Have you ever had a good or bad interaction online or in person that changed your perception of the company?

This comes up because my gaming circle was discussing our Gen Con plans today. I'm not sure if anyone remembers my write up from last year, but the Kenzer booth was one place everyone was looking forward to visiting. At the time, we had two GMs running HackMaster games, and a pretty enthusiastic player base.

So our first friend goes to the booth. Not a lot of folks around, tries talking to the booth personnel. One of the guys is fiddling with his phone, barely speaking or answering his questions. The other guy, not on his phone, seems completely disinterested in asking any questions.

We are told this, but it doesn't really seem like Kenzer. We like Kenzer. We buy Kenzer's stuff. Kenzer's good people, right? So the other GM heads over there a bit later (he had yet to hear this story), and is completely blown off. He asks about products, and they sort of just point to the table. Again, not a huge crowd, nothing going on that would seem to indicate that he's interrupting anything of consequence. He's just a big fan, a guy who purchased and runs their flagship game, trying to talk to them about what's new. This is not the sort of mouthbreather who occupies real estate in front of a booth for 3 hours, telling booth personnel about his NPCs and his house rules. He's a good guy, a fan, just trying to see what they have going on.

This is surprising when it is relayed to the rest of our group. We now have two different gamers, who did not talk to each other about it beforehand, having the same unfortunate experience at the Kenzer booth. So, the rest of us head over there the next morning of the convention. Hey, maybe it was a bad day, maybe they were stressed. Not fun for us, but it happens.

So, we walk over to the Kenzer booth, where a rather morose individual does not greet us, but rather stands there, arms crossed, giving monosyllabic, clipped answers to anything we ask. I can't speak for anyone else but our gaming circle, but it was the worst treatment and interaction with customers we saw at any booth. Did we come at a bad time, or catch them after some bad news? Maybe, but it doesn't make it a good experience for us.

It stinks, because I really love KotDT, and I think Kenzer makes some pretty cool stuff. But that was a seriously uncool move towards some of their bigger fans. One of the individuals in question mentioned it on their forum or in other feedback, and they seemed pretty ambivalent about the whole thing. It left a pretty bad taste in everyone's mouth. We have a backlog of games that includes Pathfinder, Castles & Crusades, Rifts, Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Supers!, Traveller, StarCluster 3, Two-Fisted Tales, Call of Cthulhu, and Rolemaster. We don't *need* to be fans of KenzerCo, as much as I love their comics.

So I'm wondering—has anyone had a good or bad experience that changed their perception of a gaming figure or company, in person or online?

Was one of the guys Kenzer himself? If not, they were probably low-level guys roped into working the convention. Let's face it, the RPG hobby attracts a lot of people who don't have the best social skills. And working in the industry is very low-paying. So unless they're higher-ups, the people working these things are the equivalent of especially sullen Staples clerks.

Would it be nice if companies could hire eager, motivated employees with some aptitude for marketing? Sure. But most of them operate on a shoe-string budget. You get what you pay for.

As for good experiences, I once called the Wizard's Attic about some Issaries Glorantha books, and got put through to Greg Stafford himself (who I had no idea was associated with the store). He chatted with me on the phone for about 20 minutes, and by the end I was sold on picking up Hero Wars.

Haffrung is right about not blaming the roped-in for their behavior.  But...

Yeah I make purchasing decisions based on stuff like this all the time.  I'll buy stuff I don't need at prices higher than I should to support a good vendor.  I will burn stuff in a barrel, figuratively at least, over a bad experience.

So I blame the company for not putting their best foot forward.  But I don't know if it would go much further.

In your case I would probably complain to the company to see if they cared.  If I got an "oh no!" type response, I would let it go.  If the complaint vector also resulted in something negative....

Quote from: Haffrung;749571So unless they're higher-ups, the people working these things are the equivalent of especially sullen Staples clerks.

Quote from: mcbobbo;749578I'll buy stuff I don't need at prices higher than I should to support a good vendor.  I will burn stuff in a barrel, figuratively at least, over a bad experience.

Unfortunate, but not surprising at all.

Even worse is when such employees know very little to nothing about the merchandise the store is selling.  If the clerks know next to nothing, then there's not much purpose anymore in shopping at such offline bricks-and-mortar stores, other than buying stuff at the lowest prices.  (These days some stuff is much less expensive online).

I spent several years working Con sales tables.

It made me leave the hobby for 15 years.

Quote from: Old Geezer;749593I spent several years working Con sales tables.

It made me leave the hobby for 15 years.

I've worked tables at a few cons, and it's difficult.  I mean, you try to be friendly and welcoming to each person who comes up, and it's not their fault, nor do they have any idea of the person you just got done dealing with.

But it's hard when you have people come up to and insist on getting all up in your personal space, smelling like cat piss, and talking about inappropriate topics who never get the hint to leave.  Or those people who stop by just to tell you that they could have done a much better job than you, and start ranting obsessively about their great game they have scrawled on napkins, and if they could only get a company to notice them they would be a huge success.

When you have someone who just drove you to your wits end, it is a skill to be able to not take it out on the next person, and that includes not being as approachable as you should be.

Do we feel RPG cons are different than other types of booth floors?  Becuase they seem to do it okay.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;749595But it's hard when you have people come up to and insist on getting all up in your personal space, smelling like cat piss, and talking about inappropriate topics who never get the hint to leave.  Or those people who stop by just to tell you that they could have done a much better job than you, and start ranting obsessively about their great game they have scrawled on napkins, and if they could only get a company to notice them they would be a huge success.

Sounds similar to the type of conversations that customer service phone-line workers get all the time.  Especially at a telephone or cable company.

Quote from: mcbobbo;749597Do we feel RPG cons are different than other types of booth floors?

No different than most other geeky/nerdy type of conventions.  (ie. Comic books, sci-fi, etc ...).

Back in '90 and '91 I played the Play-By-Mail game Blood Pit (a gladiator combat game) from Emprise Game Systems. I was one of their playtesters and enjoyed it quite a bit. I graduated college at the end of '91 and took an offer from Emprise's boss Jim Townsend to move out to Vancouver, WA and work for the company. It seemed like a wacky and fun thing to do and may have been my big break into the gaming industry. I was told we'd be running all sorts of games, making new ones, working as partners and having a ball.

When I arrived things weren't quite as they were sold to me. Instead of running 3-4 successful games and designing new ones Blood Pit was pretty much all we had. Jim is one of the smartest guys I've met, he can learn just about anything faster than most. But he's dismissive of most people, higher education and hard work in general. Months passed by and nothing new happened. Eventually we did an expansion to Blood Pit which included new races and magic but it wasn't enough and we kept losing players. Jim didn't care much about my opinions, concerns or skills and the house wasn't the party central I had expected. We rarely had friends over, I had to travel into Portland to find a group to game with.

Through '92 and into '93 Blood Pit petered out, we took other jobs to pay the bills. Jim and the co-owner of the company, Lennart, sold Emprise to the Wieck brothers at White Wolf. We packed up a U-haul truck and drove to Georgia. Jim went to work for WW doing their computer network. Despite being an avid gamer and having a degree in writing the Wiecks had no use for me so I left for Florida. Haven't seen any of them since. I have no idea where Jim is today.

Blood Pit is now just a free online game run each Friday.

Just a sad, disappointing experience. I had such high hopes for a great time but it came crashing down due to ego and laziness. Did pop my illusions about what big-time gamer guys are like. Yeah, yeah, I know, everyone is different. I'm sure the heads of most companies aren't like Jim. But still...

Quote from: ggroy;749600Sounds similar to the type of conversations that customer service phone-line workers get all the time.  Especially at a telephone or cable company.

I worked for a call center that handled Internet sign up and problems for Bell South. Oh lordy, the calls I had. The woman who tried to talk while holding a screaming baby inches from the phone, the woman who wanted to sign up for Internet service while in the midst of preparing dinner. The people who have no idea what a browser is, or had none on their 10 year old computer. People who want me to hold their hand as they look at a dozen web pages and explain what every box and link means. The guy who needed help setting up a half dozen email accounts all with aliases. The lady who took 12 minutes setting up an Internet account then immediately cancels it because she's just not sure if she wants or needs it.

And I got to dreading calls from certain states. Alabama! Louisiana! Most Southerners shouldn't be allowed to have a computer. The average education level in Alabama must be 4th grade, they shouldn't even have electricity.

Meanwhile my bosses are telling me to lie to the customers and get the call over quickly to reduce average call time (the most important thing in the call center industry.) As if I have any control over the stupidity level of my callers. Yes sir, I wish I could have hung up five minutes ago but this caller's machine is still junk and he's not understanding what I'm telling him.

That was a job I hope I never have to do again.

Quote from: Doughdee222;749615I worked for a call center that handled Internet sign up and problems for Bell South. Oh lordy, the calls I had. The woman who tried to talk while holding a screaming baby inches from the phone, the woman who wanted to sign up for Internet service while in the midst of preparing dinner. The people who have no idea what a browser is, or had none on their 10 year old computer. People who want me to hold their hand as they look at a dozen web pages and explain what every box and link means. The guy who needed help setting up a half dozen email accounts all with aliases. The lady who took 12 minutes setting up an Internet account then immediately cancels it because she's just not sure if she wants or needs it.

And I got to dreading calls from certain states. Alabama! Louisiana! Most Southerners shouldn't be allowed to have a computer. The average education level in Alabama must be 4th grade, they shouldn't even have electricity.

Meanwhile my bosses are telling me to lie to the customers and get the call over quickly to reduce average call time (the most important thing in the call center industry.) As if I have any control over the stupidity level of my callers. Yes sir, I wish I could have hung up five minutes ago but this caller's machine is still junk and he's not understanding what I'm telling him.

That was a job I hope I never have to do again.

I feel your pain.  When I first got out of the military, I worked in a call center.  People taking a dump while on the phone, or even having sex.  Who calls their company when they are having sex?

And lots of idiots.  Lots of them.

Quote from: Old Geezer;749593I spent several years working Con sales tables.

It made me leave the hobby for 15 years.

Yup, same... One of the reasons I stopped going to anime conventions... Though, when I was still working Anime conventions the regular customers in the dealer rooms were creepy as fuck... Now, most Anime cons are wall to wall hot chicks... Though sadly, all under age...


And no, it isn't limited to RPG cons...



EDIT: Oddly, this didn't sound so creepy in my head...

The single worst experience I've ever had in roleplaying was trying to buy "Polaris: Chivalric Tragedy at Utmost North" from its author, Ben Lehman. Nearly two months after paying - through his personal website - and repeated emails to him; I had no book, no communication, nothing.

Then the Internet explodes when he writes this viscous hoop-la (perhaps some of you remember it) aimed at some game company (Margaret Weis, if I remember?) about them not paying people for their work.

I go out of my way to support independent game designers, to make sure the money is going back to the creator specifically, and the guy couldn't even be bothered to keep his own commitments.

Finally I hunted him down on facebook - that's what it took. He replied a few days later saying that "things have been pretty crazy lately" and how he'd been busy. In the end he wouldn't even send the book to me, he just gave me a refund. And I still don't have a copy of the stupid game.

The whole thing made me perhaps more bitter than the incident deserves, and while I really do what to support small businesses and the hobby itself, it has made me substantially less likely to trust small RPG companies.

//Panjumanju

Creative Mountain Games can go suck a dick!!

Over on ENworld years ago some posters decided to build a dungeon a Cooperative dungeon based on a simple map and guide lines.

So we did.

I did all the Editing and compiling of the dungeons because it was fun. I didn't do the english/grammar part just all the mechanical work.  Fleshing a ton of crap out making sure everything matched up. I was proud of my work and considered going professional but decided It just wasn't for me.

Here is the link to getting them for free.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/28876/Adventures-The-Cooperative-Dungeon-Collection-01--04?manufacturers_id=457&it=1


Well on the 4th one I disagreed with something the head of CMG did or said on his forums. So he booted me off the forum and told me I wasn't cutting the mustard and hadn't done what I promised. Considering just a few days before I had submitted my final draft of the dungeon with lots of work involved in it. I wonder how I wasn't doing my job (For free no less). Well when I mentioned it on Enworld they shut me off and said my complaints had little to do with Enworld, well other than it was a fucking Enworld based product, done completely on the boards from poster submissions. So I got no credit at all for all the work.

CMG said they had to toss my edits and start over from scratch. Funny how when they released the Module, it had all my edits including things I specifically put in to add flavor and to make sense. Things so specific no one else could have done it by coincidence.

Of course when he shoved me off the product I had razed and burned my edits and didn't have proof he had stolen my work without credit. But in the end it was a free project that I volunteered for and all I wanted was the credit for my hard work. I got crapped on.

Shouldn't matter but after all those years still pisses me off.

Thanks for the ranting room