrated and is now weaponized by nasty shits, who quite honestly I would strangle if I were around them. 

   You also are putting words in my mouth.  I am not pushing back against the original civil rights movement, I said it was full of commies who had ulterior motives and it was.

  I will also say, I do not rule out the kids in the 60's were biased against their own because they were small minorities in society.  I do not think that is going to get fixed today by "getting them back" as many proponents of the sort of training the guy was complaining about.  They may even have had the bias because of overwhelming racism, again it was 60 years ago.  Someone who comes to me, who is white and came up a bit rough as they say, to feel even a touch of remorse for things I had no hand in and zero benefit from....get fucked.
Title: Re: Hasbro CRT Whistleblower and WoTC Wokism Exposed!
Post by: Pat on July 28, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
As a general position statement here, the basic issue is that the Conscious Kid captured video contained statements like "children as young as two are already using race to reason about people's behaviors". Johnson and Project Veritas claim that this is ridiculous, and that it is wokist and racist lies.

I haven't read the research to say whether or not it is true. I knew about the Clark doll test which was on children from 3 to 6, so it seemed at least possible to me that children at age two could use race to reason about behaviors. I haven't read material on earlier ages like the Sapolsky book Pat is referencing, but that apparently agrees with the training on this point.

I'm not endorsing either the training or Johnson in general. But I think on this point, the training seems right and Johnson is wrong. Johnson and Project Veritas seem to be pushing that young kids naturally don't see race, so parents don't need to do anything and their kids will naturally grow up with no racism. I think that isn't true. I think a stronger point could be made arguing about *how* to teach children about race, rather than *whether* to teach children about race.
I think you have a backwards. Johnson and Project Veritas are fundamentally in the right, and the Conscious Kid trainers are fundamentally in the wrong.

But -- and this is a very important but -- I don't think Johnson and PV effectively made their case. That's my essential problem with the video. In the first half of the video, they're ridiculing even the concept that toddlers could display bias. They're wrong about that, because the studies are clear that children of very young ages do show bias. There's a more complex question about whether that bias can be considered racism, but they don't really address that, they're too busy just dismissing the concept. So they're technically wrong, but more importantly they're missing the real target.

The real target is the stuff that appears in the second half of the video. We can see slides and brief snippets of lectures, which seem to be loaded with quasi-familiar jargon and strong conclusions. It's hard to be specific because PV/Johnson don't focus on them enough or provide a good analysis, but those snippets seem to be drawing unwarranted conclusions (like taking the fact that babies show bias to conclude, without all the interim justifications needed to support such a conclusion, that babies are racist and this needs to be addressed by doing X, Y, and Z). So they're technically right on some very specific supporting details, but the entire edifice they build on those details is false.

A good whistleblower video would have acknowledged the trainers were correct about certain specifics, but pointed out exactly how those details are being twisted to support a narrative.