Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 11:19:37 PM

Quote from: SHARK on May 20, 2024, 11:07:11 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Greetings!

Yes, my friend, you are quite right. It is very disgusting. Corrupt, filthy degeneracy should not be promoted or celebrated, but steadfastly and ruthlessly condemned.

WOTC and sodomites like Crawford are continually committed to and seeking to normalize their corrupt degeneracy through what they include in the game books, and how they go about framing it. WOTC and degenerates should be opposed and criticized everywhere, tirelessly. Let the degenerates burn! The groomers are coming out everywhere in society, seeking to promote their disgusting, degenerate ways.

And, of course, we can see the reprobate jello-brained helpers that eagerly seek to provide support for the degenerates.

WOTC will obviously fill Greyhawk with corruption and degeneracy. Crawford has as much explicitly said so. That is what WOTC does now. That is who WOTC is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK again shows his lack of Christian values and failed committment to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of whether they are different from him.

Gay people that make games want to put gay characters into their products of their make-believe game worlds. Somehow, internet tough guys everywhere are threatened and have to buck up to protect...somebody...from this great evil.

Greetings!

Yeah, I am not a Rainbow Barney-kind of heretic "Christian" popular in many apostate churches nowadays. I'm the Old School kind of Christian. DEUS VULT.

The gays have Thirsty Sword Lesbians! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:05:40 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 06:32:31 PMMaybe so, but the new version will be specifically written to include every "D&D"ism in the core books.

"Ever since we brought our adventure design fully back in-house," he said, "all of our new adventures contain LGBT characters. This is true of our next adventure, Tomb of Annihilation, and it will be true of our stories after that."

1: They already tried that and mostly failed with Ghosts of Saltmash. The 5e Greyhawk module.
 
2: Except that it was so feeble and meaningless. Its a throwaway sentence in a single paragraph that you can easily miss.

Greetings!

Yeah, Omega. Ghosts of Saltmarsh was pretty minimalistic. I highly doubt that WOTC is going to do anything more than a token effort. If they somehow manage to do more, they will of course seek to fuck it up entirely, just like Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Dragonlance. Hell, they have even fucked up Forgotten Realms! *Laughing* As wacky as Forgotten Realms has been forever, WOTC said, "Hold my beer!"

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:29:20 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

It is not the presence that is the problem. Its the agenda behind it being there.

Same with minorities and combat wheelchairs. No one would give a flying fuck if it was being done for anything other than the woke agenda.

So you oppose their motivations (which you may not completely understand) by opposing their actions (which you concede are not a problem).

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:36:40 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 10:59:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 20, 2024, 10:53:11 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMHaving a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

Disgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals. And yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on beig hateful.

Out of curiosity, is there any objection to a married gay couple in a D&D module that you would accept as not being homophobic and/or "hateful"?

Probably not, but what's your hypothetical objection? I'm willing to discuss it.

I object when it is just there to check a box on a score card. Its fucking demeaning.

I object when it is there to push a false agenda. Also demeaning.

I object when it is just a meaningless insertion.

I object when it is a ham-handed insertion.

If you think any of that makes me a homophobe then maybe you need to look in a mirror.

How many LGBTQ people have you spoken to about this (FWIW, I've only spoken to three in person)? How do they view it? From your perspective, it is demeaning or meaningless, but you are not likely to be one of the ones they are doing it for. Even taking a cynical view, they (the writers) are doing it for themselves, and yet it still doesn't meaningfully damage the "D&D-ness" of the product. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things I don't care for in D&D (any version), but the presence of a married gay couple is nowhere on my list because it doesn't alter the gameplay one bit.

Quote from: SHARK on May 21, 2024, 12:38:16 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 11:19:37 PM

Quote from: SHARK on May 20, 2024, 11:07:11 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Greetings!

Yes, my friend, you are quite right. It is very disgusting. Corrupt, filthy degeneracy should not be promoted or celebrated, but steadfastly and ruthlessly condemned.

WOTC and sodomites like Crawford are continually committed to and seeking to normalize their corrupt degeneracy through what they include in the game books, and how they go about framing it. WOTC and degenerates should be opposed and criticized everywhere, tirelessly. Let the degenerates burn! The groomers are coming out everywhere in society, seeking to promote their disgusting, degenerate ways.

And, of course, we can see the reprobate jello-brained helpers that eagerly seek to provide support for the degenerates.

WOTC will obviously fill Greyhawk with corruption and degeneracy. Crawford has as much explicitly said so. That is what WOTC does now. That is who WOTC is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

SHARK again shows his lack of Christian values and failed committment to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of whether they are different from him.

Gay people that make games want to put gay characters into their products of their make-believe game worlds. Somehow, internet tough guys everywhere are threatened and have to buck up to protect...somebody...from this great evil.

Greetings!

Yeah, I am not a Rainbow Barney-kind of heretic "Christian" popular in many apostate churches nowadays. I'm the Old School kind of Christian. DEUS VULT.

The gays have Thirsty Sword Lesbians! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Really? You're going to throw out Deus vult--a line now strongly associated with white supremacy and hate groups--as your response?

OK, so you're that type of Christian...

You just keep on wondering why so many of the sensible Christians fall into your "apostates" box as you go further down your crazy-ass rabbit hole.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMHaving a married gay couple does not make a setting "look like a combination of Downtown L.A., and an SF pride parade" unless you already have a very warped view of reality.

All part and parcel of the postmodern cultural marxist ideology that has been infecting western civilization for decades.

We have not failed to notice that DEI, ESG,"representation", inclusion, diversity, and the LGBTQP groomer movements are all supported hand in glove by the same groups.

And I simply cannot take any statement about having a "warped view of reality" seriously from someone with no disgust reflex.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMDisgust is not fear, but there are close associations in how the brain processes the two. However, that's a moot point because the common use of the term homophobia is not specifically tied to fear, but to a range of prejudicial behaviors against homosexuals.

Sorry, your postmodern Foucaultian word salad will not work here. You don't get to change the meaning of words.

Phobia
noun
1: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.


The normal disgust towards homosexuality is literally like seeing maggots:
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-34532-001

Being disgusted at seeing maggots is neither extreme nor irrational. It is a normal and healthy reaction of wanting nothing to do with gross maggots. Or faggotry.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 09:54:05 PMAnd yes, by your own words, you appear quite homophobic to me. Beyond that, you seem to be the one with a fixation on being hateful.

Like clockwork, class will tell.

Constantly using rhetoric to frame those that disagree with you as somehow fearful and hateful people simply proves my point...

You make no secret of what you really think.


What I really feel is a Great Sadness.

That entire generations of people have been robbed of the mental and spiritual help that they needed all because much of our our wider culture has turn its back on Christian morality, and instead embraced decadence and depravity as its cardinal virtues.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 11:19:37 PMSHARK again shows his lack of Christian values and failed commitment to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of whether they are different from him.

You know nothing of Christian values.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a choose your own adventure novel. And God is very clear on the subject of homosexual relations.


Also - Look kids, a leftist is trying to use the phrase: "...failed commitment to protect the rights of all Americans" as a rhetorical hammer...

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 11:19:37 PMGay people that make games want to put gay characters into their products of their make-believe game worlds.

They are free to do so.

Others are also free to point out degeneracy when they see it.

That is how freedom works.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 11:19:37 PMSomehow, ... guys everywhere ... have to buck up to protect...from this great evil.

*FIST BUMPS SHARK*

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:05:40 AM1: They already tried that and mostly failed with Ghosts of Saltmash. The 5e Greyhawk module.
 
2: Except that it was so feeble and meaningless. Its a throwaway sentence in a single paragraph that you can easily miss.

That's how incremental entryism works. At first it is something "meaningless", that you can just ignore. Then it will be something else small, and so on.

It may take some time, but they have not only shown that they will keep trying; They have openly said so.


Wotc is a lost cause. Anyone hoping for change there is delusional.

Luckily there are plenty of ways to play "D&D" without giving money to people that hate you.

Quote from: Omega on May 20, 2024, 02:35:39 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2024, 04:08:25 AMIf you think that the only reason that D&D book sales has dropped is because a new edition is coming out and not that the OGL has been threatened by WotC,

that the latest modules were pandering crap (magical coffee shop? WTF?),

that what was a game is now being pushed as a lifestyle brand (D&D fashion and shoes anybody?)

1: Sales have dropped for alot of reasons. The OGL blowup is a footnote now. Poor product is a more telling problem.

2: There is no such module other than what ammounts to a fan made one by one of the staff. Theres alot worse on DM's Guild and people think ALL of that is "official". The problem is sadly more mundane. wotc writers are fucking lazy and cant be dicked to actually do the job they were hired for. Graduates from the  White Wolf school of failure. "oh we didnt bother to write that rule. The players will do it for us!"

3: This again? No. wotc is not pushing D&D as a lifestyle. They are too incompetent for that. Fan made mercandise and 3rd party items have been around since the TSR days. D&D WOODBURNING SET? D&D CANDY? O-M-G!!! TSR is for making teh Lifestylez!!!111!!!. wotc has done just short of nothing aside from trying to monetize fan crafts.

x: wotc has put out one lacklustre product after another Spelljanner bombed, barely anyone is talking about Planescape, the last few modules aside from Wild Beyond the Witchlight have been messes and even Witchlight needs work because the writers couldnt be dicked to do their job. Then there's Phandelver and Below which is so fucking incoherent I'm surprised anyones actually been able to run it.

And now apparently they want to mess with D&D Beyond and just this month removed the ability to buy single items from a book instead of the whole book. This on top of them removing older books from the shop. Rumor is that next to go will be the ability to post and share your own works.

Add on an unwanted new edition that wotc insists is really real not a new edition! A new edition that looks to totally overhaul things and relegate the DM to storytelling slaves.

Is it any wonder sales are down?

Omega, WotC has made intellectual property icon use contracts with Converse and LEGO. That is significantly more than just monetizing fan crafts.

Hell, I'll just let Morrus and Scott Kurtz say it along with Clownfish TV.

https://x.com/Morrus/status/1735811716909277209

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:29:20 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

It is not the presence that is the problem. Its the agenda behind it being there.

Same with minorities and combat wheelchairs. No one would give a flying fuck if it was being done for anything other than the woke agenda.

Quote from: Omega on May 21, 2024, 12:36:40 AMI object when it is just there to check a box on a score card. Its fucking demeaning.

I object when it is there to push a false agenda. Also demeaning.

I object when it is just a meaningless insertion.

I object when it is a ham-handed insertion.

If you think any of that makes me a homophobe then maybe you need to look in a mirror.

^^This^^

It isn't that there are gay characters or different races. It is that they are being inserted as part of some woke DEI strategy to appease the shareholders of Hasbro so that Blackrock favors them with investment.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 21, 2024, 01:22:49 AMSorry, your postmodern Foucaultian word salad will not work here. You don't get to change the meaning of words.

Phobia
noun
1: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.

Educate yourself so you don't look foolish: Search for the definition of homophobia.

Here are some results:

Merriam-Webster: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people

Dictionary.com: an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of gay sexual orientation or gay people.

Caimbridge Dictionary: harmful or unfair things a person does based on a fear or dislike of gay people or queer people

Oxford Reference: Negative attitudes towards homosexual people and homosexuality which may be manifested in discrimination, hostile behaviour, or hate crimes. The term was adopted in 1972 by George Weinberg (b.1935), an American psychologist. The use of 'phobia' has been criticized as implying a pathological and irrational fear rather than a form of prejudice analogous to racism.

Did you notice that last part? Homophobia is NOT a phobia as the term is used in psychology, much as hydrophobic substances are not afraid of water.

So, looking at how the word homophobic is actually meant to be used, look back at your posts and understand why you come off as homophobic.

Now, on Christian values, we can have a long talk. Love, compassion, peace, and kindness are among the most important values, and homophobia is opposed to all of these values.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 21, 2024, 01:22:49 AMSorry, your postmodern Foucaultian word salad will not work here. You don't get to change the meaning of words.

Phobia
noun
1: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.

Educate yourself so you don't look foolish: Search for the definition of homophobia.


Here are some results:
Merriam-Webster: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
Dictionary.com: an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of gay sexual orientation or gay people.
Caimbridge Dictionary: harmful or unfair things a person does based on a fear or dislike of gay people or queer people

Not relevant when discussing words invented for political purposes.  "Xphobia" means "fear of X", and applying certain political concepts there is an failed attempt to create a false definition that opposition to whatever X is being pushed is a character flaw (specifically, irrational fear of).  That's why these terms were chosen.
This is the truth, no matter how many communists, professors, media experts, or dictionaries say otherwise.  That's just a pile of liars, and it doesn't matter how decorated they are or how many bullets they'll shoot you with for pointing it out.  A is A.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 20, 2024, 07:28:37 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 06:37:00 PMThe presence of explicitly gay characters in a D&D setting does not make it "Not D&D" in any appreciable way. How does having them in there hurt the product?

Because it's disgusting.

Why would anyone want disgusting content in their rpg?

The people at wotc hate everyone that does not like the continual insertion of disgusting gay content in rpg's.

And I won't give money to people that hate me.

Your personal weirdness isn't everyone else's issue. America, and most modern nations, do not have that "it's disgusting" hangup you have about this issue. There are nations which mirror your view better, like some Islamic extremist ones, but the US isn't one of them and WOTC is in the US and selling to a primary US audience. So they, and we, don't need to worry about your weird hangups about the gender that people are attracted to.

Quote from: Venka on May 21, 2024, 01:49:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 21, 2024, 01:22:49 AMSorry, your postmodern Foucaultian word salad will not work here. You don't get to change the meaning of words.

Phobia
noun
1: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.

Educate yourself so you don't look foolish: Search for the definition of homophobia.


Here are some results:
Merriam-Webster: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people
Dictionary.com: an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of gay sexual orientation or gay people.
Caimbridge Dictionary: harmful or unfair things a person does based on a fear or dislike of gay people or queer people

Not relevant when discussing words invented for political purposes.  "Xphobia" means "fear of X", and applying certain political concepts there is an failed attempt to create a false definition that opposition to whatever X is being pushed is a character flaw (specifically, irrational fear of).  That's why these terms were chosen.
This is the truth, no matter how many communists, professors, media experts, or dictionaries say otherwise.  That's just a pile of liars, and it doesn't matter how decorated they are or how many bullets they'll shoot you with for pointing it out.  A is A.

You're not arguing against something brand new here. The definition was given from 1972 (and arguably as early as 1965). You've had more than a half-century to come to terms with it.

Check it out, on the left is 1E Greyhawk and on the right is new and improved 6E Greyhawk!  See, WotC is trying, everyone give WotC a hug and a cookie as they cross the finish line with the other retards.

FYI: There is a Quote Selected text function now guys.

Highlight the text by dragging over it, and the option appears by the quote function.

Just throwing that out there...

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AMEducate yourself so you don't look foolish: Search for the definition of homophobia.

LOL.

You tried to say that this definition was not really correct:

Phobia
noun
1: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.


Literally the first "counter example" you posted:

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AMHere are some results:
Merriam-Webster: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people

This is not even a challenge.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AMSo, looking at how the word homophobic is actually meant to be used, look back at your posts and understand why you come off as homophobic.

I don't care.

Because all I'm doing is pointing out your use of the word "Homophobic" is just rhetorical framing to paint those that disagree with you as fearful and hateful Bad People.

Your Foucaultian semantics aren't fooling anyone.

People that reject homosexuality are not in the wrong.

Those that promote it are.

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 21, 2024, 01:42:12 AMNow, on Christian values, we can have a long talk. Love, compassion, peace, and kindness are among the most important values, and homophobia is opposed to all of these values.

ROTFL!! You put this out there like I've never seen this tactic before.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a choose your own adventure novel.

God is very clear on the subject of homosexual relations:

QuoteLeviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The new Testament backs this up:

QuoteMatthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this cause God a gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural
use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their a lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Christianity completely rejects homosexual behavior as it is an Unnatural Sin.

Thus, by your own standards, Christianity is "homophobic":

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 20, 2024, 10:59:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 20, 2024, 10:53:11 PMOut of curiosity, is there any objection to a married gay couple in a D&D module that you would accept as not being homophobic and/or "hateful"?

Probably not, but what's your hypothetical objection? I'm willing to discuss it.

To bring this back to RPG's:

How does having gay NPC's presented as a good and normal thing hurt the product?

1: It's gross. Which is the healthy, natural, and normal response.

2: Because Wotc is openly trying to normalize an Unnatural Sin as a good and acceptable lifestyle.

So it is only natural that I would object to having content in my game books whose explicit purpose is to normalize an unnatural sinful lifestyle as something normal and good, when it most certainly is neither.


As SHARK has said:

Quote from: SHARK on May 20, 2024, 11:07:11 PMWOTC and sodomites like Crawford are continually committed to and seeking to normalize their corrupt degeneracy through what they include in the game books, and how they go about framing it.

Thus it is morally good and right that we object to ideologically degenerate content being put into gaming books.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 21, 2024, 04:33:36 PMFYI: There is a Quote Selected text function now guys.

Highlight the text by dragging over it, and the option appears by the quote function.

Just throwing that out there...

Hey cool, I didn't know that. Thanks!