You won't be able to guess who the official D&D Youtube channel decided to say "thank you" to for D&D. Though you probably will be able to guess which names they completely erased from the official history...
#dnd #ttrpg #osr #onednd #wotc
Karl Marx. He only invented LARPing, but it's a related hobby.
I thought it would be "Jennell" Jaquays for creating DnD.
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 14, 2024, 10:50:29 PM
Karl Marx. He only invented LARPing, but it's a related hobby.
Hah, please expand on this statement ;D
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 14, 2024, 10:50:29 PM
Karl Marx. He only invented LARPing, but it's a related hobby.
You know, I used to think that Karl Marx was a hypocrite, but then I realized he was a sincere communist when I read that several of his children starved to death. So it's been Real Communism ™ all along.
Watch the video to find out. The actual answer is in some ways even worse than any of the guesses here.
Link to the D&D video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g)
I feel like it's just a bog standard "Large Corporation Video #80". Also, why would they thank specific individuals if "the community" might dig up a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model and then it's a PR disaster. I'm sure there's a 20 year old HR handbook that was the template for this "safe, unoffensive, inclusive PR video".
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
Link to the D&D video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g)
I feel like it's just a bog standard "Large Corporation Video #80". Also, why would they thank specific individuals if "the community" might dig up a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model and then it's a PR disaster. I'm sure there's a 20 year old HR handbook that was the template for this "safe, unoffensive, inclusive PR video".
It's pretty clearly more than that. This is like thanking Jeff Bezos and the Amazon DEI division for Lord of the Rings, and not mentioning Tolkien. It's a Replacement Strategy: D&D wasn't invented by a pair of Evil Straight Cis WHITEMALES! It was "created", by the "community", which the right people very strictly police for anything problematic, like whiteness or straightness or not wanting to buy a book that pretends to be D&D but actually just wants to lecture you about gender.
Well, I'm sure I can guess who they didn't think to mention. I am guessing Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson weren't mentioned. Who the fuck is "the community" anyway?
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 16, 2024, 01:34:03 PM
Well, I'm sure I can guess who they didn't think to mention. I am guessing Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson weren't mentioned. Who the fuck is "the community" anyway?
You know who they're talking about...
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 15, 2024, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
Link to the D&D video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t29yNXBq-g)
I feel like it's just a bog standard "Large Corporation Video #80". Also, why would they thank specific individuals if "the community" might dig up a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model and then it's a PR disaster. I'm sure there's a 20 year old HR handbook that was the template for this "safe, unoffensive, inclusive PR video".
It's pretty clearly more than that. This is like thanking Jeff Bezos and the Amazon DEI division for Lord of the Rings, and not mentioning Tolkien. It's a Replacement Strategy: D&D wasn't invented by a pair of Evil Straight Cis WHITEMALES! It was "created", by the "community", which the right people very strictly police for anything problematic, like whiteness or straightness or not wanting to buy a book that pretends to be D&D but actually just wants to lecture you about gender.
Revisionists don't give credit to the actual creators, because they weren't flying rainbow flags back in 1974.
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
...a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model...
I'd like to see that picture... 8)
Quote from: Baron on February 16, 2024, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
...a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model...
I'd like to see that picture... 8)
I heard a first hand account of it in a bar a few years back from someone who was there and was drunk with no reason to lie, so it probably really happened. D&D money was real, and an actual cultural phenomenon. Gary seems to have run full blast with that 15 minutes.
I guess it was Crawford and the rest of the gay prom committee to thank then.
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 16, 2024, 01:34:03 PM
Well, I'm sure I can guess who they didn't think to mention. I am guessing Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson weren't mentioned. Who the fuck is "the community" anyway?
The blue haired DEI community of course. Never mind that were not even born in 1974. They are special enough to have time traveled right?
Quote from: Baron on February 16, 2024, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
...a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model...
I'd like to see that picture... 8)
Close enough? Its Not Gary, but that never stopped the Woke from hallucinating whatever they want.(Image is 50% NSFW so tagged it so the prude patrol can click and bitch anyhow. You know they will.)
Spoiler
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/mNEMWorTgC_vrthsG4whHw__original/img/6kKyV6mszNX7q9010no0e85OmlU=/0x0/filters:format(jpeg)/pic1910397.jpg)
No. I'm very sad. :(
And a woman's back is NSFW? Good thing Ill be shuffling off this mortal coil, because it's getting worse every day.
Backbone sounds like a sexual fetish for Chiropractors.
That doesn't look right. Someone put a wig on a headless mannequin.
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 16, 2024, 01:34:03 PM
Well, I'm sure I can guess who they didn't think to mention. I am guessing Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson weren't mentioned. Who the fuck is "the community" anyway?
Not only are they making a big deal out of Gygax and Arneson, they're putting out a whole upscale 600 page book about it.
Includes:
The original commentary in the Euro fanzine from Gary explaining the rules
Chainmail, 2nd printing
Outdoor Survival
A 100 page first draft of the rules, along with notes from Gary and Dave
Brown Box D&D with Hobbits, Entw, & Balrogs
Greyhawk
Blackmoor
Eldritch Wizardry
Correspondence between Gary and Dave
A lot more
(https://i.ibb.co/RbLS311/image.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/vqRsqn0/the-making-of-original-d-d-back-cover-png.png)
Quote from: Omega on February 16, 2024, 11:39:48 PM
Quote from: Baron on February 16, 2024, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
...a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model...
I'd like to see that picture... 8)
Close enough? Its Not Gary, but that never stopped the Woke from hallucinating whatever they want.(Image is 50% NSFW so tagged it so the prude patrol can click and bitch anyhow. You know they will.)
Spoiler
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/mNEMWorTgC_vrthsG4whHw__original/img/6kKyV6mszNX7q9010no0e85OmlU=/0x0/filters:format(jpeg)/pic1910397.jpg)
Is that John McAfee?
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 15, 2024, 03:07:54 PM
It's pretty clearly more than that. This is like thanking Jeff Bezos and the Amazon DEI division for Lord of the Rings, and not mentioning Tolkien. It's a Replacement Strategy: D&D wasn't invented by a pair of Evil Straight Cis WHITEMALES! It was "created", by the "community", which the right people very strictly police for anything problematic, like whiteness or straightness or not wanting to buy a book that pretends to be D&D but actually just wants to lecture you about gender.
I think the word you are looking for here is appropriation. This is not unlike what they did with Cleopatra.
Like any psychopath, they are taking credit for the work of others.
This was just Standard Corporate Template E23452: Act Like You Appreciate Your Customer. They didn't mention Dave or Gary, but neither did they mention anyone else involved in any D&D version, just gushing about how wonderful The Community is. If they hadn't mentioned the creators but had thanked nobodies like the Deck of Many Autistic Things writer, I'd have taken exception to it, but this is just empty corporate noise.
On the other hand, in the video about the big book they're selling about the original game they did take time to mention that they would be "contextualizing" the content to emphasize how progressive they are now, so you can expect either a foreward or sidebars about how -ist D&D was and suffices to guarantee that I'll never touch the thing.
Quote from: BadApple on February 17, 2024, 11:00:46 AM
Is that John McAfee?
That looks more like Castro's son, except he's in beardface instead of blackface.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 16, 2024, 01:34:03 PM
Well, I'm sure I can guess who they didn't think to mention. I am guessing Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson weren't mentioned. Who the fuck is "the community" anyway?
Not only are they making a big deal out of Gygax and Arneson, they're putting out a whole upscale 600 page book about it.
Includes:
The original commentary in the Euro fanzine from Gary explaining the rules
Chainmail, 2nd printing
Outdoor Survival
A 100 page first draft of the rules, along with notes from Gary and Dave
Brown Box D&D with Hobbits, Entw, & Balrogs
Greyhawk
Blackmoor
Eldritch Wizardry
Correspondence between Gary and Dave
A lot more
(https://i.ibb.co/RbLS311/image.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/vqRsqn0/the-making-of-original-d-d-back-cover-png.png)
Did you actually watch this video? Done six days after the video I was talking about, they finally get around to mentioning Arneson and Gygax. In the video, they essentially say that Gygax and Arneson were evil and what they made was evil.
Is that somehow better?
So how can you be sure the book they're producing won't start with a lengthy essay talking about the same thing, CONDEMNING Gygax, Arneson and the entire Old School and all regular D&D gamers, which is what that video did.
Quote from: BadApple on February 17, 2024, 11:00:46 AM
Quote from: Omega on February 16, 2024, 11:39:48 PM
Quote from: Baron on February 16, 2024, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Dracones on February 15, 2024, 12:29:11 PM
...a picture of Gary doing a line of coke off a super model...
I'd like to see that picture... 8)
Close enough? Its Not Gary, but that never stopped the Woke from hallucinating whatever they want.(Image is 50% NSFW so tagged it so the prude patrol can click and bitch anyhow. You know they will.)
Spoiler
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/mNEMWorTgC_vrthsG4whHw__original/img/6kKyV6mszNX7q9010no0e85OmlU=/0x0/filters:format(jpeg)/pic1910397.jpg)
Is that John McAfee?
The next person who tries to derail my thread by talking about something that has NOTHING to do with the actual topic will be immediately PERMABANNED.
Badapple, do not post on this thread again.
Omega, likewise.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 17, 2024, 10:49:17 PM
Did you actually watch this video? Done six days after the video I was talking about, they finally get around to mentioning Arneson and Gygax. In the video, they essentially say that Gygax and Arneson were evil and what they made was evil.
Is that somehow better?
So how can you be sure the book they're producing won't start with a lengthy essay talking about the same thing, CONDEMNING Gygax, Arneson and the entire Old School and all regular D&D gamers, which is what that video did.
Yes, I watched the video. No, they never say or imply anything like Gygax and Arenson were evil and what they made was evil. Even you can't spin that fib with a straight face.
Quote from: Baron on February 16, 2024, 11:44:04 PM
No. I'm very sad. :(
And a woman's back is NSFW? Good thing Ill be shuffling off this mortal coil, because it's getting worse every day.
Yeah people on BGG consider that "pornography". Because of course they do.
Back on topic. Of course wotc wont say much of anything at all about Gygax, Arneson or anyone else.
I will be surprised if they still get mention in the credits. Now that Mearls is out. Wonder if they will erase him too?
Also would not surprise me if they did this specifically to rile people up. But more likely its just wotc being stupid. Again.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 17, 2024, 10:49:17 PM
Did you actually watch this video? Done six days after the video I was talking about, they finally get around to mentioning Arneson and Gygax. In the video, they essentially say that Gygax and Arneson were evil and what they made was evil.
Is that somehow better?
So how can you be sure the book they're producing won't start with a lengthy essay talking about the same thing, CONDEMNING Gygax, Arneson and the entire Old School and all regular D&D gamers, which is what that video did.
Yes, I watched the video. No, they never say or imply anything like Gygax and Arenson were evil and what they made was evil. Even you can't spin that fib with a straight face.
Gygax and Arneson were, according to the video "white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities", and D&D was "a lot of material that wouldn't pass our inclusivity reviews today". In degenerate woke-speak, that's saying they were evil.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2024, 04:12:53 AM
Gygax and Arneson were, according to the video "white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities", and D&D was "a lot of material that wouldn't pass our inclusivity reviews today". In degenerate woke-speak, that's saying they were evil.
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
I see alot of "Thank you players" interspersed with alot of "Thank you community"
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2024, 04:12:53 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 17, 2024, 10:49:17 PM
Did you actually watch this video? Done six days after the video I was talking about, they finally get around to mentioning Arneson and Gygax. In the video, they essentially say that Gygax and Arneson were evil and what they made was evil.
Is that somehow better?
So how can you be sure the book they're producing won't start with a lengthy essay talking about the same thing, CONDEMNING Gygax, Arneson and the entire Old School and all regular D&D gamers, which is what that video did.
Yes, I watched the video. No, they never say or imply anything like Gygax and Arenson were evil and what they made was evil. Even you can't spin that fib with a straight face.
Gygax and Arneson were, according to the video "white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities", and D&D was "a lot of material that wouldn't pass our inclusivity reviews today". In degenerate woke-speak, that's saying they were evil.
LOL did YOU watch the video? It's hilarious that's what you took from that utter love letter to them.
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
'
It's in the longer promo video for the "Making Of D&D" book, at the 35-minute mark.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 14, 2024, 10:32:33 PM
You won't be able to guess who the official D&D Youtube channel decided to say "thank you" to for D&D. Though you probably will be able to guess which names they completely erased from the official history...
#dnd #ttrpg #osr #onednd #wotc
Well, if the community created D&D and made it what it is today; I guess I should give myself a pat on the back, and raise my cup to the rest of the community!!!
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 18, 2024, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
'
It's in the longer promo video for the "Making Of D&D" book, at the 35-minute mark.
So in a commercial for a book they want to sell you where they just can't avoid it?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 18, 2024, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 18, 2024, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
'
It's in the longer promo video for the "Making Of D&D" book, at the 35-minute mark.
So in a commercial for a book they want to sell you where they just can't avoid it?
I sat through it and did anyone else notice that they brag alot about how they OWN this or that game. They OWN OD&D and they Own Outdoor Survival? Not "Oh yeah we ended up with the rights to that along the way."
And then you get to their bragging on the "Inclusivity" censors and how OD&D would never pass. Because "they were all men and all white" Which is a flat out lie. There were girls playing from pretty much the get go.
Bunch of lying fucks.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2024, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2024, 04:12:53 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 17, 2024, 10:49:17 PM
Did you actually watch this video? Done six days after the video I was talking about, they finally get around to mentioning Arneson and Gygax. In the video, they essentially say that Gygax and Arneson were evil and what they made was evil.
Is that somehow better?
So how can you be sure the book they're producing won't start with a lengthy essay talking about the same thing, CONDEMNING Gygax, Arneson and the entire Old School and all regular D&D gamers, which is what that video did.
Yes, I watched the video. No, they never say or imply anything like Gygax and Arenson were evil and what they made was evil. Even you can't spin that fib with a straight face.
Gygax and Arneson were, according to the video "white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities", and D&D was "a lot of material that wouldn't pass our inclusivity reviews today". In degenerate woke-speak, that's saying they were evil.
LOL did YOU watch the video? It's hilarious that's what you took from that utter love letter to them.
Form the "love letter to Arneson and Gygax":
Quote
> "And this is a historical document so there are things... it was a different time. So we've had an inclusivity review of all these materials."
>> "Multiple, so let's, let's take a step back here. Let's clarify, there are materials in Original Dungeons & Dragons that would never pass"
> "Yeah"
>> "our inclusivity reviews today... Uh... And a lot of it is you can, some of it you can understand, like, okay, these are a bunch of wargamers, and they're using armies from history, and so when they create a warrior class for D&D they call it the Fighting Man, right?
Because that's what they were used to and they were all men, they were all white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities but that's just the tip of the iceberg right? Like there's a lot of material in this book and I won't go over all of it, but it would not pass our inclusivity reviews..."
Seems to me Pundit is 1000% correct.
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 18, 2024, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 18, 2024, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
'
It's in the longer promo video for the "Making Of D&D" book, at the 35-minute mark.
So in a commercial for a book they want to sell you where they just can't avoid it?
I sat through it and did anyone else notice that they brag alot about how they OWN this or that game. They OWN OD&D and they Own Outdoor Survival? Not "Oh yeah we ended up with the rights to that along the way."
And then you get to their bragging on the "Inclusivity" censors and how OD&D would never pass. Because "they were all men and all white" Which is a flat out lie. There were girls playing from pretty much the get go.
Bunch of lying fucks.
To be expected from the Woketards.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2024, 10:01:26 AM
LOL did YOU watch the video? It's hilarious that's what you took from that utter love letter to them.
Its a "love letter" wotc takes the time to piss all over. Apparently you did not watch all the way through to the 35min point where they just have to go on about inclusiviity and how "Fighting Man" is somehow bad because the players were "all men and all white" and how OD&D would never pass inclicivity?
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2024, 10:01:26 AM
LOL did YOU watch the video? It's hilarious that's what you took from that utter love letter to them.
Its a "love letter" wotc takes the time to piss all over. Apparently you did not watch all the way through to the 35min point where they just have to go on about inclusiviity and how "Fighting Man" is somehow bad because the players were "all men and all white" and how OD&D would never pass inclicivity?
He's not being paid to watch a video. He might not be being paid to shill for WotC, either, since he strikes me as the sort who would shill for them for free....
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2024, 04:12:53 AM
Gygax and Arneson were, according to the video "white dudes from Lake Geneva and the Twin Cities", and D&D was "a lot of material that wouldn't pass our inclusivity reviews today". In degenerate woke-speak, that's saying they were evil.
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
I see alot of "Thank you players" interspersed with alot of "Thank you community"
Sorry, my quote wasn't referring to the "thank you D&D" video, but to the "how D&D got started" video.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 18, 2024, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 18, 2024, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 18, 2024, 05:40:01 AM
I went through the video and did not see this stated? Did it get edited out?
'
It's in the longer promo video for the "Making Of D&D" book, at the 35-minute mark.
So in a commercial for a book they want to sell you where they just can't avoid it?
Yes, it's a book they made, of the original edition of D&D, meant to be a total love letter to old D&D, but they just CAN NOT RESIST shitting all over it for their ideological purity.
The video ends with saying "That (Gygax/Arneson) is not D&D anymore." They're literally claiming it was too evil to exist today, and that they are superior people who made a superior game (hint: none of these people made ANYTHING; Mike Mearls and I made the edition they're being paid to mutilate today), and they have a better audience because they have less white males (hint: not nearly as few as they try to pretend, which is why their garbage "diversity" books are selling worse and worse).
Also, a WARNING to any of the autistics in the crowd who are overdosing on the memberberries and having every instinct to be a mindless-drone Collector and pay $100 to Hasbro, a corporation controlled by people who literally want you to be kicked out of the hobby (and maybe just exterminated in general), take note that Tondro used some careful phrasing at the end of that video, it seems to suggest to me that the book, while they did not actually go and edit out the parts they hate (which would be all of the OD&D stuff, pretty much), will very likely contain a section telling you how horrible and evil the text was, and Gygax and Arneson were, and how awful and despicable YOU are if you actually like any of this stuff instead of wanting to give up your place at the table for a disabled black lesbian trans indigenous neurodivergent midget, which is what they want their new "community" to be. Not a filthy horrible evil gamer like you, who probably actually LIKES D&D (instead of despising it and wanting to change it into a mockery).
So seriously, at the very least, do yourself the favor of not preordering. It would be WAY better, if you want to celebrate the history of D&D, if you went and picked up the Tonisborg book, which is also an amazing historical resource, and contains one of the earliest megadungeons AND a complete system reflecting how the game was played at Arneson's table at the time. Or pick up a bunch of OSR stuff, and celebrate the hobby's future, because I guarantee you that the nonsense and garbage that WotC is putting out is not the future, nor is their changing D&D into subscription-fee phone game the future.
At the very least, for Christ's sake, contain your sperg instincts for just the tiniest bit, and wait until the product comes out or a full table of contents is provided or a sneak preview, so you can see how much they actually hate you and everything you love. And then DON'T FUCKING BUY IT. Stop giving money to people who want you to cease to exist.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 11:46:46 PM
Yes, I watched the video. No, they never say or imply anything like Gygax and Arenson were evil and what they made was evil. Even you can't spin that fib with a straight face.
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
It is really small of WOTC, to offer something to the community that the community is likely interested in; and then shit on the precious, before it comes out. They hate themselves, for celebrating OD&D's history.
There are multiple OSR takes on OD&D, that don't give WOTC any income. It's a unique flavor of D&D, but you don't need anything from WOTC to play it.
What is actually minty fresh new in this book? Seems to be the Supp II Blackmoor with EGG's snarky comments in the margins and the letters between DA and EGG. Given the likely flame war between Team Dave and Team Gary that will come from the publication of these, it seems that we will all know the contents soon enough and can save $100 on stuff that is easily obtainable elsewhere if you don't already have it.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 19, 2024, 12:41:40 AM
At the very least, for Christ's sake, contain your sperg instincts for just the tiniest bit, and wait until the product comes out or a full table of contents is provided or a sneak preview, so you can see how much they actually hate you and everything you love. And then DON'T FUCKING BUY IT. Stop giving money to people who want you to cease to exist.
IF you buy it, it's best to wait around to pick up a used copy off the web to limit cash flow to WotC.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 19, 2024, 12:41:40 AM
At the very least, for Christ's sake, contain your sperg instincts for just the tiniest bit, and wait until the product comes out or a full table of contents is provided or a sneak preview, so you can see how much they actually hate you and everything you love. And then DON'T FUCKING BUY IT. Stop giving money to people who want you to cease to exist.
Anyone who says OD&D is not D&D anymore can fuck off and die in a fire. I wouldn't buy this crap even if was marked down by 90%. I have REAL D&D products that I will continue to enjoy until I croak. I don't need a history lesson that is smeared with shit.
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2024, 03:35:10 AM
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
LOL wut
Inclusivity failures of D&D? Too much Moorcock and not enough Howard or something? What the fuck does this even mean?
Quote from: Brad on February 19, 2024, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2024, 03:35:10 AM
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
LOL wut
Inclusivity failures of D&D? Too much Moorcock and not enough Howard or something? What the fuck does this even mean?
Not enough African lesbian trans women.
Quote from: Brad on February 19, 2024, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2024, 03:35:10 AM
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
LOL wut
Inclusivity failures of D&D? Too much Moorcock and not enough Howard or something? What the fuck does this even mean?
Not enough gay prom...because it sure seems the current crop of "creators" is absolutely obsessed with that.
Quote from: Brad on February 19, 2024, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2024, 03:35:10 AM
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
LOL wut
Inclusivity failures of D&D? Too much Moorcock and not enough Howard or something? What the fuck does this even mean?
One example they gave was that in OD&D the fighter was called a "fighting MAN".
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 22, 2024, 06:04:00 AM
One example they gave was that in OD&D the fighter was called a "fighting MAN".
Oh I know what they're trying to do...it's the same bullshit with movies now. Introduce BLACK Spider-Man because black kids can't possibly identify with anyone who doesn't look like them, but when I was growing up every other kid in the fucking world had a Spider-Man mask on Halloween. Fighting Man makes sense because it's SUPPOSED TO BE CONAN. Or Kull, or whomever. This is just horseshit Marxist rhetoric trying to rewrite history and imply that because it's fighting MAN, women and minorities especially were not allowed to play D&D. That's all it is. Change the past to look like whatever you're doing now is vastly better because it's morally superior.
I'm really starting to wonder if any of these people have ever actually played an RPG in their lives.
Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2024, 09:27:10 AM
I'm really starting to wonder if any of these people have ever actually played an RPG in their lives.
Yes and No. They are an NPC in their own life. But that isn't really playing. So depends on how you want to call it. ;D
Wait... we can sell our loveletters of the people we abuse... to strangers... for profit???
Brilliant marketing idea.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 17, 2024, 10:46:03 AMNot only are they making a big deal out of Gygax and Arneson, they're putting out a whole upscale 600 page book about it.
Includes:
The original commentary in the Euro fanzine from Gary explaining the rules
Chainmail, 2nd printing
Outdoor Survival
A 100 page first draft of the rules, along with notes from Gary and Dave
Brown Box D&D with Hobbits, Entw, & Balrogs
Greyhawk
Blackmoor
Eldritch Wizardry
Correspondence between Gary and Dave
A lot more
(https://i.ibb.co/RbLS311/image.png)
There was a time I would have paid hundreds of dollars for a book containing that stuff. Now I see no value in it.
Quote from: tenbones on February 22, 2024, 01:26:13 PM
Wait... we can sell our loveletters of the people we abuse... to strangers... for profit???
Brilliant marketing idea.
This has been going on since the 90s.
Quote from: BadApple on February 20, 2024, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 19, 2024, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2024, 03:35:10 AM
The timestamp is around 36:06 in which they say they will "acknowledge" the inclusivity failures of original D&D and add "that's not D&D anymore". So yes, you can expect a posthumous smear session somewhere in that book, which suffices to make me not get the book. Not that I was inclined to pay WotC to begin with.
LOL wut
Inclusivity failures of D&D? Too much Moorcock and not enough Howard or something? What the fuck does this even mean?
Not enough African lesbian trans women.
FFG has you covered there with their new Arkham Horror.
I kid you not one of the characters is a black lesbian who is married to another woman and "has a taste for young girls" In the 1920s.
Another character in an expansion joined a cult because "His parents misgendered him."...
Quote from: Omega on February 24, 2024, 02:41:35 AM
I kid you not one of the characters is a black lesbian who is married to another woman and "has a taste for young girls" In the 1920s.
Another character in an expansion joined a cult because "His parents misgendered him."...
1920s...America? The first character would probably be sent to prison at best, hung at the worst. The second character ACTUALLY makes some sense if the cult is some weird devil worshipers, but I bet a billion dollars whoever came up with it doesn't see the irony whatsoever.
Quote from: Brad on February 24, 2024, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 24, 2024, 02:41:35 AM
I kid you not one of the characters is a black lesbian who is married to another woman and "has a taste for young girls" In the 1920s.
Another character in an expansion joined a cult because "His parents misgendered him."...
1920s...America? The first character would probably be sent to prison at best, hung at the worst.
I don't know the module. Most modules have a lot of bad history in them. However, in the 1920s, while there was no legal recognition of same-sex marriage, there were lots of homosexual people who were often in relationships - and they did have Bohemian ceremonies for them. The Roaring Twenties were a time of notoriously loose social standards in many circles - with a lot of obviously LGBT performers. Cross-dressing shows were popular mainstream entertainment, with stars like Julian Eltinge pulling in big audiences. It was only later in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, that this became increasingly cracked down on.
Gladys Bentley might be a good model for the character:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Gladys_Bentley_c._1930_%28extracted%29.jpg/360px-Gladys_Bentley_c._1930_%28extracted%29.jpg)
She was a famous cross-dressing star in the 1920s. She claimed that she married a white woman in New Jersey, but the woman's identity was never released. (ref) (https://blog.bham.ac.uk/historybham/gladys-bentley/) Later, during the 1930s, her cross-dressing act lost popularity, and in the 1940s she declared herself cured of her condition by taking female hormones.
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.
A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.
While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.
Yeah, and I can't believe Liberace was gay. I mean, women loved him! I didn't see that one coming.
Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.
A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.
While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.
Wtf does this have to do with legality? I suppose you're an Al Capone apologist?
Quote from: Brad on February 25, 2024, 08:47:27 PM
Wtf does this have to do with legality? I suppose you're an Al Capone apologist?
Well, he did prevent the gross adulteration of milk in Chicago and the Midwest, and forced dates onto milk for freshness, which lead to saving the lives of countless of children during the Prohibition era, especially since it was a good business to hide used up corn mash, and young lives thereafter...
Wait, what are we talking about again? :o ;D
Oh yeah, something something Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad also invented D&D, and Abraham Lincoln was a Vampire Hunter and the first LARPer... 8) No, wait, that's probably wrong. It needs more diversity. ;D Little people were the first Warhammer miniatures? Am I doing this right? :o
Quote from: Opaopajr on February 25, 2024, 10:09:29 PMLittle people were the first Warhammer miniatures? Am I doing this right? :o
What are you, a Nazi?
They're People Of Little.
Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.
A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.
While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.
A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected? The jhkim AIbot strikes again! And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on February 26, 2024, 05:57:58 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.
A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.
While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.
A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected? The jhkim AIbot strikes again! And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...
How the hell do you read that? I've made no claims that being lesbian was the expected norm. Most Americans in the 1920s are heterosexual, just as most Americans in the 2020s are heterosexual.
Regardless of whether you call them "degenerates" or not, though, gays and lesbians existed in the 1920s and were roughly as common as in the 1970s and in the 2020s. They were probably around 2% of the population - not enough to be expected, but large enough that there were well-reported gay subculture scenes in large urban centers like New York and Berlin with thousands of people participating in events. There are plenty of reports at the time of this, including crusading reformers opposed to gay culture of the time.
The attitudes and likely population of gay and lesbian people varies depending on the location and era, but they've always been around. Gay behavior was the norm in ancient Greece and well-known in ancient Rome. There have been periods of greater social restriction when gay and lesbian behavior had to be hidden more, but it's always been there.
Quote from: jhkim on February 26, 2024, 08:18:25 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on February 26, 2024, 05:57:58 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.
A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.
While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.
A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected? The jhkim AIbot strikes again! And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...
How the hell do you read that? I've made no claims that being lesbian was the expected norm. Most Americans in the 1920s are heterosexual, just as most Americans in the 2020s are heterosexual.
Regardless of whether you call them "degenerates" or not, though, gays and lesbians existed in the 1920s and were roughly as common as in the 1970s and in the 2020s. They were probably around 2% of the population - not enough to be expected, but large enough that there were well-reported gay subculture scenes in large urban centers like New York and Berlin with thousands of people participating in events. There are plenty of reports at the time of this, including crusading reformers opposed to gay culture of the time.
The attitudes and likely population of gay and lesbian people varies depending on the location and era, but they've always been around. Gay behavior was the norm in ancient Greece and well-known in ancient Rome. There have been periods of greater social restriction when gay and lesbian behavior had to be hidden more, but it's always been there.
Thousands of people gathering, in nations of tens and hundreds of millions. Wow. You're right, the twenties were so awash in gay to the point that no RPG setting could be complete without them. Or not.
The fact that you associate Greeks and Romans with "gay behaviors" shows either how historically illiterate you are, or how you're just being your disingenuous self. Neither the Greeks or Romans would even recognize the modern concept of "gay." Sure, pervs of every time period have molested little boys (sometimes even with societal approval), but we're not into normalizing that here...
This is getting off topic, but it is true that there were periods of time that became less morally strict, in all kinds of civilizations and cultures. And just as quickly, those same cultures would shift and become more conservative again.
The 1830s for example were more libertine than the 1880s.
In the US and Europe, the 1920s had become slightly more libertine than the pre-WWI period, only to become more conservative again around when the Great Depression struck.
But in almost all cases, the liberalization was limited to certain areas (mostly large cities: New York, Paris, Berlin, etc) and to certain social classes (the bohemian middle class, and the idle upper classes). That's still true to this day, but the rise in prosperity and mass communication means that the libertine message has hit a much bigger proportion of society. Again, though, there's no reason to think that there's not going to be an end to all of that at some point.
Honestly the "Thank you" vid was fairly inoffensive.
Thanking the customers because without them the product goes nowhere. As Disney is finding out.
Gay behavior was the norm in Ancient Greece.
No
Hey, don't beat me to it, yosemitemike! ;)
As far as them slamming the original game - did you expect otherwise? This is 2024 and people have gone full retard. If you love anything from the 20th century, you're the problem.
Greetings!
I love Metatron! Of course, in his video, he is absolutely right concerning homosexuals in Ancient Greece. Being homosexual was not especially popular, and has never been really celebrated. Most societies, everywhere, have viewed homosexuality as unnatural and a perversion.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK