Hey guys, I'm new to the forum as well as fairly new to the OSR at large. I've been consuming a bunch of products to make heads or tails of what my favourite ruleset might be and what might be best suited for my purposes, both within and outside the OSR itself. Now the reason I'm starting this thread is because I've begun working on a tabletop RPG a few years back inspired by the Shin Megami Tensei franchise, and preferably I would like to do it in the OSR tradition since the games themselves are fairly old-school themselves and share a few interesting commonalities with OD&D, not the least of which being the alignments, traditional dungeon crawling in the vein of Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder and so on. So for those who don't know (a cursory search on this forum showed me that y'all seem to be more or less familiar with it), SMT is an occult cyberpunk-themed JRPG franchise where the heroes are called upon to befriend all manner of Demons to basically go fight God in the name of either Law, Neutrality or Chaos. Interestingly, I've already found a rules-light take on such a game called Small Town Gothic on the OSR Pit, but I'm looking to create something a bit more crunchy and true to the source material.

Now there are several issues I'm tackling with this premise. First of all SMT games do not feature any classes, but depending on which game you play there might be different types of characters that may be suitable for different archetypes. Based on that I've already devised a few basic character classes (including a couple of Demi-human ones), roughly based around your typical OSR fair. These are Demon Buster (Fighter), Devil Summoner (Specialist), and Magic-User (self-explanatory). Beside those I've added a couple of Demi-human classes, namely the Demonoid from SMTII and IV and the Manikin from SMTIII/Nocturne. Personally I would like to add at least one more class, be it Human or Demi-human, but I want to avoid going overboard and adding things like Demi-Fiends or Avatar Tuners and stuff like that. I'd prefer character options that don't break the game's balance too much. Honestly I've been considering a Priest-like class (like Exorcist or something), but I have yet to decide.

The other issue I'm having is character progression and Magic. So the problem is that, in classic JRPG fashion, SMT has an uncapped level progression up to level 99 and potentially beyond. This is supported by a simple point buy system enabling you to raise a stat (or more in some games) each level, but if we're implementing an OD&D framework this kinda falls flat, especially in terms of old-school ability modifiers that don't progress past 20 (I could use the 3e modifiers in that respect, but upgrading a stat each level seems a bit too much). At the same time however we need to be able to accommodate some broken boss fights here and there at the very least. So I've been thinking of making a similar point-buy system where, instead of having your Attack Bonus be determined by your class it's actually a skill you need to invest points into and stuff like that. So each level you get to choose whether to raise an ability or a skill or even learn a Spell from a Demon Companion, but I'm not sure if that's better than to just stick with the standard OD&D formula of about 20 levels and just slowing down the progression a bit, while having the specific bonuses and spells be determined by each class separately).

The Magic system on the other hand is gonna be a handful because SMT has this thing where you can only learn a certain amount of spells before you have to start deleting others. This was not a problem in SMTI & II since your protagonist didn't use spells at all, but it became a staple later on. One idea I've been toying with would be to have characters prepare spells by installing them on their COMPs (while still spending MP to actually cast them), which would have them sacrifice their potential Demon Summoning slots for Spells. So depending on whether you're a Demon Buster or Magic-User you might want to prioritize one over the other. But that brings us to the next issue, namely learning spells. My initial thought would be to have players learn spells from Demons, as would be the case in SMTIV, but this seems reductive especially for the Magic-User. So I suppose he would have to have a normal Magic Progression like Mages do in other games, while still having to equip spells on his COMP, rather than preparing his daily spells.

Next we have the Demon Companions themselves. Obviously the rules should be geared towards limiting how many Demons players are actually allowed to summon, which will be regulated by how much Magnetite they have (a rechargeable currency for demon summoning, which you gain from fighting demons but which caps per level to keep things fair), and how many slots they have available that are not occupied by spells. Plus Demons get to level up (for simplicity's sake I've decided to let the player choose one Demon to level up each time they do, and to create a table to determine which stats get boosted or whether they learn a new ability) and then we'll need a Demon Fusion system as well, but I think it's still a bit too early for that.

Lastly I'm actually thinking of using a 2d10 system rather than d20, where each 0 rolled can explode allowing you to hit higher numbers, while also adding an additional 50% damage (especially important for certain high-level boss fights). Obviously I'm also planning on implementing a Press Turn system, so with each critical hit or weakness you hit you get another turn to exploit your enemy's weaknesses.

Anyway, that's all I've got so far. What do y'all think? I could definitely use some help to parse out a lot of the information since the original games have hundreds of spells and demons that need to be converted and which also differ from game to game, so if anyone wants to help out that would be greatly appreciated as well.

1) Link us to videos / info about the Shin Megami Tensei franchise. We have a few anime fans on the forum (calling Doc Sammy!!) and the rest of us would need a primer.

2) Link us to Small Town Gothic and the OSR Pit. We talk about a lot of OSR games, but I've never seen Small Town Gothic mentioned.

Quote from: Spinachcat on October 04, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
1) Link us to videos / info about the Shin Megami Tensei franchise. We have a few anime fans on the forum (calling Doc Sammy!!) and the rest of us would need a primer.

2) Link us to Small Town Gothic and the OSR Pit. We talk about a lot of OSR games, but I've never seen Small Town Gothic mentioned.

Oh snap, I knew I forgot something!

1) here's an SMT Primer, there's a a lot of those on youtube, but this one should do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHCExZKVwKs

2) STG can be found on here and it includes links to the itch.io page where it can be downloaded. It's honestly pretty nifty and definitely inspiring, but it's not quite what I have in mind myself.
https://discourse.osrrpg.com/t/demon-collection-osr/636

Also this one might be more applicable here as it pertains specifically to the first game which is very Old-School

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO2vrbpVsas

Here's a blog post as well that might be a bit more palatable to some of you:

http://theamateurdungeoneers.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-shin-megami-tensei-franchise-and.html?m=1

Thanks for sharing your project.  My only exposure to SMT was a brief flirtation with the online version.  I didn't get far because the combat tutorial was like root canal.  But the game's atmosphere was unique and the demons were great, very inventive, more like the spirits in a Miyazaki film than D&D demons.  My impression was that taming and using these demons was the key game-play feature, but I could be wrong.

When you say "SMT inspired" are you planning to use protected IP in a hobby game to share with friends or are you keeping it distant enough to sell as your own work?

Creating a new set of mechanics is always a fun project, but I imagine it could get overwhelming even if set firmly in the OSR.  Another option is to pick an existing rule set and just create a setting guide for the SMT world, or your version of it.  Either way, I wish you luck.  I would certainly enjoy seeing a finished product.

I've watched a couple of videos trying to figure out what SMT is about, but they were all about game mechanics... not setting or story.
Visually it looks like a K-pop boy band having Final Fantasy battles in a car park.

SMT is really Pokemon with demons (or Jungian archetypes in the case of Persona). Doesn't look hard to pull out.

There's a game called Voidheart Symphony which is supposed to be Persona with the serial numbers filled off. Perhaps it could be mined for ideas for an OSR game. Here is an article about it.

Quote



Drawing inspiration from games like Persona and Persona 5 and all the other ones in between, this game definitely wears its anime influence on its sleeve. But that's also where it wears its heart. Voidheart Symphony is a rare mix of a game with a ton of heart and a cool system that invites you to dig right in to the world they're creating. It's Powered by the Apocalypse, which is either going to draw you in or turn you off, but what it does with the engine is beautiful. Players take the role of Rebels–people who have seen the wound in the world, who have a look at the secret shadowy force that's applying pressure to make our world bad. And you fight it by transforming into an idealized version of yourself who ventures into the twisting labyrinth of the mind of the person/monster/thing you're fighting against. Because the other influences, Psychonauts and Inception mean this game has permission to get weird.

Right away you can feel how the game plays out. You see this twisted nightmare castle lurking in the background, it's shadowy tendrils instilling corruption. Little by little you fight its vassals, and forge bonds and covenants with friends and rebels–building a community is necessary if you're going to beat this thing–and then you venture in to the castle to try and heal your world.

Well looks like the perfect thread showed up for me to poke in fore a moment or two.

So to start the core megami tensei franchise shin  megami tensei is a mixture of horror, occultism , post apocalypse and a touch of cyber punk in that order.

the beginning of the first game from the shin megami tensei wiki.

BeginningEdit

The story begins with a dream sequence as the nameless Protagonist is led through a formless hallway to meet a crucified man, a man tortured by demons, and a beautiful woman bathing who pledges to be with him eternally.

Upon waking, the story begins in Tokyo as the Protagonist checks his email to learn that a mysterious man calling himself Stephen has sent out a suspicious 'Demon Summoning Program' to all those willing to use it. Intrigued, the Protagonist downloads it onto his laptop before going out on an errand for his mother. Outside, it becomes apparent that all is not right with Tokyo - police have barricaded many streets and people have started to go missing, along with a recent murder in the park. It's soon realized that recent experiments with Terminal-based teleportation have accidentally opened up a portal to The Abyss, and demons have begun roaming the streets.

The Protagonist has another dream in which he meets the same dream-companions again, only this time they interrupt a ritual sacrifice in the dream. The woman who was to be sacrificed expresses her gratitude before the dream ends. Guided by the mysterious Stephen, the Protagonist uses the Demon-summoning program to convince some of the demons to join him and fight back against the more hostile demons. He soon meets up with the real-world versions of the men he met in his dream as they begin a search for some of the missing persons in the demon-infested Tokyo. Along the way, he meets a woman named Yuriko, who claims to be the woman he met in his dream and that she intends to fulfill her promise to always be with him as soon as she can sever his connection to 'the other one'.

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei
https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Megami_Tensei_Wiki(main page)
and heres the beginning of the first games remake on the snes 17 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC6aMAHiLuE

I very much recommend the games there is a massive amount to mine out of them for the table .
An easy entry point would be the devil survivor series they are a little easier and slightly simplified but not so much as to make them a bad foot in the door.
That or just play the fan patch of the snes version of the first game.

I'm playing Persona 5 (Royal edition) now and having a blast. It's not perfect, dialogue is too expositive and the story drags at parts, but gameplay is good and the premise of Jungian psychonauts is very well realized. I bet we will see a lot of RPGs inspired by it from now on.