I really badly want to do a campaign in the style of The Gentleman Bastards series (The Lies of Locke Lamorra) and Six of Crows and trying to choose the very best system and setting that will click with me. 

Some contenders are Blades in the Dark, Dishonored, Leverage.

What system and setting do you all prefer? What would you choose?

Blades in the Dark is perfect for a criminal heist campaign...it is a more mechanically heavy system then the PbtA system it is based on. It pulls in the flashback mechanic from Leverage. You can tweak the default setting to be that of Locke Lamora pretty easily.

Another vote for Blades in the Dark. We had a memorable campaign in it. The only thing that makes me frown a bit is the setting, too edgy-grimdark for my tastes.

Quote from: Itachi on February 17, 2022, 12:28:26 PM
Another vote for Blades in the Dark. We had a memorable campaign in it. The only thing that makes me frown a bit is the setting, too edgy-grimdark for my tastes.

When I first read it, my reaction was "A Shattered sun?" Don't they understand science?

Then I realized how woke the company is, and it all came together.

That said, there are some elements to the game I like. I've yet to run it, since the play style feels too regimented to me, and my play style is very loose.

Quote from: Godsmonkey on February 17, 2022, 12:33:30 PM

Quote from: Itachi on February 17, 2022, 12:28:26 PM
Another vote for Blades in the Dark. We had a memorable campaign in it. The only thing that makes me frown a bit is the setting, too edgy-grimdark for my tastes.

The game is not designed by Evil Hat, they just distribute it.  John Harper designed the game.

When I first read it, my reaction was "A Shattered sun?" Don't they understand science?

Then I realized how woke the company is, and it all came together.

That said, there are some elements to the game I like. I've yet to run it, since the play style feels too regimented to me, and my play style is very loose.

I really liked Blades in the Dark when I played it.  It's a lot more freeform than people give it credit for, but it does reinforce a specific genre/style of play.  Most things outside of the heist itself will have to be winged by the GM.

Dishonored is also a good option but it might be a little too tailored to its default setting.  While I like the 2d20 system, especially this version of it, I know others aren't a fan of the metacurrency in it.

There are also a large number of "Hacks" that use the same system for other settings. Scum & Villainy is a favourite as that's basically the Firefly TV show, scoundrels in a small starship getting up to criminal hijinks.

I'd also argue against the notion that the system can only be used in specific ways. I am currently (as in, have the document open in another window as I type this) working to convert the Warhammer Fantasy setting to use it with a more standard RPG approach instead of the Heist with flashbacks model. It's going very well.


The advantages of the Blades system are:-

-It has a core dice mechanic that allows players to do cinematic feats while giving them serious incentive not to use them. Your "Drama Points" are also effectively your hit points, so players quickly learn to not use fancy stuff unless they have no choice rather than it being the go-to option. (One reason I like it for Warhammer.)

-It mirrors the Heist genre by having a "Flashback" system. Players can interrupt the GM and say that actually, they prepared some clever plan in advance- but they have to spend that same metacurrency to do it. The more the plan breaks suspension of disbelief, the more it costs to make it happen. So if a PC was in the room they planted something in earlier in the session and had mentioned carrying the item they might do it for free; planting something last seen on the PCs bedroom dresser in a room they've never been in before IC is another matter.

-Equipment is handled in a similar manner. PCs choose a Light Load (civilian clothing) or Heavy Load (visibly armed and tooled up) at the start of a mission. Each gives a number of points that can be spent on equipment, with the PC spending this as they need it rather than having to anticipate what they need ahead of time.


It's meant to make players feel like the super-smart protagonists of a Heist movie who've planned out every move in advance without forcing the players to conduct the excessive preparation and planning needed themselves. It's not meant to be realistic because Heist movies aren't realistic- hence the dramatic rather than simulationist system.

No love for Dishonored?

The 2d20 system that Modiphius uses is good- I really like it- and while I don't have Dishonored I have several other games that use it.

If you'd asked about Dark Fantasy with pseudo-Steampunk aesthetics then yes, I'd have suggested Dishonored. But you specifically asked about Heist games and that's the one specific thing that Blades in the Dark was written to do and it does it better than either of the other suggestions.

I would suggest Shadowrun, 4E. You can always cut out the systems that wouldn't be appropriate - the magic or the hacking (we've played an SR game with no hacking and independently with no magic). The skill system is very robust, it's not level based, it has nice lovely dice-pool curves. IMO, I would stay away from BitD because it misses out on the two most fundamental steps of doing a heist - the planning and the legwork. Their flashback mechanic is okay, but it's a limited resource and also really a "but actually" deus ex machina. And honestly, one of the greatest rushes in my TTRPG history is when a shadowrun goes SO smoothly, that there's no complications. A session and a half of planning, quarter session execution, quarter session follow-up.

I'd lean towards Chaosium BRP or maybe Flashing Blades.

It'd be pure hubris to say Galaxies In Shadow is the best anything but I did write a chapter on running capers, investigations, and trials.  http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/gisgrfx.pdf

As a general rule, u find most traditional rulesets to be crap at emulating the fun of heists and would recommend a narrative game for running them. Unfortunately,  I'm not a huge fan of narrative games, so I don't do much roleplaying of heists.

Quote from: drayakir on February 19, 2022, 01:50:49 PM
I would suggest Shadowrun, 4E. You can always cut out the systems that wouldn't be appropriate - the magic or the hacking (we've played an SR game with no hacking and independently with no magic). The skill system is very robust, it's not level based, it has nice lovely dice-pool curves. IMO, I would stay away from BitD because it misses out on the two most fundamental steps of doing a heist - the planning and the legwork. Their flashback mechanic is okay, but it's a limited resource and also really a "but actually" deus ex machina. And honestly, one of the greatest rushes in my TTRPG history is when a shadowrun goes SO smoothly, that there's no complications. A session and a half of planning, quarter session execution, quarter session follow-up.

Those are actually the selling points of BiTD!

That you are not spending lots of session time in the planning and legwork phases - you are just getting to it!
(There is a bit of group decision making as they are expected to describe their overall approach to the GM.)

But groups vary, some like the extensive planning, and some just want to get down to business, and are willing to indulge in some flashback/meta mechanics to skip 'to the fun part'...

Quote from: Jaeger on February 21, 2022, 04:23:09 PM

Quote from: drayakir on February 19, 2022, 01:50:49 PM
I would suggest Shadowrun, 4E. You can always cut out the systems that wouldn't be appropriate - the magic or the hacking (we've played an SR game with no hacking and independently with no magic). The skill system is very robust, it's not level based, it has nice lovely dice-pool curves. IMO, I would stay away from BitD because it misses out on the two most fundamental steps of doing a heist - the planning and the legwork. Their flashback mechanic is okay, but it's a limited resource and also really a "but actually" deus ex machina. And honestly, one of the greatest rushes in my TTRPG history is when a shadowrun goes SO smoothly, that there's no complications. A session and a half of planning, quarter session execution, quarter session follow-up.

Those are actually the selling points of BiTD!

That you are not spending lots of session time in the planning and legwork phases - you are just getting to it!
(There is a bit of group decision making as they are expected to describe their overall approach to the GM.)

But groups vary, some like the extensive planning, and some just want to get down to business, and are willing to indulge in some flashback/meta mechanics to skip 'to the fun part'...

I think if the Flashback system was more involved, it would've been better, and uncapped.