Quote from: SineNomine;644135Really, it was just a matter of wanting to write a consciously sandbox-focused sci-fi game that was built from the ground up to support a particular style of play. I really like sandboxes, so I write games that help people make sandboxes. Spears of the Dawn, Other Dust, SWN, the two I'm working on right now- they're all built to treat their topics from the perspective of a GM who wants to make an easy, effective, useful sandbox of his game.

That particular style of play being vintage D&D only.

Quote from: SineNomine;644135The system these games uses doesn't especially matter. I picked old-school mechanics because the vast majority of gamers understand them and can gloss over them on their way to the important parts of the books- the parts where they build their sci-fi sector, or put together their post-apoc wasteland, or gin up their own version of the African-flavored Five Kingdoms. Those parts are the reasons I wrote the games and the reasons I'm writing the next games as well.

System doesn't matter because vintage D&D can be shoehorned into everything because it makes any genre better. Vintage D&D in Space! Vintage D&D After The Bomb! Vintage D&D in Darkest Africa!

Quote from: SineNomine;644135It may be that this somehow wounds their predecessors, but I don't give a damn. Traveller has taken care of itself for the past thirty years without my generous cheerleading, and I suspect it would continue on merrily were I to spend the rest of my days wharrrgrbling against it. It does its thing, I do mine, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do to stop us.

We can tell you don't give a damn, but it really does not so much hurt the predecessors as much as it creates myopic Players. If the One True Scotsman of OSR RPGs is to have vintage D&D be the best fit for every kind of RPG genre gameplay then why have different games at all? No matter how you slice it, it is still balony.

I would still really like to see an OSR (that is, Old-school D&D-based) version of Shadowrun.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;644795I would still really like to see an OSR (that is, Old-school D&D-based) version of Shadowrun.

RPGPundit

I thought about going this route with Hackerscape but decided against it.

Though once Arcana Rising is out and I go back to it, the two books together should be all you need to do something SR-esque.

Quote from: RPGPundit;644795I would still really like to see an OSR (that is, Old-school D&D-based) version of Shadowrun.

RPGPundit

I did that once, had a Ravenloft campaign where the player ended up passing through a mirror into the future. Had stuff like Stradh industries as a megacorp and a Cyborg Lord Soth.

Quote from: TristramEvans;644831I did that once, had a Ravenloft campaign where the player ended up passing through a mirror into the future. Had stuff like Stradh industries as a megacorp and a Cyborg Lord Soth.

Hmm. I don't know if that's exactly what I had in mind, really.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;644795I would still really like to see an OSR (that is, Old-school D&D-based) version of Shadowrun.

RPGPundit

I actually have a handful of notes towards exactly that.

Quote from: LibraryLass;645560I actually have a handful of notes towards exactly that.

That'd be an interesting thing for you to share in a thread here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jeff37923;644081It is at this point that I stopped believing you. Before I just thought you were crazy.

You really can't imagine taking the Book 2 Space Combat rules and applying them to fantasy naval combat? Why not?

CT has an easy range system, you replace "turrets" with ballistas, you rename "engines" with sails, etc.

Traveller isn't some sacred holiness. CT is a toolbox that's incredibly fun to tear apart, re-examine and rebuild to make into something you imagine.

Kinda like OD&D.

Quote from: jeff37923;644090My beef is that OSR has become vintage D&D only to a lot of people.

The majority of the OSR belongs to the AD&D Revival faction, but not all.

I've read about small OSR cons on Dragonsfoot and while most people run vintage D&D, there are usually several people running other old games too.

CT fandom is unique because we were cranking away playing CT because every edition of Trav post CT and pre-Mong was absolutely retarded and there have been so few space RPGs that caught any attention.

CT fans are kinda like Palladium fans. Nothing much has changed for them in 25 years so they keep plugging along with the same game. But in that time, D&D has changed repeatedly from 2e to 3e to 4e to 5e.

Quote from: RPGPundit;644795I would still really like to see an OSR (that is, Old-school D&D-based) version of Shadowrun.

I've attempted this many years ago, but didn't like what I had. I ran "Sixguns & Sorcery" at conventions and the setting was semi-Deadlands, semi-post Apoc, lotsa Shadowrun. It was fantasy urban noir and while we had fun playing it, I never got excited enough about it to finish it.

My problem is guns. In the OSR Spy RPG I am writing, I am taking a hardcore approach to guns. Guns kill. I don't want James Bond, I want Counterstrike so that's my approach with that game.

But I am totally opposite about plasma guns for whatever reason. In my D&D in Spaaace game, people will definitely be hurling grenades and blasters about because that game is all about my mash-up of Gamma World and OD&D.

Quote from: Spinachcat;645878You really can't imagine taking the Book 2 Space Combat rules and applying them to fantasy naval combat? Why not?

CT has an easy range system, you replace "turrets" with ballistas, you rename "engines" with sails, etc.

Traveller isn't some sacred holiness. CT is a toolbox that's incredibly fun to tear apart, re-examine and rebuild to make into something you imagine.

Kinda like OD&D.

Because you obviously do not know what you are talking about here. The Classic Traveller space combat system is nothing like D&D naval combat.

The Classic Traveller space combat system uses vector movement to simulate straight acceleration with turnover at midpoint style travel. It hardly resembles medieval sailing or rowing waterborn vessels. The ships move differently and the scales are incompatible because medieval weapon ranges and even spell ranges are short compared to the extreme ranges at which spacecraft weapons operate.

In short, you are full of shit.

Of course, if your medieval seagoing ships all maneuver like Starfuries from Babylon 5 or Vipers from New Battlestar Galactica, then I guess it is OK.

Quote from: Spinachcat;645878The majority of the OSR belongs to the AD&D Revival faction, but not all.

I've read about small OSR cons on Dragonsfoot and while most people run vintage D&D, there are usually several people running other old games too.

I would not call OSRIC the majority. I would buy your statement if you said vintage D&D because there are several clones of 0D&D and Basic D&D.

Quote from: Spinachcat;645878CT fandom is unique because we were cranking away playing CT because every edition of Trav post CT and pre-Mong was absolutely retarded and there have been so few space RPGs that caught any attention.

CT fans are kinda like Palladium fans. Nothing much has changed for them in 25 years so they keep plugging along with the same game. But in that time, D&D has changed repeatedly from 2e to 3e to 4e to 5e.

Your blanket of statements here has some pretty big holes in it. Not every version of Traveller post-CT and pre-Mong is retarded. Each has unique aspects which are useful across every other version of Traveller. Even Megatraveller, which is an overcomplicated mess, has got the Visual Nugget adventure format that has proven invaluable to me in my own games.

As far as nothing changing, the UWP of Classic Traveller has stayed the same through the majority of Traveller versions. This makes all the old maps still useful today.

As far as CT fans being like Palladium fans, I don't see a lot of CT fans exhibiting the same level of Kevin fanaticism for Marc Miller. Then again, Marc Miller hasn't tried to con his own game's fans multiple times either.

Quote from: jeff37923;645900As far as CT fans being like Palladium fans, I don't see a lot of CT fans exhibiting the same level of Kevin fanaticism for Marc Miller. Then again, Marc Miller hasn't tried to con his own game's fans multiple times either.

:teehee:

Quote from: RPGPundit;645852That'd be an interesting thing for you to share in a thread here.

RPGPundit

Maybe. It's nothing quite usable yet. In need of work, you know, and I've got ongoing projects as is.

Quote from: LibraryLass;645975Maybe. It's nothing quite usable yet. In need of work, you know, and I've got ongoing projects as is.

Well, keep us updated.

It is a mistake to think OSR = clones because for a large faction of the OSR, its about a return to the original texts, not just play style.  You don't get Gygax worship via OSRIC. Thus the clamoring for AD&D reprints, not S&W in hardcover.

Quote from: jeff37923;645900Because you obviously do not know what you are talking about here. The Classic Traveller space combat system is nothing like D&D naval combat.

Its always cute when you get extra dumb!

Vector movement isn't even used by most Traveller fans. Its immediately traded for space movie cinematics by almost every GM I've played with so its a non-issue when picking apart the system and re-assembling it for fantasy naval combat.

Turnover at midpoint? Those are your players really?  Mine are more let's jump while we're still in the atmosphere. Adama did it so why can't we?

And ranges? Are you kidding me? You got short range and long range in Book 2 weapons and that's easy enough to break down for naval combat. Throwing spears? Short range. Magic Missile? Long range. Ballista? Long range. Fire-breathing? Short range. Fast and easy abstractions.

The CT space combat system works fast and gets nasty, leaving somebody with a broken wreck floating dead in space. This worked great for naval combat because I didn't care about the realities of ocean currents, sails and whatever, but how I could run some fantasy cannon blasts, some ballistas, some magic spells and boom, boom, boom  - one shit was crippled so let's board it and get into melee combat.

As with everything in the 3BB of CT, you can chop out stuff you want, leave the rest and modify it every which way.

It's not rocket science.

Quote from: Spinachcat;646316Its always cute when you get extra dumb!

Vector movement isn't even used by most Traveller fans. Its immediately traded for space movie cinematics by almost every GM I've played with so its a non-issue when picking apart the system and re-assembling it for fantasy naval combat.

Turnover at midpoint? Those are your players really?  Mine are more let's jump while we're still in the atmosphere. Adama did it so why can't we?

And ranges? Are you kidding me? You got short range and long range in Book 2 weapons and that's easy enough to break down for naval combat. Throwing spears? Short range. Magic Missile? Long range. Ballista? Long range. Fire-breathing? Short range. Fast and easy abstractions.

The CT space combat system works fast and gets nasty, leaving somebody with a broken wreck floating dead in space. This worked great for naval combat because I didn't care about the realities of ocean currents, sails and whatever, but how I could run some fantasy cannon blasts, some ballistas, some magic spells and boom, boom, boom  - one shit was crippled so let's board it and get into melee combat.

As with everything in the 3BB of CT, you can chop out stuff you want, leave the rest and modify it every which way.

It's not rocket science.

So what you are saying here is that your fantasy naval combat is not based on Classic Traveller space combat, but is something you pulled entirely out of your ass.

That and statements like "I didn't care about the realities of ocean currents and sails and whatever" and "Mine are more let's jump while we're still in the atmosphere. Adama did it so why can't we?" make me think you are just being a liar here. Why? Well, if you don't care about what an ocean environment is like, then why do you give a fuck at all about naval combat?  Rules making in-atmosphere jumps dangerous, if not lethal, have been in the Classic Traveller rules from the beginning - about 20 years before the concept of in-atmosphere jumps ever appeared iin media, so how did your Players decide it was cool to do?

If you ignore the entire basis for Classic Traveller space combat, the 1000 second combat turns, the vector movement, how it is nothing like most cinematic space combat where the ships move like WW2 dogfighting planes and battleships, then you are not using the Classic Traveller space combat system. You are not even making a hack of it. You are just pulling your own combat system out of your ass.

That is what made the Classic Traveller space combat system unique and attractive, it is rocket science. Used by Players and Referees who like vector movement.