Quote from: Morlock;1120208First, a scale of hard sci-fi:

http://www.kheper.net/topics/scifi/grading.html

Interesting.

Quote from: Morlock;1120208Generally speaking, everything I want to do falls into the "Very Hard SF" or harder categories. No FTL travel, no warp bubbles, no time travel, no wormhole travel (sure, wormholes might be a real thing, but you almost certainly wouldn't want to enter one), no teleportation, no handwavium, no cloaking devices (you can't hide life support systems or engines in space), no icy doom when spaced without a suit (you die from no air and no pressure, not by freezing), etc., etc., etc.

Are you looking for sample rules or sample settings?

You can use almost any SciFi rulesets and ignore those rules that you don't want. So, if a game has FTL travel, just ignore those rules and don't have it. Traveller has a setting where FTL travel is embedded in its DNA, but you could ignore that and it works as a good set of SciFi rules.

Settings are good for ideas, but with your preferences, anything that has multiple Solar systems wouldn't work, which excludes most settings.

Quote from: Morlock;1120208Just looking for any kind of advice, info, links, etc., you want to give. I'm probably going to roll my own system, but I'm still open to reviewing good medium-crunch stuff; even if I won't use it wholesale, I'll pillage it for systems and ideas. I was looking at Savage Worlds, until I realized that SW isn't OGL; for some reason I'd rather roll my own than use a generic system that isn't OGL.

Really, you can use any rule system for SciFi. You just have to adapt it to include what you want.

You just change equipment and weapons to do SciFi-style damage and effects. So, a Blaster is like a pistol but with more charges, for example. For equipment, you just say what you want something to do and decide whether that is reasonable for your setting. So, a comms device that allows you to have a video call with a number of people as well as show schematics of the ship you are in? Sure, why not? A device that has the schematics of all the known ship types in the palm of your hand? Yes, that is a smart phone with lots of PDFs. A device that allows you to control a ship remotely or diagnose faults? Again, just a smart phone.

Quote from: Morlock;1120208I'm especially interested in tools for building space habitats, star systems, planets, ecologies, societies, critters, etc.

Stars Without Number has excellent tables that can be used to generate all kinds of things.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1120693I don't get why "egocasting" is not considered hard sci-fi by some people.

My gut is guessing that the reason is bullshit and has little to do with science.

I think what you're getting at is some people may object on the grounds of mind-body dualism, i.e. some kind of "soul". And you're right, that would have little to do with science.

I concede it doesn't require fundamentally new physics (as I understand it). However, when you are talking about being able to model the structure and function of trillions of molecules, plus all their potential interactions, it busts my suspension of disbelief. That's before you get into the philosophical issues.

Quote from: jeff37923;1120702I just can't get over their BEMness, I guess.

I can certainly understand that. The races in Star Frontiers are bugtaurs, ameobas with eyespots, sneks, and flying monkeys; and they all act like humans with one exaggerated characteristic. So no matter how we try to justify their biology, they're still humans with bumpy foreheads, except the special effects are done in the theatre of the mind (aided by cheap line art), so they can mimic pulp aliens.

Quote from: Marchand;1120749I think what you're getting at is some people may object on the grounds of mind-body dualism, i.e. some kind of "soul". And you're right, that would have little to do with science.

I concede it doesn't require fundamentally new physics (as I understand it). However, when you are talking about being able to model the structure and function of trillions of molecules, plus all their potential interactions, it busts my suspension of disbelief. That's before you get into the philosophical issues.

Fair, but the premise of games like Nova Praxis, Eclipse Phase, or Transhuman Space is far far future tech.

It lines up with assumption.

I didn't see it mentioned, but High Colonies is on kickstarter, and its tagline is that it is hard sci-fi.

Quote from: Morlock;1120208Generally speaking, everything I want to do falls into the "Very Hard SF" or harder categories. [...] I was looking at Savage Worlds

You may need to rethink this approach.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1120784You may need to rethink this approach.

There no reason you can't use a cinematic action-based ruleset to run a hard science setting. It won't give edgy/gritty stories, but that's not a requirement of hard sci-fi even if it is fairly common to put the two together.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1120785There no reason you can't use a cinematic action-based ruleset to run a hard science setting. It won't give edgy/gritty stories, but that's not a requirement of hard sci-fi even if it is fairly common to put the two together.

What, do you think an RPG with an intuitive magic system (science) about regular humans doesn't need tons and tons of simulationist rules to be immersive with consistent rulings? /s

Well, if you want the game to largely feature hard sci fi situations as an element you can engage effectively as hard sci fi situations, as opposed to, say... abstract dice mechanics that aren't about modeling the details of that situation...

Quote from: Skarg;1120791Well, if you want the game to largely feature hard sci fi situations as an element you can engage effectively as hard sci fi situations, as opposed to, say... abstract dice mechanics that aren't about modeling the details of that situation...

Right, but Savage Worlds is a traditional RPG.

It's not like they were going to use FATE or PbtA for a hard Sci-fi campaign.

I see no reason you couldn't use OSR philosophy to run a hard Sci-fi campaign well.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1120813Right, but Savage Worlds is a traditional RPG.

Is it? I had the impression it's mainly about dice mechanics. Does it also have literal representations of things in the game situation, so play can revolve around those rather than abstractions?

Quote from: Skarg;1120820Is it? I had the impression it's mainly about dice mechanics. Does it also have literal representations of things in the game situation, so play can revolve around those rather than abstractions?

What do you mean by that? Seriously.

SW is about characters using skills to accomplish things by rolling dice to hit a target number. It has a metacurrency mechanic (Bennies) but they often are just bonuses to a roll not a narrative control. SW also uses cards for initiative, and while it is an odd thing to use both dice and cards, that still doesn't make it anything other than a traditional RPG.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1120832What do you mean by that? Seriously.

SW is about characters using skills to accomplish things by rolling dice to hit a target number. It has a metacurrency mechanic (Bennies) but they often are just bonuses to a roll not a narrative control. SW also uses cards for initiative, and while it is an odd thing to use both dice and cards, that still doesn't make it anything other than a traditional RPG.

Well, I mean if the game situation, is, say one or more PCs are in a space ship, and they are under attack by another space ship, I would expect the gameplay to be about where each ship is, what its information systems, movement abilities, weapons and defenses are like, as well as the crew using their skills and making choices about what to do. If it's "hard sci-fi", then I think the mass and thrust of the ships will matter, the ship equipment game stats will be based on what they're supposed to be and so on. Something like the Classic Traveller ship combat system, or GURPS Spaceships.

So dice to get target numbers (or maybe cards, depending on how they work), and possibly even "Bennies" might fit that, but what determines what you roll, when and how often? Are the ships' positions, systems, and movement and damage states part of play, or are they all just abstracted into dice modifiers?

Quote from: Skarg;1120863Well, I mean if the game situation, is, say one or more PCs are in a space ship, and they are under attack by another space ship, I would expect the gameplay to be about where each ship is, what its information systems, movement abilities, weapons and defenses are like, as well as the crew using their skills and making choices about what to do. If it's "hard sci-fi", then I think the mass and thrust of the ships will matter, the ship equipment game stats will be based on what they're supposed to be and so on. Something like the Classic Traveller ship combat system, or GURPS Spaceships.

So dice to get target numbers (or maybe cards, depending on how they work), and possibly even "Bennies" might fit that, but what determines what you roll, when and how often? Are the ships' positions, systems, and movement and damage states part of play, or are they all just abstracted into dice modifiers?

A hard sci-fi setting doesn't necessarily mean the game mechanics have to account for players knowing the in-depth physics of their characters flying a scientifically possible spaceship anymore than a modern day 'hard reality' setting requires players to know ballistics when their characters fire guns. In both cases, it's abstracted by the skill roll. Ship systems are likewise abstracted--a maneuverability/handling rating is far more useful to 99% of players than mass & acceleration equations.

The mechanics don't have to be super-detailed or equation-like, but I'd say the more they involve (or at least are based on) facts and concepts that are based in something that might be considered "hard sci fi", the "harder" they are.

I'm not saying the system can't boil effects of situations down to easily playable numbers.

But what's involved in decisions and the chances of certain outcomes? Is it going to take things like range, velocity, ship and weapon capabilities, such that the decisions are about the situation and can be reasoned about in logical ways? Or are decisions and calculations going to be about thinking about what die rolls you need to make, and whatever "Bennies" are? What would those numbers and the "Bennies" be based on, and can players interact with them in ways that are about the logic of the game situation, or is it mainly about playing the same generic abstract dice/cards game system that'd be used in any other situation, and the details of the situation are just what players are supposed to imagine the dice/cards/Bennies represent?