RIFTS england does fucking suck.

RPGPundit

He didn't really ban me playing a Vagabond.  It was more like ," You can play anything you like..." but the feeling was I was going to become a grease spot during the first scene.

I ended up playing a juicer.  It was insanely over the top.  I quit the group -- I wanted something a little more down-to-earth and rougher.

You know, the thing is that while as someone pointed out the default of RIFTS is to play with potentially wildly varying power-levels, RIFTS is not a game like even D&D, where ostensibly everyone begins at a vaguely similar level of power.  So to me it is totally viable in a game like RIFTS to declare entire swaths of "main book" OCCs or RCCs verboten for a given campaign, whether its because you plan to have a high action campaign (where certain classes would just be useless or outmatched hopelessly), or a "gritty campaign" (where certain classes would not fit or be overpowered).

Even in my current campaign, I've banned Dragon hatchlings from the list of starting characters (aside from that, I've allowed all the classes from Shadow Chronicles and all the other classes/RCCs from the RIFTS 1st edition main book).

RPGPundit

Quote from: Spike;417427I have to agree with England sucking, and I'm always at a complete loss to explain where, exactly, it went wrong... too much emphasis on druidy stuff and the wonky reworked Aurthurian legend stuff?  Who knows?

The Arthurian crap was one of two things that killed Rifts: England for me.  The other thing was - England was essentially completely destroyed.  Not like North America or the NGR where industry could be rebuilt; England was wiped the fuck out.  It's explained that much MD stuff is bought from the NGR, but only in the last 20 years or so.  This leads to the question:  how the hell did humans survive in England for 200 years?  Especially since the Knight OCC starts with SDC weapons!!!

Take out the Arthurian bullshit (any remake of Arthur or Dracula automatically sucks balls except Mutants in Avalon) and I don't mind the fluff in England; the Formorians, Celtic gods, and the various insects and giant mushroom houses are all cool and should have been expanded on.  Actually, that's probably why England failed;  it spent way too much space on a stupid Arthurian crap-fest when it should have been about the mystical and weird stuff that populates the islands.  It's always stated that Rifts England is one of the most magical places on the planet, yet there was virtually no mention of magic.

The Druids had potential to be sweet, but failed because the explanation of how they are magic-users was... oh yeah! NONEXISTENT.  Of course, the Scathach was further ruined when it got perverted into the Mystic Kuznya crap in Mystic Russia (one of my favorite Rifts books, btw)

I've always denied certain OCC's and RCC's for my players in Rifts.  I've never had a player who complained about it or anything once I explained why.  I've played in Coalition-only games, and ran games where player's could only be SDC beings, players could only be low-MD beings (from a list I made), and even reptile-only characters traveling from Canada to South America.

Quote from: everloss;419672I've always denied certain OCC's and RCC's for my players in Rifts.  I've never had a player who complained about it or anything once I explained why.  I've played in Coalition-only games, and ran games where player's could only be SDC beings, players could only be low-MD beings (from a list I made), and even reptile-only characters traveling from Canada to South America.

Reptile-only? Why?

RPGPundit

Wow, that's a big post.

It's great to log in and see a bunch of Rifts threads in the first page!

Quote from: RPGPundit;416174A thought came to me: "Scum of The Wasted Earth":  A RIFTS campaign where all the PCs are Vagabonds.

"Gritty, low power Rifts" is always a great call. "All Vagabonds, all the time" might get a tad restrictive, though; I'd suggest "all Adventurer OCCs from the Main Book" (i.e. everything other than Men-At-Arms, Practitioners of Magic, Master Psionics or Dragons).

Quote from: RPGPundit;417037That's the thing a lot of people don't get about RIFTS, its actually several different power levels of games all rolled into one. And you can play a "mixed power-level game" to success, but if you want to, you can also run a high-powered game full of Glitter Boys and Mecha Pilots, or you can run a gritty low-powered game where those kinds of classes are not in the running.

"Mixed power level", to me, is the Rifts default. That's how all my games have ever been, with Dragons and Power Armor Commandos and True Atlantean Undead Slayers rubbing shoulders with City Rats and Rogue Scholars and Vagabonds. And this is why no conversion to traditional point-buy systems ever feels right.

Quote from: Zachary The First;417063The Rogue Scholar is my favorite class in the game.  Give me my extensive knowledge background, a digital recorder, a laser pistol, and send me out into the wide world.

Same here. The Rogue Scholar is my favorite class, bar none. Kevin Long's illo of a badass-looking scholar with a desk full of books, pistol in hand, looking over his shoulder... excites my imagination in ways Glitter Boys and Dragons don't come even close.

Quote from: RPGPundit;417603RIFTS england does fucking suck.

Rifts England is kind of sucky but I hold on it, if only for the Temporal Magic, which I love.

I'm a Triax & The NGR kind of guy myself. I am actually curious to see the TRiax & The NGR II book, and I may yet break down and order my first Rifts book in 12 years...

Quote from: RPGPundit;417865Even in my current campaign, I've banned Dragon hatchlings from the list of starting characters

Call me crazy, but I don't find Dragon Hatchlings all that unbalancing. The genius here is that the GM demands the PC to play them as innocent and childlike (NOT stupid), and that they might initially have a hard time passing for human (even under metamorphosis), and this partly counterbalances the "spellcasting regenerating teleporting giant robot" syndrome.

It's easy to imagine several non-combat scenarios in which a Vagabond would be far, far more useful than a Dragon Hatchling could ever dream of being.

I do think certain classes attract problem players in Rifts. In just my experience, guys playing Rogue Scholars, Grunts, Vagabonds, Operators, aren't much of a problem.  It's the Dragon Hatchlings, non-standard Juicers (Titan, Dragon, Hyperion), Secondary Vampires, and, yes, Dog Boys, that attract trouble.  I'm sure it's different for each group, though.

This thread gave me another burst of energy to work on my "Kitchen-Sink Post-Apocalyptic" setting for MiniSix.

Quote from: Zachary The First;419982I do think certain classes attract problem players in Rifts. In just my experience, guys playing Rogue Scholars, Grunts, Vagabonds, Operators, aren't much of a problem.  It's the Dragon Hatchlings, non-standard Juicers (Titan, Dragon, Hyperion), Secondary Vampires, and, yes, Dog Boys, that attract trouble.  I'm sure it's different for each group, though.

This thread gave me another burst of energy to work on my "Kitchen-Sink Post-Apocalyptic" setting for MiniSix.

I don't see what's so wrong with Dog Boys, they are like ants hunting caribou. It's all most cute.

Quote from: Cranewings;420087I don't see what's so wrong with Dog Boys, they are like ants hunting caribou. It's all most cute.

Yeah, I have nothing personally against 'em.  It's just in my games--and my experience--for some reason, we've had a string of over-the-top, disruptive, and one-shot gimmicky, unfunny players riffing off the dog aspect of the character.  You know:

Rogue Scholar: OK, since we're in town, I want to see if the Sheriff has heard anything regarding vampire activity in the region.

Gunfighter: I'm going to see if I can't find somewhere to get these e-clips recharged.

Operator: I'll work on the APC, then I'm going to sleep off that knife wound.

Dog Boy: I LOOK FOR A FIRE HYDRANT LOLOLOLOLOL


....

I'm sure this isn't the case in everyone's games; I'm just cursed.

I've had people play Dog boys basically fine; though I could see how they could end up doing what you describe if in the hands of certain types of players.

Dragon Hatchlings, on the other hand, are a recipe for disaster. The Butcher's suggestion would only make things even worse! If you play them "childlike" then what you are left with is essentially a Kender with Cosmic Power. Jesus fuck.

Speaking of Triax II; does anyone have this book? I don't and would be interesting to know if its worth it.  
I think that the right kind of European RIFTS campaign for me would require Triax and Mindwerks. They compliment each other nicely.

RPGPundit

You know, kender have a bad rap. Some of my players best characters were kender. I think certain players just love the chaotic neutral alignment.

Quote from: RPGPundit;420219Dragon Hatchlings, on the other hand, are a recipe for disaster. The Butcher's suggestion would only make things even worse! If you play them "childlike" then what you are left with is essentially a Kender with Cosmic Power. Jesus fuck.

Admittedly I've only had a Dragon Hatchling PC once, and the player was a good RPer and played the character as an innocent, if inhuman being, without being disruptive.

Quote from: RPGPundit;420219Speaking of Triax II; does anyone have this book? I don't and would be interesting to know if its worth it.

I'm curious too. The original Triax book was long on new toys and short on world info, but what little world info there was, was really good.

Quote from: RPGPundit;420219I think that the right kind of European RIFTS campaign for me would require Triax and Mindwerks. They compliment each other nicely.

Those were the two mainstays for my European Rifts game, plus Vampire Kingdoms (I had vampire kingdoms in Romenia and the Balkans; trite, maybe, but it worked) and England (for some OCCs), and, later down the line, Warlords of Russia.

Today, I'd tack on Mystic Russia and Federation of Magic (for more magic) and Psyscape (for more psionics and psi-implants, should mesh in nicely with Mindwerks).

I haven't picked up Triax II, or really, any of the newer stuff for at least 18 months or so.  I'm not sure, and I can't find a qualified review on it.

Quote from: The Butcher;420305Today, I'd tack on Mystic Russia and Federation of Magic (for more magic) and Psyscape (for more psionics and psi-implants, should mesh in nicely with Mindwerks).

Mystic Russia is a great book, one of my favorites. I also agree that if your game is in eastern Europe or Russia, you need this book.