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Author Topic: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG  (Read 24043 times)

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #195 on: January 27, 2022, 10:02:46 AM »
“Demon Slayer” Manga Outsells Entire US Comics Industry
And the US comics industry is also shit (and way deeper shit). And Demon Slayer is just generic shonen with a high animation budget.
Im not some socjus warrior clutching my pearls at goblin rape. Im a guy that wants better writing and more interesting action from an industry that I used to really like. It always had crap, but now it just has way less good stuff as well.

Mamoru Oshii made the sequel to Patlabor in friggin live action, because as he put it, the industry just lacks the creative chops to do the stuff they did in the 80s-90s.

That's what I think is so funny. Other than being a bit graphic, it's really just an extremely trope-y D&D story. It's honestly kind of hard to take seriously, like so many isekai and isekai-adjacent manga, because it plays D&D-isms and/or MMO-isms so straight and literally, like having bona fide classes, skills, and levels as real things in the settings.

Yup, and if you seen 1, you seen them all because they are the tropiness of anime taken to an extreme.

Omega

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #196 on: January 28, 2022, 02:53:47 AM »
like so many isekai and isekai-adjacent manga, because it plays D&D-isms and/or MMO-isms so straight and literally, like having bona fide classes, skills, and levels as real things in the settings.

Um... To my knowledge Goblin Slayer is not an Isekai.

Now game mechanics in a show... Thats its own genre and goes quite a ways back. First one I ever heard of was Dragon Pink. The advertisements for it in VHS showed definite game elements. Theres probably older ones. Not counting cartoons actually set in games like Pac Man.  8)

S'mon

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #197 on: January 28, 2022, 04:54:48 AM »
Goblin Slayer is presented as an actual TTRPG campaign, with dice rolls and such. Not an MMO, not an Isekai. I kinda like its meta-critique of TTRPG tropes.

VisionStorm

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #198 on: January 28, 2022, 06:26:00 AM »
I kinda like its meta-critique of TTRPG tropes.

I always though that Goblin Slayer was more about this than goblin rape. But if you listen to any criticism against it without ever watching the show, you'd think it was a multi-episode smut film. Yet the show itself is really about making fun of TTRPG tropes, while still trying to highlight the dangers of ignoring threats that brew at the margins of civilization cuz "They're just goblins".

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #199 on: January 28, 2022, 08:12:48 AM »
I kinda like its meta-critique of TTRPG tropes.
Oh bullshit. Thats so out of the anime fans playbook to call lazy tropes played straight “critiques” or “subversion/deconstruction”.

Having lazy writing in a universe of morons except the self-insert oc doesn't make for criticism, satire, or deconstruction. Just admit to watching shlock and don’t hide your tastes as something they are not.

VisionStorm

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #200 on: January 28, 2022, 09:08:09 AM »
I kinda like its meta-critique of TTRPG tropes.
Oh bullshit. Thats so out of the anime fans playbook to call lazy tropes played straight “critiques” or “subversion/deconstruction”.

Having lazy writing in a universe of morons except the self-insert oc doesn't make for criticism, satire, or deconstruction. Just admit to watching shlock and don’t hide your tastes as something they are not.

"I personally consider this show to be shlock and its handling of the material lazy."

Is a weak counterargument to:

"This show is a meta-critique of RPG tropes."

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #201 on: January 28, 2022, 09:18:29 AM »
"This show is a meta-critique of RPG tropes."
"X is a meta commentary!" -is by the playbook.


Just say you like anime titties and goblins being slayed by a self-insert OC in a world of morons. There is no shame.

S'mon

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #202 on: January 28, 2022, 10:54:58 AM »
I definitely like anime titties. I don't particularly identify with angsty teen protagonists though. I probably identify more with the sensible silver rank adventurers in the other party.

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #203 on: January 28, 2022, 11:11:47 AM »
I've watched a couple of episodes on youtube. It's entertaining enough, but then I'm easily entertained. What I find amazing about those who decry the anime for the one scene are hypocritical. They can put what makes them feel good into their games and books but if it offends me, too bad. But I realize they're just being people. We're all hypocritical LOL
Member in good standing of COSM.

VisionStorm

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #204 on: January 28, 2022, 11:16:48 AM »
"This show is a meta-critique of RPG tropes."
"X is a meta commentary!" -is by the playbook.


Just say you like anime titties and goblins being slayed by a self-insert OC in a world of morons. There is no shame.

Still not an argument. Just a literal ad hom, used to back up what's essentially another ad hom*.

*perhaps not in the strictest sense of the term, but essentially the same type of fallacy, where you're dismissing an argument on the basis of your low opinion of the subject matter being discussed, rather than on the merits of the arguments or even simple observations that stand on their own.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #205 on: January 28, 2022, 11:33:04 AM »
Still not an argument.

Ok here is it: its not satire, its just low quality writing. You can claim all shallow things are secretly satire. “Michael bay satirizes shallow hollywood action films!”.

Anime fans have a tendency to defend shallow writing with claims of commentary or satire.

Edit: what i mean is that by itself “x is really satire” is a irrefutable argument for anything.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 11:51:34 AM by Shrieking Banshee »

VisionStorm

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #206 on: January 28, 2022, 11:53:52 AM »
Still not an argument.

Ok here is it: its not satire, its just low quality writing. You can claim all shallow things are secretly satire. “Michael bay satirizes shallow hollywood action films!”.

Anime fans have a tendency to defend shallow writing with claims of commentary or satire.

This is pretty much negating reality and reinstating your ad homs again.

The show is literally comedy. Even to the degree that the main character takes himself seriously, it's presented in a comedic way, like "Why the hell is this dude being so serious about low-level dungeon spawn like goblins? WTF?" Saying that it isn't satire is basically negating reality, or at the most charitable, having COMPLETELY different definitions of WTF "satire" even is.

I normally don't watch animated stuff, but I was at a friend's house and ended up watching it. Main reason I kept watching it is because it was funny D&Dish satire. But now the show isn't satire cuz anime fans supposedly use that as an excuse to support bad writing, on your say so.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #207 on: January 28, 2022, 12:42:34 PM »
This is pretty much negating reality and reinstating your ad homs again.
Because 'Its satirical' is impossible to argue with. Taken at face value, its impossible to refute. Because its such an easy claim to make, I put it on you to justify its satirical value as good, in place of me having to refute it.

If judged as a comedy, its a weak one with jokes that are extremly stale (WOAH its got Character Classes! And a harem of bimbos following a bland self-insert edgelord MC! How original and uncommon!). It satirizes the MC for taking things seriously, but then justifies them by making the goblins a serious threat.

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The show is literally comedy.

Its 'Literally' not. Its Dark Fantasy, same category as Berserk and Drifters. Having comedic elements doesn't make something a comedy.
Dragonball has comedic elements (it started out as a comedy even), but doesn't make its later arcs satire or comedy of shonen. Fullmetal alchemist has comedic elements (some people really dislike them), but its not a comedy.

VisionStorm

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #208 on: January 28, 2022, 01:08:25 PM »
This is pretty much negating reality and reinstating your ad homs again.
Because 'Its satirical' is impossible to argue with. Taken at face value, its impossible to refute. Because its such an easy claim to make, I put it on you to justify its satirical value as good, in place of me having to refute it.

If judged as a comedy, its a weak one with jokes that are extremly stale (WOAH its got Character Classes! And a harem of bimbos following a bland self-insert edgelord MC! How original and uncommon!). It satirizes the MC for taking things seriously, but then justifies them by making the goblins a serious threat.

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The show is literally comedy.

Its 'Literally' not. Its Dark Fantasy, same category as Berserk and Drifters. Having comedic elements doesn't make something a comedy.
Dragonball has comedic elements (it started out as a comedy even), but doesn't make its later arcs satire or comedy of shonen. Fullmetal alchemist has comedic elements (some people really dislike them), but its not a comedy.

Judging satire as "satire" is not contingent upon personal taste or opinion. It just has to use "humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices", which the show does in basically every single episode. I have seen plenty of comedy films or shows I did not find funny. That did not make them "not comedy, because I personally didn't like them, therefore they aren't".

That's not how taste or personal opinions work. Just because you personally don't find something funny that does include multiple attempts at humor in it that doesn't place the burden of proof on someone else observing that it does in fact include humor in somehow "proving" that it does. You don't have to like a joke to recognize it as a joke unless you're being disingenuous or have some very skewed perspectives on how subjectivity works. Just because you need to like a joke (or know enough to understand the punchline) in order to find it funny that doesn't make jokes some inherently subjective thing that isn't humor unless you personally believe it's humor--it's still humor regardless. You just personally didn't find it funny.

And something being Dark Fantasy doesn't preclude it from also being comedy or satire. Evil Dead was both Horror, AND satire. Lethal Weapon was both, comedy AND an action flick. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was both Dark Fantasy AND comedy. Films, TV shows and literary works (etc.) can belong to multiple genres (or include multiple elements of them) at once.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Goblin Slayer: Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG
« Reply #209 on: January 28, 2022, 01:23:01 PM »
Even 4chan thinks it's poorly written. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Goblin_Slayer#Criticism

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As stated above, this manga has garnered controversy thanks due in part to its inconsistent setting. It’s a setting with two opposing sets of gods playing a D&D-like game with the entire world, of which the characters and people in it are distantly aware. Many arguments have been had over whether the worldbuilding is simple and spartan or simply lazy, and particularly over whether it is a realistic fantasy world. As always with Japanese fantasy settings, the usual skub about Adventurers Guilds are frequently brought up.

A common criticism is that goblins are a threat disregarded by most political powerholders in the regions in which the story is set. Despite constantly raiding and destroying villages, killing adventuring parties, and being a constant boogeyman to women everywhere, they continue to be seen as unimportant and low-priority. When multiple parties of adventurers are forced to go after a goblin nest, people complain that this proves the deadliness of goblins and how they should be treated as a far greater danger, particularly in the frontier region in which Goblin Slayer operates.

Another common criticism leveled at the setting is that it is tonally dissonant. Goblin Slayer applies a grim, gritty motif to goblins and all encounters with them: goblins use simple but brutal and effective tactics like poisoned weapons, ambushes, traps, etc. However, the rest of the world is filled with standard JRPG tropes, including common use of Fantasy Armor. As such, when a dragon-killing barbarian is slain by a single cunning goblin, there are complaints that the world is flipping between Heroic Fantasy and Grimdark Low Fantasy only when goblins are involved, written solely to be edgy and "dark".

Finally, one of the major criticisms regards Goblin Slayer and his tactics, which are presented in story as being the result of pragmatic strategizing. In particular, some criticize his choice to use low-end gear to limit the fallout of his death should it be looted by goblins, instead of simply wearing much better gear to both kill more goblins faster and make getting killed by goblins less likely. Others believe his tactics are ridiculously fantastical, or simply tryhard attempts at seeming intelligent.