Grimm Dark vs. Gonzo: A Poll

Marleycat · April 03, 2012, 12:35:02 AM

You liked the Dune movie? Even better than the book no less? Wow, at least the SCYFY channel's rendition was far truer to the books and didn't make me retch in disgust.

crkrueger · April 03, 2012, 01:15:56 AM

There's a difference between Dark and Grim and "Grimdark". Grimdark as a term really only applies to 40k. There might be other settings that have some aspects of Grimdark, but only 40k has them all.

Simlasa · April 03, 2012, 01:19:59 AM

Quote from: Marleycat;526144You liked the Dune movie? Even better than the book no less? Wow, at least the SCYFY channel's rendition was far truer to the books and didn't make me retch in disgust.

Actually, I didn't like the books much at all. Might have been the time and the place I read them... maybe not. I remember thinking they were kind of dull.
Whatever it was they hit me the wrong way... but when I saw Lynch's version (fucked as it was by Dino's meddling) I was amazed. It didn't bother me at all that they'd veered off from the books (didn't bother me about LOTR either).
A case where the pictures on the screen were MUCH more interesting than the ones in my head.

If only the Jodorowsky version had gotten made... that would have been heavenly.

James Gillen · April 03, 2012, 03:07:47 AM

Quote from: Géza Echs;525867I tend to prefer a mix of both - "gonzo" in the Hunter S. Thompson sense is already fairly grim and dark. But not veering too far into either end of the spectrum. Neither too zany or too 40K-at-its-worst-moments-of-fluff dark.

Dark Gonzo!!!!

Spinachcat · April 03, 2012, 05:05:17 AM

Grimm Gonzo!!!

I've never played a Grimdark RPG that didn't go gonzo pretty damn fast. And that's why I love them.

Marleycat · April 03, 2012, 09:09:07 AM

Quote from: Simlasa;526151Actually, I didn't like the books much at all. Might have been the time and the place I read them... maybe not. I remember thinking they were kind of dull.
Whatever it was they hit me the wrong way... but when I saw Lynch's version (fucked as it was by Dino's meddling) I was amazed. It didn't bother me at all that they'd veered off from the books (didn't bother me about LOTR either).
A case where the pictures on the screen were MUCH more interesting than the ones in my head.

If only the Jodorowsky version had gotten made... that would have been heavenly.

Well that's cool because I know that I tend to be dissatisfied with any film adaptions of books I like. Nobody can match the weirdness in my head so I'm not overly upset with movies that do this except in a few cases.

beeber · April 03, 2012, 11:24:36 AM

Quote from: The Butcher;525888My own subjective definitions for both terms.

Grimdark is one of several possible moods a game can focus on. It's a good mood to have because great games and great players thrive on adversity, and a world nthat's gone to the crapper should be a dangerous place that's got it in spades.

Gonzo is the idea that anything can happen. Your elf ranger fights a robot and loots a ray gun. The mysterious cargo, contracted by the oddly-accented, strangely pale broker, now sitting on your space trader's hold is actually a vampire. Your superhero squares off against Cthulhu. Your Jedi rip-off psionic knight fights alongside a dragon and a steroid-addicted super-soldier against godless jackbooted thugs hellbent on reclaiming a post-apocalyptic, magic-blasted Earth.

I've been playing "focused", not necessarily grimdark, games for some time now. I haven't unleashed a full-on gonzo treatment on my players for some time now (I don't think Day After Ragnarok counts; the setting is ostensibly gonzo, but our campaign was very much focused on a "British superspies vs. occult Nazis and their horrors" feel).

The way I see it, gonzo is a tricky balance to pull. You want to have an "anything goes" feel without devolving into general silliness, but you don't want to be too restrictive. The easiest way to do this is to show PCs that actions have consequences. You want to ride a dinosaur? Go ahead, but consider for a moment the nightmarish logistics of caring for and feeding one in the long haul (or don't, if you want to run with it).

Grimdark is easier, I think; just make sure that PCs stand a fighting chance, while at the same time driving home that the world they share with their foes is a fucked-up place. Make sure to drive home that it's going to be difficult to hold on to their convictions, let alone change the world; if Sauron's got the Ring, they'll have to try and take Middle-Earth back, one orc at a time. Just don't rob them of the chance if and when they rise up to the task at hand with resolve and ingenuity.

that reminds me, the only other game i could consider gonzo besides rifts, would be gurps IOU.

Drohem · April 03, 2012, 11:39:28 AM

As a general rule, I prefer gritty over gonzo 99% of the time. Although, the two concepts don't have to be mutually exclusive; i.e., I could run a 'gritty' game even in a high fantasy setting or space opera setting. I think that a couple of keys to a successful gritty game is resource management by the GM and momentum of the game world. Resources, which are vital to survival, should be difficult for the characters to obtain, and the game world should not slow down so that the characters have to pick and choose their down time carefully.

thedungeondelver · April 03, 2012, 01:24:22 PM

Grimdark is one step away from Misery Tourism which I can't stand in an RPG.

Gonzo is one step away from Funhouse Dungeon, which I also cannot stand in an RPG (it is bigger than a "dungeon", but the metaphor stands).

I take the middle path. A Middle-Earth path, if you will. Not in that I place my campaigns or prefer to game in a ME setting, just that it tends to be like that. Not too dark, not too goofy.

Dodger · April 03, 2012, 02:24:15 PM

Grimdark with dark humour.

thedungeondelver · April 03, 2012, 03:31:40 PM

Quote from: Dodger;526380Grimdark with dark humour.

WHFRP 1e, then.

Dodger · April 03, 2012, 03:38:33 PM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;526416WHFRP 1e, then.

And 2e.

Aos · April 03, 2012, 06:19:07 PM

Metal- which is like gonzo done with a straight face, some wacky elements, lots of tits, and some sort of logical underpinning.

J Arcane · April 03, 2012, 06:37:18 PM

In my new game, there is a collapsible jet-bike that fits into a skull-shaped belt buckle.

JamesV · April 03, 2012, 07:47:25 PM

Quote from: J Arcane;526500In my new game, there is a collapsible jet-bike that fits into a skull-shaped belt buckle.

Is the bike or buckle possessed by a demon? That would totally be Grimmzo.

Or is is GonDark?