The main difference between Goblin Slayer and Game of Thrones is I still want to read more Goblin Slayer.  After the boring ass slog that was A Dance with Dragons, I no longer care if Martin lives to finish the series.  Especially now that we know how lame the ending will be.  Also. I'll take rape over the torture porn that the GoT series has turned into any day. 

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 05:57:08 PM
I give you a 2 out of 5 for trying to obfuscate the hypocrisy of your fellow travelers.

I wasn't trying to say they weren't hypocritical. I don't visit RPGnet, but from what you're saying they do sound hypocritical.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 07:44:54 PM
So BoxCrayon straight-up Lied to try and give his weak-sauce talking points some weight...

Quell surprise.

I was mistaken. "Lying" means deliberately telling an untruth. That's not what I did.

I'm not inclined to glance at more than a few panels from the manga to double-check exactly how softcore or hardcore pornographic it was because I found it gratuitous, exploitative, cruel, sadistic and generally repugnant. It depicts numerous girls being introduced only to be gang raped and then, if they survive, discarded by the narrative. In terms of horrid stuff I remember reading in manga that aren't intended to be porn, it's tied with the factory assembly line that dismembers girls in Elfen Lied and that one whose title I don't recall with a criminal resembling Jabba the Hutt who rapes boys until they explode into piles of gore.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 27, 2021, 08:26:31 PM
Exactly... Players would be dealing with of off screen consequences of vile monsters' actions. I don't think any normal players would want a blow by blow account, or any graphic detail.

Well, sure. But do we really need to suggest (or outright state) that rape is involved in the first place?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 12:54:11 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 05:57:08 PM
I give you a 2 out of 5 for trying to obfuscate the hypocrisy of your fellow travelers.

I wasn't trying to say they weren't hypocritical. I don't visit RPGnet, but from what you're saying they do sound hypocritical.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 07:44:54 PM
So BoxCrayon straight-up Lied to try and give his weak-sauce talking points some weight...

Quell surprise.

I was mistaken. "Lying" means deliberately telling an untruth. That's not what I did.

I'm not inclined to glance at more than a few panels from the manga to double-check exactly how softcore or hardcore pornographic it was because I found it gratuitous, exploitative, cruel, sadistic and generally repugnant. It depicts numerous girls being introduced only to be gang raped and then, if they survive, discarded by the narrative. In terms of horrid stuff I remember reading in manga that aren't intended to be porn, it's tied with the factory assembly line that dismembers girls in Elfen Lied and that one whose title I don't recall with a criminal resembling Jabba the Hutt who rapes boys until they explode into piles of gore.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 27, 2021, 08:26:31 PM
Exactly... Players would be dealing with of off screen consequences of vile monsters' actions. I don't think any normal players would want a blow by blow account, or any graphic detail.

Well, sure. But do we really need to suggest (or outright state) that rape is involved in the first place?

Greetings!

Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 12:54:11 PM

Well, sure. But do we really need to suggest (or outright state) that rape is involved in the first place?
[/quote]

Well... if you want to use the cannon as is, then you do. But again, this is more of a plot device, in order to spur the players into kicking the shit out of goblins and other evil folk. It highlights just how vile they really are. And it just shows how much the heroes are needed to protect the innocent. Remember, were not talking about showing the rape per se or letting it happen to a player. It something that occurs in a 'nebulous' fashion, it sexists in 'concept' and not in physical form per.

Of course you could 'redact' this element from the game for the sake of someone's fee fees. But then, I suspect this game is not for them in the first place, and they would be better off with 5e, and a fluffy Ravenloft setting or some such.

I can never fathom why people (sjw + weirdo religious types) are so squeamish around silly little game of make believe. It's not as if anyone is off recreating the game in real life or saying 'rape' is a good thing.

One: Because you don't have to play them.
Two: They're not real - it's a game of imagination, just play the games you feel comfortable with instead of playing something dark.
Three: Who has the moral authority to tell me (or anyone for that matter) what games we should or shouldn't play?
Four: Never bow to artistic censorship - So feck those woke or hyper religious types.

In closing that's why you need to be able to mention it in a game imo.

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Indeedy! Pretty much what I was saying.

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

D&D is a hobby for both children and adults.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Well... if you want to use the cannon as is, then you do. But again, this is more of a plot device, in order to spur the players into kicking the shit out of goblins and other evil folk. It highlights just how vile they really are. And it just shows how much the heroes are needed to protect the innocent. Remember, were not talking about showing the rape per se or letting it happen to a player. It something that occurs in a 'nebulous' fashion, it sexists in 'concept' and not in physical form per.

Is it not enough for them to kill and eat people? To butcher villages?

When a quarter of the male population in real life admits to being violent rapists (with plenty more not admitting to it), it's hard for me to see rape as a indicator of inhuman evil. Being a rapist or a victim is the normal state of existence for billions of people.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 01:49:04 PM

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

D&D is a hobby for both children and adults.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Well... if you want to use the cannon as is, then you do. But again, this is more of a plot device, in order to spur the players into kicking the shit out of goblins and other evil folk. It highlights just how vile they really are. And it just shows how much the heroes are needed to protect the innocent. Remember, were not talking about showing the rape per se or letting it happen to a player. It something that occurs in a 'nebulous' fashion, it sexists in 'concept' and not in physical form per.

Is it not enough for them to kill and eat people? To butcher villages?

When a quarter of the male population in real life admits to being violent rapists (with plenty more not admitting to it), it's hard for me to see rape as a indicator of inhuman evil. Being a rapist or a victim is the normal state of existence for billions of people.

Couple of things.

RPGing is a game for everyone. True...
That said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults. Same as horror films or disturbing media, you don't allow your kids to view, or play them. And most adults, who don't like that stuff have the common sense to stay away from it. No X-Cards around here... Step up and take responsibility for yourself and what you consume.

Now this other 'facts' you bring up (quarter of all men, I find that a touch dubious?). I would very much doubt it's that high (not in Ireland anyway).
But what the actual fcuk have they that got to do with an imaginary game? I tell you what, not a jot. This is the usual classic diversionary tactic. 'But but but... rape in the real world. Cesor... censor...censor'. What has that got to do with me? Or most other 'normal' males? nothing, we don't abuse women.

Incidentally, I teach women self-defense, so I have a real problem with males who abuse women. Any man that uses violence against women (or a weaker person) is a P.O.S. and should be punished harshly by the authorities.

Now back to your whataboutisim, lets talk about 'real world problems' as depicted in 'imaginary rpg games'. If rape is so bad to have in 'passing', for the game's actual cannon. I presume you think it is a problem for women and somehow promotes violence or normalizes it in the real world Or that us white dudes have no empathy? I'd like to see some scientific evidence for that correlation (in rpg, games and violent films, etc.).

So we can't have rape mentioned 'off-screen' but yet we can have, god knows what, in other RPGs? All other violence and mayhem is acceptable. Drugs, cannibalism, torture, vile magic, human sacrifice, killing of children, vile monsters that do unspeakable things, sexual deviants, Xenomorphs that rape men and women - who's spawn erupts from a victims belly. I could go on and on... But you get the idea. Do those games propose people go off and do those things? Nope.

Basically, I find your problem with rape 'off screen' hypocritical considering burning people to death and eating women and children is okay. Go figure...

But would you not be better off just ignoring these games in the first place?

But hey, you do you as the saying goes.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PMThat said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults.

Well mature in the sense of being un-squimish. I wouldn't really call Goblin Slayer 'Mature'. Its like how Family Guy is technically mature animation.

But overall having rape in games isn't really all that different then murder or slaughter or the like.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on August 30, 2021, 02:51:09 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PMThat said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults.

Well mature in the sense of being un-squimish. I wouldn't really call Goblin Slayer 'Mature'. Its like how Family Guy is technically mature animation.

But overall having rape in games isn't really all that different then murder or slaughter or the like.

Greetings!

Yep, my friend! In a world that has slasher flicks with people being hacked apart by chainsaws, stabbed to death with ice-picks, or slowly skinned alive, with anal sex being taught to 6th graders in elementary schools, the joys of dildos, and 12 year old girls are watching gang-bangs on Pornhub on their Smart Phones every day...

I find someone having a stroke about "Rape" being mentioned in a hard-core fantasy RPG being pearl-clutching, and way out of the times.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 01:49:04 PM

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

D&D is a hobby for both children and adults.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Well... if you want to use the cannon as is, then you do. But again, this is more of a plot device, in order to spur the players into kicking the shit out of goblins and other evil folk. It highlights just how vile they really are. And it just shows how much the heroes are needed to protect the innocent. Remember, were not talking about showing the rape per se or letting it happen to a player. It something that occurs in a 'nebulous' fashion, it sexists in 'concept' and not in physical form per.

Is it not enough for them to kill and eat people? To butcher villages?

When a quarter of the male population in real life admits to being violent rapists (with plenty more not admitting to it), it's hard for me to see rape as a indicator of inhuman evil. Being a rapist or a victim is the normal state of existence for billions of people.

Couple of things.

RPGing is a game for everyone. True...
That said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults. Same as horror films or disturbing media, you don't allow your kids to view, or play them. And most adults, who don't like that stuff have the common sense to stay away from it. No X-Cards around here... Step up and take responsibility for yourself and what you consume.

Now this other 'facts' you bring up (quarter of all men, I find that a touch dubious?). I would very much doubt it's that high (not in Ireland anyway).
But what the actual fcuk have they that got to do with an imaginary game? I tell you what, not a jot. This is the usual classic diversionary tactic. 'But but but... rape in the real world. Cesor... censor...censor'. What has that got to do with me? Or most other 'normal' males? nothing, we don't abuse women.

Incidentally, I teach women self-defense, so I have a real problem with males who abuse women. Any man that uses violence against women (or a weaker person) is a P.O.S. and should be punished harshly by the authorities.

Now back to your whataboutisim, lets talk about 'real world problems' as depicted in 'imaginary rpg games'. If rape is so bad to have in 'passing', for the game's actual cannon. I presume you think it is a problem for women and somehow promotes violence or normalizes it in the real world Or that us white dudes have no empathy? I'd like to see some scientific evidence for that correlation (in rpg, games and violent films, etc.).

So we can't have rape mentioned 'off-screen' but yet we can have, god knows what, in other RPGs? All other violence and mayhem is acceptable. Drugs, cannibalism, torture, vile magic, human sacrifice, killing of children, vile monsters that do unspeakable things, sexual deviants, Xenomorphs that rape men and women - who's spawn erupts from a victims belly. I could go on and on... But you get the idea. Do those games propose people go off and do those things? Nope.

Basically, I find your problem with rape 'off screen' hypocritical considering burning people to death and eating women and children is okay. Go figure...

But would you not be better off just ignoring these games in the first place?

But hey, you do you as the saying goes.

Greetings!

*Laughng* Exactly, Rob!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on August 30, 2021, 02:51:09 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PMThat said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults.

Well mature in the sense of being un-squimish. I wouldn't really call Goblin Slayer 'Mature'. Its like how Family Guy is technically mature animation.

But overall having rape in games isn't really all that different then murder or slaughter or the like.

Yep, I'm talking about 'mature' as in an R rated or 18+. A lot of anime tends to be a little bit juvenile for my tastes (or has some very silly elements in it). I'm not a huge fan unless it's like the original Vampire Hunter D or something.

That's what I would think too. Especially given the fact, that it's of screen so-to-speak where as you could be slashing people to bits in game. Or gunning someone down in the street or having drug addiction, etc. Again, you could say these are comparable in some aspects to 'real life' events, that affect real people. But these are fine of course.

At the end of the day, if people want to be prudish or sensitive about certain subjects that's fine. It's really none of my business, and I don't care what they play, just as long as they don't try and control others.

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 03:04:51 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 01:49:04 PM

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 01:19:31 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. Just stick to rated G games then. Yes, in a game for adults, that depicts a brutal, medieval-like fantasy world, things like conquest, torture, and fucking rape happen. All the time. It's a common occurrence throughout history.

There's no need to tap-dance an write a product like it is aimed at blushing old women or children.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

D&D is a hobby for both children and adults.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Well... if you want to use the cannon as is, then you do. But again, this is more of a plot device, in order to spur the players into kicking the shit out of goblins and other evil folk. It highlights just how vile they really are. And it just shows how much the heroes are needed to protect the innocent. Remember, were not talking about showing the rape per se or letting it happen to a player. It something that occurs in a 'nebulous' fashion, it sexists in 'concept' and not in physical form per.

Is it not enough for them to kill and eat people? To butcher villages?

When a quarter of the male population in real life admits to being violent rapists (with plenty more not admitting to it), it's hard for me to see rape as a indicator of inhuman evil. Being a rapist or a victim is the normal state of existence for billions of people.

Couple of things.

RPGing is a game for everyone. True...
That said, this particular game is not and like many other dark games, it's aimed at mature adults. Same as horror films or disturbing media, you don't allow your kids to view, or play them. And most adults, who don't like that stuff have the common sense to stay away from it. No X-Cards around here... Step up and take responsibility for yourself and what you consume.

Now this other 'facts' you bring up (quarter of all men, I find that a touch dubious?). I would very much doubt it's that high (not in Ireland anyway).
But what the actual fcuk have they that got to do with an imaginary game? I tell you what, not a jot. This is the usual classic diversionary tactic. 'But but but... rape in the real world. Cesor... censor...censor'. What has that got to do with me? Or most other 'normal' males? nothing, we don't abuse women.

Incidentally, I teach women self-defense, so I have a real problem with males who abuse women. Any man that uses violence against women (or a weaker person) is a P.O.S. and should be punished harshly by the authorities.

Now back to your whataboutisim, lets talk about 'real world problems' as depicted in 'imaginary rpg games'. If rape is so bad to have in 'passing', for the game's actual cannon. I presume you think it is a problem for women and somehow promotes violence or normalizes it in the real world Or that us white dudes have no empathy? I'd like to see some scientific evidence for that correlation (in rpg, games and violent films, etc.).

So we can't have rape mentioned 'off-screen' but yet we can have, god knows what, in other RPGs? All other violence and mayhem is acceptable. Drugs, cannibalism, torture, vile magic, human sacrifice, killing of children, vile monsters that do unspeakable things, sexual deviants, Xenomorphs that rape men and women - who's spawn erupts from a victims belly. I could go on and on... But you get the idea. Do those games propose people go off and do those things? Nope.

Basically, I find your problem with rape 'off screen' hypocritical considering burning people to death and eating women and children is okay. Go figure...

But would you not be better off just ignoring these games in the first place?

But hey, you do you as the saying goes.

Greetings!

*Laughng* Exactly, Rob!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Cheers mate. 

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 02:20:19 PM
So we can't have rape mentioned 'off-screen' but yet we can have, god knows what, in other RPGs? All other violence and mayhem is acceptable. Drugs, cannibalism, torture, vile magic, human sacrifice, killing of children, vile monsters that do unspeakable things, sexual deviants, Xenomorphs that rape men and women - who's spawn erupts from a victims belly. I could go on and on... But you get the idea. Do those games propose people go off and do those things? Nope.

Basically, I find your problem with rape 'off screen' hypocritical considering burning people to death and eating women and children is okay. Go figure...

But would you not be better off just ignoring these games in the first place?

But hey, you do you as the saying goes.

I agree with you, actually. I think there's this weird preoccupation with gamers running these weird atrocity contests where we try to see who can design the most vicious monsters, generally with the intent to piss off distant SJWs. I'm satisfied with monsters being plain old bags of loot and XP. I don't need their actions to be detailed beyond "they do bad things, so we have to stop them." Real life is already chock full of awful shit like addiction, disenfranchisement, torture, modern day slavery, endemic rape, etc that's easily the equal of all but the most extreme grimdark fiction. I don't need that detailed in my elf-games because it ruins the escapism for me, unless we're playing heroes who end slavery or whatever.

I wouldn't mind a book about "adult themes" that discusses dealing with such issues in a nuanced and respectful manner for those interested. But in general I think fiction takes a rather flippant attitude towards violence that does a disservice to people who suffer it.

Quote from: SHARK on August 30, 2021, 03:03:03 PM
In a world that has slasher flicks with people being hacked apart by chainsaws, stabbed to death with ice-picks, or slowly skinned alive, with anal sex being taught to 6th graders in elementary schools, the joys of dildos, and 12 year old girls are watching gang-bangs on Pornhub on their Smart Phones every day...

This is precisely why I shy away from gruesome violence and sexual violence. It wrecks my escapism and comes across in poor taste.

When real teenage boys are being trained by their phones to see sex as a brutal act of violence and domination, seeing the same thing repeated in Japanese comics except with thinly-veiled "monsters" just reminds me of how shitty real life is. Humans are the real monsters.

I've been lurking here for a few months now, thinking about creating an account, but since I'm actually reading the Goblin Slayer light novels right now, this makes as good a thread as any to make my debut.

I'm really excited for the TTRPG. There is world building in the novels that isn't in the anime, and being based on roleplaying games in the first place means that it would translate quite easily to a playable experience, mechanically and narratively. This is a TTRPG for fans of the property, so sanitizing it so that it no longer represented the property would defeat the purpose of its very existence. And arguing that its existence is unnecessary is selfish.

Japan, in general, has always been more okay with extremity in their entertainment. In many ways, that's why Japanese entertainment is popular in the West, among both men and women (yaoi being an example of something that couldn't have come from anywhere but Japan). When Japan remakes a US or Korean show, they tend to add edge to it where none existed, and when the US or Korea remakes a Japanese property, they ultimately remove the sharp edges (Battle Royale vs Hunger Games, for example).

Judging, criticizing, and ultimately changing Japanese works solely from the perspective of an American is... we need a word that means the opposite of "cultural appropriation"... Cultural oppression, maybe? Cultural colonization? Nonconsensual cultural penetration?

I say let Japan keep the edge. After all, manga is currently outselling the entire US comic book industry 100 to 1. They must be doing something right.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 30, 2021, 01:49:04 PM
D&D is a hobby for both children and adults.

Not necessarily at the same time. That's a bit like saying "television is for both children and adults", ignoring the fact that Mickey's Clubhouse isn't intended for adults, and Spartacus: Blood and Sand isn't intended for children.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 30, 2021, 01:29:14 PMWhen a quarter of the male population in real life admits to being violent rapists (with plenty more not admitting to it), it's hard for me to see rape as a indicator of inhuman evil. Being a rapist or a victim is the normal state of existence for billions of people.

According to your link, 10,000 men were interviewed across nine sites in Bangladesh, Cambodia, China, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Papua New Guinea - all third world countries with high poverty, high crime, and outdated social norms. To my knowledge, they aren't releasing Goblin Slayer TTRPG in Cambodia or Sri Lanka, so the number of rapists there is irrelevant nor representative of the environment in which the game will be released.

Quote from: Squidi on August 30, 2021, 03:33:09 PM
Judging, criticizing, and ultimately changing Japanese works solely from the perspective of an American is... we need a word that means the opposite of "cultural appropriation"... Cultural oppression, maybe? Cultural colonization? Nonconsensual cultural penetration?

Censorship. It's censorship.

Anyway, I support free speech. While I think stories like Captain Marvel, Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, Redo of Healer, etc are all poorly written garbage, I support the rights of creators to create them and consumers to consume them.

If you legalize censorship to censor ideologies you don't like, then you open the possibility it will be used against you in turn. The best way to fight bad ideas is with education, debate, and experimentation.