Quote from: VisionStorm on January 28, 2022, 01:08:25 PMIt just has to use "humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices", which the show does in basically every single episode.

Thats such a broad view of satire, this makes anything with a comedic edge a satire or a comedy. I cannot debate such a viewpoint. Under such categorization 95% of all anime, all media even, is a satire or a comedy.

You win the semantics argument because you find it funny, ergo its good satire and comedy.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 28, 2022, 01:23:01 PM
Even 4chan thinks it's poorly written.

I don't care what 4chan thinks, but thats a great summation of everything I see as wrong with the show.

I love the tonal dissonance in Goblin Slayer. It's something I see all the time in RPGs, most obviously when a non-RPG IP like Star Wars gets translated into RPG form and has to deal with real people exploiting the rules. This is a big problem with artificial worlds in general. AFAICT Goblin Slayer is all about pointing out and having fun with this kind of stuff. Plus anime tits.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 28, 2022, 01:23:01 PM
Even 4chan thinks it's poorly written. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Goblin_Slayer#Criticism

QuoteAs stated above, this manga has garnered controversy thanks due in part to its inconsistent setting. It's a setting with two opposing sets of gods playing a D&D-like game with the entire world, of which the characters and people in it are distantly aware. Many arguments have been had over whether the worldbuilding is simple and spartan or simply lazy, and particularly over whether it is a realistic fantasy world. As always with Japanese fantasy settings, the usual skub about Adventurers Guilds are frequently brought up.

A common criticism is that goblins are a threat disregarded by most political powerholders in the regions in which the story is set. Despite constantly raiding and destroying villages, killing adventuring parties, and being a constant boogeyman to women everywhere, they continue to be seen as unimportant and low-priority. When multiple parties of adventurers are forced to go after a goblin nest, people complain that this proves the deadliness of goblins and how they should be treated as a far greater danger, particularly in the frontier region in which Goblin Slayer operates.

Another common criticism leveled at the setting is that it is tonally dissonant. Goblin Slayer applies a grim, gritty motif to goblins and all encounters with them: goblins use simple but brutal and effective tactics like poisoned weapons, ambushes, traps, etc. However, the rest of the world is filled with standard JRPG tropes, including common use of Fantasy Armor. As such, when a dragon-killing barbarian is slain by a single cunning goblin, there are complaints that the world is flipping between Heroic Fantasy and Grimdark Low Fantasy only when goblins are involved, written solely to be edgy and "dark".

Finally, one of the major criticisms regards Goblin Slayer and his tactics, which are presented in story as being the result of pragmatic strategizing. In particular, some criticize his choice to use low-end gear to limit the fallout of his death should it be looted by goblins, instead of simply wearing much better gear to both kill more goblins faster and make getting killed by goblins less likely. Others believe his tactics are ridiculously fantastical, or simply tryhard attempts at seeming intelligent.

Every argument in the world illustrating how Goblin Slayer's writing is shit is completely and utterly meaningless, even if delivered in such a way that it conclusively PROVES that the show's writing is in fact incoherent garbage, because absolutely NO ONE in the other side of this discussion is claiming that it's high art. The idea that the show's writing is shit is this red herring that gets constantly tossed by critics despite NOBODY here (or perhaps the internet AFAIK) ever, at ANY point, arguing on the basis of the show's writing quality. It's like:

QuoteRandom Commenter 1: You know, I find this show's critique of TTRPG tropes funny.

GS Hater: GS's writing is complete shit, therefore your argument is invalid.

Random Commenter 2: GS is almost all about D&D adventurers with JRPG and MMO elements thrown in.

GS Hater: GS's writing is complete shit, therefore your argument is invalid.

Random Commenter 3: For all the talk about rape in GS, there's only like one or two scenes about it in it, and all the rest is about RPG adventurers killing goblins.

GS Hater: GS's writing is complete shit, therefore your argument is invalid.

NONE of this actually addresses the thing that's being said. It merely makes an irrelevant point and value judgement that in no way invalidates what was actually said. It merely dismisses the subject being brought up as being unworthy of discussion without actually refuting anything.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 28, 2022, 01:37:41 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 28, 2022, 01:08:25 PMIt just has to use "humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices", which the show does in basically every single episode.

Thats such a broad view of satire, this makes anything with a comedic edge a satire or a comedy. I cannot debate such a viewpoint. Under such categorization 95% of all anime, all media even, is a satire or a comedy.

You win the semantics argument because you find it funny, ergo its good satire and comedy.

It's literally a copy/paste of the Google definition of "satire", with a bit added at the end to mention the fact that the show does this in every single episode.

Quote from: S'mon on January 28, 2022, 01:44:58 PM
I love the tonal dissonance in Goblin Slayer. It's something I see all the time in RPGs, most obviously when a non-RPG IP like Star Wars gets translated into RPG form and has to deal with real people exploiting the rules. This is a big problem with artificial worlds in general. AFAICT Goblin Slayer is all about pointing out and having fun with this kind of stuff. Plus anime tits.

Kind of like Order of the Stick but less disturbing?

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 28, 2022, 01:37:41 PM
I don't care what 4chan thinks, but thats a great summation of everything I see as wrong with the show.

I guess that makes two of us.

If I was writing GS, then I'd write it about humans banding together to exterminate all the goblins and other monsters from the face of the planet.

If I was writing a satire of TTRPG tropes, then I'd do that... e.g. I'd satirize the concept of hit points by depicting the character's bodies studded with weapons and missiles like pincushions but suffering no ill effects because their hit points are still above zero, satirize the concept of turning undead by depicting a luddite cleric use turning against windmills to make the mills burst into flames, satirize fantasy armor by having the adventurers (male and female) dress like strippers, etc. Actually, fantasy anime is already pretty much self-satire/self-parody but completely lacking in any self-awareness.

But I'm already working on stuff. In the scifi setting I'm currently working on, humanity is fighting against an infection that turns crews of infected ships into bio-circuitry. They are still alive and conscious throughout this, so attempts at communication simply return perpetual screaming and warnings of "Libera temet ex inferis!"

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 28, 2022, 02:52:23 PM

Quote from: S'mon on January 28, 2022, 01:44:58 PM
I love the tonal dissonance in Goblin Slayer. It's something I see all the time in RPGs, most obviously when a non-RPG IP like Star Wars gets translated into RPG form and has to deal with real people exploiting the rules. This is a big problem with artificial worlds in general. AFAICT Goblin Slayer is all about pointing out and having fun with this kind of stuff. Plus anime tits.

Kind of like Order of the Stick but less disturbing?

You havent read much Order of the Stick then.

Goof Lord! Goblin slayer is the anime adaption of Order of the Stick!!! It all makes sense now. Thank you.

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 28, 2022, 02:20:47 PMEvery argument in the world illustrating how Goblin Slayer's writing is shit is completely and utterly meaningless to me.

Im glad you confirmed it. 

Quotebecause absolutely NO ONE in the other side of this discussion is claiming that it's high art.

I said its shlock, and thats OK, and you got all defensive and claimed 'meta-commentary'.
Bullshit. Arguing politics is about on the same level as arguing with anime fan about the merit of anything.

Im not even discussing the shows sanctity or the like, or claiming its part of rape culture. You want to play it off like your fine calling it the shlocky low-tier seasonal anime trash that it is, but the second its criticized you get immensly defensive.

Arguing artistic merit of any sort (even of shlock in terms of relative shlock), is IMPOSSIBLE with you. Because its all subjective, but if you claim its shlock then it doesn't matter except all the criticisms are totally wrong anyway. You positioned your argumentation in such a way where its impossible to have a discussion about merits at all unless its praise.

Mad Max's Thunderdome was a better way to resolve such disagreements than endless forum posts. Maybe the RPG will have bitchin' goblin games -- of violence!  With an extra helping of violence!

(Oh, who am I kidding? It'll be ruined by a lack of anime tiddies...  )

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 28, 2022, 08:03:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 28, 2022, 02:20:47 PMEvery argument in the world illustrating how Goblin Slayer's writing is shit is completely and utterly meaningless to me.

Im glad you confirmed it. 

Quotebecause absolutely NO ONE in the other side of this discussion is claiming that it's high art.

I said its shlock, and thats OK, and you got all defensive and claimed 'meta-commentary'.
Bullshit. Arguing politics is about on the same level as arguing with anime fan about the merit of anything.

Im not even discussing the shows sanctity or the like, or claiming its part of rape culture. You want to play it off like your fine calling it the shlocky low-tier seasonal anime trash that it is, but the second its criticized you get immensly defensive.

Arguing artistic merit of any sort (even of shlock in terms of relative shlock), is IMPOSSIBLE with you. Because its all subjective, but if you claim its shlock then it doesn't matter except all the criticisms are totally wrong anyway. You positioned your argumentation in such a way where its impossible to have a discussion about merits at all unless its praise.

Whatever, dude. You're not arguing against anything I'm actually saying. And I explained it to you, and your response is to STILL argue against things I'm not saying and armchair psychoanalyze my presumed motivations as an "anime fan" despite the fact that IM NOT A FUCKIGN ANIME FAN. I've barely even watched animated shit in ANY CAPACITY (Japanese or otherwise) in my entire adult life and barely even give a shit about this show. In fact, I even got put off by anime as a teen cuz some of my friends kept watching it instead of playing TTRPGs the days we had agreed to play, when i didn't even like cartoons that much to begin with. The only reason I'm even responding is because your arguments are shit and I lack the bone in my head to ignore fallacious arguments or outright falsehoods, like the idea that GS somehow doesn't have satire, when its main redeeming feature is that it IS satirical. But apparently you don't understand WTF a red herring or logical fallacy even is.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 28, 2022, 02:57:17 PM
If I was writing GS, then I'd write it about humans banding together to exterminate all the goblins and other monsters from the face of the planet.

That happens in the second(?) book. Not off the planet, but all the adventurers band together to stop a goblin invasion. GS is largely a slice of life series based around a single town and its inhabitants, but the goblins are an infestation that is getting stronger and more dangerous due to a cult trying to resurrect the dark lord.

Quote...satirize fantasy armor by having the adventurers (male and female) dress like strippers, etc.

GS does, in fact, satirize this as well. Several times.

I think this conversation would be far more constructive if anybody here had bothered to actually read the light novels. The anime only covers the first two and a half volumes (the movie is volume 4), and skips a lot of the dialogue and explanation that answers a lot of complaints made against the series. For instance, the books go into great detail about why GS uses cheap, disposable weapons when fighting goblins, and yet that 4chan quote criticizes it as if there wasn't an explanation for it. Likely because whoever wrote that bit only watched the anime - likely dubbed and in the background while browsing reddit on their phone.

I gather the GS RPG is out, anybody looked at it?

Quote from: worrapol on August 16, 2022, 10:15:47 PM
I gather the GS RPG is out, anybody looked at it?

Is! I just ordered it. Will be here Friday, in theory.

Wish I could have gotten the Extra Special Deee-luxe Japanese version, but I value something I can actually read and won't take six months to get here.

Plus, like twenty bucks shipped. Not bad.

I am not familiar with this product, but the first few posts already show great potential for entertainment.

I preordered it and have had it for a little while. Have not had time for an in depth reading and to generate a few characters and try sole combat and spells, but it looks pretty good from a quick skim through it. Very thick book. Manga digest size and paper/print quality. Sparse B&W art.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter on August 17, 2022, 12:40:57 AM
I preordered it and have had it for a little while. Have not had time for an in depth reading and to generate a few characters and try sole combat and spells, but it looks pretty good from a quick skim through it. Very thick book. Manga digest size and paper/print quality. Sparse B&W art.

Yes, what I've seen of it, this rpg seems to be designed for the fans who already own practically everything related to the manga. That's also why it contains so little art. It was pretty much the same with the Konosuba ttrpg.