Stars without Number has a default setting that would not qualify as hard sci-fi but is full of tables and tools for building any type of sci-fi setting.  I'd highly recommend it for that reason even if you never plan to use the default setting or mechanics.  All Crawford's games are like this.  I use them to build settings of my own.

Gurps can do hard SF. Especially if you have some of the expansions.

Oddly enough the original BESM could handle it as well since its like GURPs and is a toolkit.

And if you can ignore the horror factor. Look up End Times for Call of Cthulhu. That is a hard fiction setting based on a struggling Mars colony. You could do whole sessions revolving around the mundane problems alone. I was a playtester for it wayyyyyy back.

Eclipse Phase requires their wormholes to exist because of that is how the TITANS left, if wormhole tech invented by post singularity AI is acceptable, then you are fine.

Nova Praxis gets called hard Sci-fi, but unlike in Eclipse Phase, people really do not understand why technology works anymore. A super AI invented a bunch of stuff and then turned off. This works great to keep technology more stagnant so your setting does not need rapid technological developments every year to make sense, but it veer's away from what you want in terms of scientific explanations for everything. The wormholes in this setting can be removed.

Psionics are a big part of the Stars Without Number canon, but that system is designed for maximum selectability, as in you can cut out what you do not want.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1120420Eclipse Phase requires their wormholes to exist because of that is how the TITANS left, if wormhole tech invented by post singularity AI is acceptable, then you are fine.

You also have tech that allows copying and transferring of "ego" to allow serial immortality. That's not exactly hard science, and neither are the psi-powers of the setting. Oh, and biological whale-like organisms (that can be PC bodies) designed to fly through the corona of the sun... yeah, not hard sci-fi.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1120428You also have tech that allows copying and transferring of "ego" to allow serial immortality. That's not exactly hard science, and neither are the psi-powers of the setting. Oh, and biological whale-like organisms (that can be PC bodies) designed to fly through the corona of the sun... yeah, not hard sci-fi.

Oh yeah the psionics.

Nova Praxis avoids it, so in my head Eclipse Phase must too because all the other super sci-fi tech should be interesting enough without adding space-magic right?

(IMO Nova Praxis is the better series, and I strongly disagree that "ego" transferring isn't hard sci-fi. If the mind is a scientific construct, then it can be simulated and replicated with advanced enough technology).

Quote from: HappyDaze;1120428You also have tech that allows copying and transferring of "ego" to allow serial immortality. That's not exactly hard science, and neither are the psi-powers of the setting. Oh, and biological whale-like organisms (that can be PC bodies) designed to fly through the corona of the sun... yeah, not hard sci-fi.

If you are going that way with Hard Sci-Fi biological sciences, then Star Frontiers is out because of extra large sentient insects (Vrusk) and extra large sentient single celled organisms (Dralasites).

EDIT: I have a personal bias against Stars Without Number because combat and character generation is based on D&D hit points and levels, so Actual Play doesn't feel like a unique game as much as it feels like D&D In Spaaaaace!

Quote from: jeff37923;1120433If you are going that way with Hard Sci-Fi biological sciences, then Star Frontiers is out because of extra large sentient insects (Vrusk) and extra large sentient single celled organisms (Dralasites).

Except the vrusk arent terrestrial bugs and have an internal skeleton. And the dralasites are not single cell organisms.

Try again please.

Quote from: jeff37923;1120433EDIT: I have a personal bias against Stars Without Number because combat and character generation is based on D&D hit points and levels, so Actual Play doesn't feel like a unique game as much as it feels like D&D In Spaaaaace!

Huh for me games like Stars Without Number, Silent Legions, Godbound, and Golgotha helped me separate d20, levels, and hit points from D&D and instead see it as just a really robust core for lighter rule systems.

Quote from: Omega;1120443Except the vrusk arent terrestrial bugs and have an internal skeleton. And the dralasites are not single cell organisms.

Try again please.

'Vrusk are sometimes called "bugs".' 'They look like large insects'

'The internal structure of a Dralasite is very different from the other races. The Dralasite's central nerve bundle (brain), numerous small hearts and other internal organs float in a pudding-like mixture of protein and organic fluids. Dralasites breathe by absorbing oxygen directly through their skin, so they have no lungs. They are omnivores, but eat by surrounding their food and absorbing it, so they also have no digestive tract or intestines.'

Sounds like insects and single celled organisms to me.

They're more like a large slime mold with a thick outer coating.

Quote from: OmegaExcept the vrusk arent terrestrial bugs and have an internal skeleton. And the dralasites are not single cell organisms.

Try again please.

Quote from: jeff37923;1120460Sounds like insects and single celled organisms to me.

Omega is technically correct. Vrusk do have an internal skeleton, and Dralasites are definitely multi-cellular.

However, in general, Star Frontiers is definitely not hard sci-fi. It's mostly space opera, with FTL, artificial gravity, force-fields, tractor beams, ray guns, and outlandish creatures. Dralasites are not single-celled, but there's no explanation for how they can absorb enough oxygen for activity without lungs.

Quote from: jhkim;1120472Omega is technically correct. Vrusk do have an internal skeleton, and Dralasites are definitely multi-cellular.

Vrusk

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4111[/ATTACH]

Dralasite

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4112[/ATTACH]


Looks like insects and single celled organisms to me.

Quote from: jeff37923;1120592Looks like insects and single celled organisms to me.

I think we're all agreed that Vrusk look similar to insects. However, the Vrusk diagram that you quote shows at least part of the internal skeleton -- there's a ribcage showing at the base of the torso. According to their description, they have numerous differences from insects -- like having an internal skeleton, and having lungs. Here's a quote:

QuoteA Vrusk's body is covered by a carapace (hard shell). This shell is jointed at the Vrusk's elbows, hips, knees, etc. The carapace protects the Vrusk from bruises, cuts, scratches and other minor injuries. Unlike insects, Vrusk have an internal skeleton to support their bodies. Young Vrusk have a blue carapace with bright orange near the joints. As the Vrusk gets older, its carapace changes to dull green with yellow joints.

Vrusk have large eyes that are protected by a hard, clear covering. The mouth is surrounded by four eating mandibles. The two larger mandibles hold food while the small ones tear it apart and place it in the mouth. They are omnivores. Vrusk have lungs, and breathe through many small nostrils under their abdomens. This arrangement makes it difficult for Vrusk to swim.

Source: https://starfrontiers.fandom.com/wiki/Vrusk

The Vrusk, at least, have plausible biology. They might look similar to insects and share some external characteristics, but by their description, they're more like armadillos.

Dralasites don't work, however. There's no explanation of how they can get enough oxygen for respiration, or how their muscles can operate without a skeleton.

Quote from: jhkim;1120601I think we're all agreed that Vrusk look similar to insects. However, the Vrusk diagram that you quote shows at least part of the internal skeleton -- there's a ribcage showing at the base of the torso. According to their description, they have numerous differences from insects -- like having an internal skeleton, and having lungs. Here's a quote:


Source: https://starfrontiers.fandom.com/wiki/Vrusk

The Vrusk, at least, have plausible biology. They might look similar to insects and share some external characteristics, but by their description, they're more like armadillos.

Nope. Think about how the Vrusk are structured and what the weight of the carapace and internal skeleton combined would be, and now look at the legs. The legs are not positioned to support the weight. If the legs were correct biologically, then they would be underneath the center of mass for the body in order to provide support for all of that weight and not splayed out like an insect. For comparison, think about how the armadillo's or the rhino's legs are positioned relative to their centers of body mass.

Face it, some designer at TSR said "Ohmigod! We've got to make a science fiction RPG to remain relevant! Quick! Let's make The Herculoids and other Hanna Barbara cartoon characters into PC races! Gloop and Gleep can be Dralasites! Zorak's race can become Vrusk!" and Star Frontiers is what happened.

Quote from: jhkim;1120601don't work, however. There's no explanation of how they can get enough oxygen for respiration, or how their muscles can operate without a skeleton.

That is because Dralasites are humanoid shaped amoebas. The closest things that they could be compared to are prehistoric mitochondrial organisms before they became part of the biologically modern cellular structure.

Quote from: jeff37923;1120605Nope. Think about how the Vrusk are structured and what the weight of the carapace and internal skeleton combined would be, and now look at the legs. The legs are not positioned to support the weight. If the legs were correct biologically, then they would be underneath the center of mass for the body in order to provide support for all of that weight and not splayed out like an insect. For comparison, think about how the armadillo's or the rhino's legs are positioned relative to their centers of body mass.

That's not a disqualifier. Crocodiles have splayed legs, can move very quickly on land, and prehistoric examples with very similar body plans were the size of an elephant. Pretty much any giant land animal from prehistory that isn't a mammal or a dinosaur would also qualify, because the fully upright posture with legs directly under the body only appeared in those two lineages (I think... but even if there's another exception, it's still covers multiple animals that top out at couple tons). While the upright posture is a major advantage, after all it's one the features that made dinosaurs fast and allowed them to grow to unprecedented sizes, it's not a structural necessity at the human scale.

If you're interested in scale and biodynamics, McGowan wrote a couple of good, popular books on the subject. They're not recent books, but it's not one those subfields that goes out of date particularly quickly.

Though this is a rather silly argument. It's clear they wanted a space bug and a space amoeba, which is fundamentally Science! out of a pulp serial. But it's also clear they tried to come up a more modern pseudo-plausible rationale for them both. So the implausibility isn't that they're insects or amoeba, because they're not; it's in how well those two forms are justified by scientific gobbledygook, and in the staggering coincidence that humans ran across multiple alien races that are roughly comparable to humans in size and physical capabilities, think enough like humans that they can smoothly integrate into human culture, and on top of all that they just happen to look like terrestrial bugs, amoeba, flying monkeys, and snakes.