Starships and starship combat provide a particular kind of challenge for a group RPG:  Many rules systems (realistically!) put down the entirety of the exchange to the skills and tactics of one character ... which usually means one player.  If you want to do a half hour long combat, that means N-1 of your players sits out the mechanics for that long.

Same-same for cyberpunk netrunning, though (because the other-world aspect prevents people from even participating with quips and jibes) often even worse.

A solution that I've seen to this is to have starship combat adjudicated as a team event, rather than a solo one ... more the USS Enterprise (with navigation, weapons, engine room, sensors, each on a different character's skills and tactics) than the Milennium Falcon.

Seems like a solid design to me, and also one that could conceivably work for netrunning.  Gibson, in Neuromancer, very rarely has a Case acting alone.  Usually, he's acting in concert with at least one other team-mate (often more) to do his part in a larger plan.  His rolls cascade into better chances on Molly's attack or stealth rolls, and vice versa, etc., etc.

This seems more common in sci-fi (with its emphasis on alternate modes of adventure) than in fantasy.  Does a sci-fi system have more to gain from such a group-combat module than others?

What kind of experience have people had with these kinds of systems?  Like 'em?  Hate 'em?

Quote from: TonyLBWhat kind of experience have people had with these kinds of systems?  Like 'em?  Hate 'em?

Write 'em.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceWrite 'em.

Yeah, but do you like 'em?

Quote from: TonyLBYeah, but do you like 'em?

Ha! Love 'em!

-clash

I don't like games that focus on a particular character for too long.

If only one character is going to do the flying and shooting, keep space combat brief. Same thing with hacking.

Ideally, for game purposes, all the players could be involved in starship combat, with some type of role. I haven't seen an RPG do this well, but would be very interested if someone could pull it off.

If you're looking for inspiration, check out the board game called Battlestations. It is very RPG-like. Each player makes up a character with skills, special abilities, and equipment. Then you go on a mission, fighting another ship, taking data readings from an asteroid belt or whatever. Each character acts every turn and there is almost always something important that needs to get done. It takes 3 hours or so to run a typical mission for 4 players so it's too in-depth for an RPG, but there are a lot of great principles there that could be easily ported over.

Quote from: TonyLBStarships and starship combat provide a particular kind of challenge for a group RPG:  Many rules systems (realistically!) put down the entirety of the exchange to the skills and tactics of one character ... which usually means one player.  If you want to do a half hour long combat, that means N-1 of your players sits out the mechanics for that long.
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What kind of experience have people had with these kinds of systems?  Like 'em?  Hate 'em?

I’ve seen them in modified Classic Traveller where parts of the combat sequence are tied to skills of the various crew positions.  Pilots use skill to maneuver, Gunners use skills to fire weapons, Navigators or Computers use skills to get computer differential based mods (sensor and EMC checks basically), Engineers use skills to repair damage or maybe get some extra juice out of the engine, those with Ships Tactics can be in command and use skill to get initiative (which can be used to set range).   It works best when each crew slot has more than one thing they can do (even if it is aid in damage control) but they can’t do them all in any one turn.

Quote from: XantherI've seen them in modified Classic Traveller where parts of the combat sequence are tied to skills of the various crew positions.  Pilots use skill to maneuver, Gunners use skills to fire weapons, Navigators or Computers use skills to get computer differential based mods (sensor and EMC checks basically), Engineers use skills to repair damage or maybe get some extra juice out of the engine, those with Ships Tactics can be in command and use skill to get initiative (which can be used to set range).   It works best when each crew slot has more than one thing they can do (even if it is aid in damage control) but they can't do them all in any one turn.

any links?  i'll be doing ship combat in my MT game next week and i was just going to wing it.  two small (400 ton) ships, players would be half the crew of one vessel.

Running a group in a space battle can be a tricky thing. Probably why the first space ship combat in my recent game was a boarding action. Easier to get everyone involved.

Quote from: beeberany links?  i'll be doing ship combat in my MT game next week and i was just going to wing it.  two small (400 ton) ships, players would be half the crew of one vessel.

I'll check CotI, http://travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/
that is where I saw the most fullsome layout of this.

Quote from: XantherI've seen them in modified Classic Traveller where parts of the combat sequence are tied to skills of the various crew positions.  Pilots use skill to maneuver, Gunners use skills to fire weapons, Navigators or Computers use skills to get computer differential based mods (sensor and EMC checks basically), Engineers use skills to repair damage or maybe get some extra juice out of the engine, those with Ships Tactics can be in command and use skill to get initiative (which can be used to set range).   It works best when each crew slot has more than one thing they can do (even if it is aid in damage control) but they can't do them all in any one turn.

This is essentially how I did the StarCluster system, used with setting modifications in Cold Space/FTL Now as well.

=clash

I've thought the idea cool ever since I had heard of 'Battlestations'. I'm glad other games play this way.

GURPS Spaceships does this to, it breaks things up into PC 'tasks', ones like piloting and gunnery and engineering, plus command tasks like tactics and leadership.

As an aside, it would be cool for high seas sail combat, anything attempt that?

Quote from: darAs an aside, it would be cool for high seas sail combat, anything attempt that?

In Harm's Way: A Napoleonic Naval Roleplaying Game.

-clash

Quote from: XantherI've seen them in modified Classic Traveller where parts of the combat sequence are tied to skills of the various crew positions.

As far as ground combat goes, did anyone here ever play the STRIKER 15mm miniature rules?  A friend of mine had them -- and I've since bought a copy for myself -- but we were never really into the tac-sim side of Traveller.  However, I seem to recall that the rules did feature provision for incorporating individual character skills in group combat.

I'll have to dig them out tonight to have a closer look.

!i!

[Edit:  Oh, hey.  And here's a link to STRIKER II, the revised rules that were released for TNE.]

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAs far as ground combat goes, did anyone here ever play the STRIKER 15mm miniature rules?  A friend of mine had them -- and I've since bought a copy for myself -- but we were never really into the tac-sim side of Traveller.  However, I seem to recall that the rules did feature provision for incorporating individual character skills in group combat.

I'll have to dig them out tonight to have a closer look.

!i!

[Edit:  Oh, hey.  And here's a link to STRIKER II, the revised rules that were released for TNE.]

I have them. I have never used them, and haven't looked at them in decades.

-clash

We used them only for the vehicle design rules, complementing the ship design rules from Book 5: High Guard.  The tac-sim rules might be worth something now that I'm older and fiddlier.

!i!