Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 01, 2021, 08:26:09 AMI would say eating a big-mac can be pretty satisfying, and as a whole the thing is a masterwork of culinary engineering, balancing price, with taste, with accessibility.
But outside of the short-term catharcis, the thing is horribly bad for you. Thats my opinion on the new slew of anime, and the whole isekai trend.

Well, for one, Goblin Slayer isn't isekai. It's traditional fantasy. And there's nothing wrong with the isekai genre itself, though it has been overplayed by ten. For instance, So I'm a Spider, So What? and Konosuba are really good. And drawing its origins back to Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz, the genre has longer legs than the current trends would suggest.

Second, I'm not arguing that anybody must like Goblin Slayer. My response was against the more objective arguments that it is lazy, poorly written, or overly cliched. Whether you like what is being offered versus what's being offered being objectively poor quality is two very different stances.

QuoteI get it, the west has been moving to shut down any source of just enjoyment that isn't propaganda puff pieces. But I find this trend of just carnal power fantasy just as worrying a counter-cultural force.

Goblin Slayer is in the tradition of highly respected and influential works such as Conan, Berserk, and Mad Max. The character of Goblin Slayer himself reminds me of Harmonica from Once Upon a Time in the West, which is one of my favorite movies.

All these works feature incredibly hostile worlds, which all the normal characters struggle to survive in. Success is impossible, and even survival seems unlikely. Enter the lone outsider, someone born and bred in war, who gave up his humanity a long time ago in pursuit of (usually) vengeance. Conan's strength comes from his abandonment of civilization, trading culture for pure animal power. Through this outsider's strength, these other characters gain the strength to not just survive, but also succeed.

Calling it a "carnal power fantasy" is missing the point of the work. Goblin Slayer isn't doing the raping, and his murdering of goblins is so workmanlike and pragmatic that there is no glory in it. Instead, he represents a single source of strength that allows the other characters to move forward. Even though his mission is simple and unchanging, his presence allows others move past their traumas, to overcome their hostile environment, and possibly for the first time, start thinking about a better tomorrow.

But, like I said, I'm not going to force anybody to enjoy it. I just think that people who write it off because of the presence of rape and violence to be missing the point. It may be that they never care to get the point, but their unwillingness to let others be content in their enjoyment of the work compels me to answer their attacks.

Quote from: Squidi on September 01, 2021, 11:11:07 AMWell, for one, Goblin Slayer isn't isekai. It's traditional fantasy.

The reincranation part of modern isekai are some of the least important parts about it. In general their protagonists are generic slatey (though generally misanthropic) in order for maximum self-insert.

This isn't Labyrinth where the takeaway is for some level of self-growth outside of the fantasy. Its not even Bookworm (which does get OP as fuck eventually), where outsider information is used for at least some level of drama (even if it goes nowhere).
Its not even John Carter of mars where at least the guy has a level of independant personality.

The Goblin slayer by being that generic empty slot may as well be an Isekai protagonist, just without those 5 minutes in the 'real word' set up.

QuoteGoblin Slayer is in the tradition of highly respected and influential works such as Conan, Berserk, and Mad Max.

Just like a Big Mac is in some shape and way related to the tradition of a burger made of quality beef and made at home. Im not a snob that will always look down at a burger. And I will eat at McDs sometimes. But there is a MILE of difference in quality.

Maybe the Light Novel is better (I HIGHLY doubt it considering SOA, and the general truth that most japanese light novels are garbage trash), but the anime is just generic self-insert stuff.

Anime fans (and LN fans) as a whole tend to overhype really shlocky writing out of somekind of embarassment: 'Oh so you see when the love interest goes topless it represents her willingness to use her nudity powers to the fullest finally overcoming the stigma her mother placed on her.

Its actually a metacomentary on sexuality. Not fanservice first that then tries to justify itself in-universe.

Reminds me of this:

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 01, 2021, 03:07:27 PM
The reincranation part of modern isekai are some of the least important parts about it. In general their protagonists are generic slatey (though generally misanthropic) in order for maximum self-insert.

Isekai literally means "other world". Reincarnation is not strictly necessary, but traveling to a separate dimension/world is for it to belong to that genre. Goblin Slayer has (as far as I've read) no elements/knowledge outside of its self-contained fantasy universe. It's just basic fantasy.

QuoteThe Goblin slayer by being that generic empty slot may as well be an Isekai protagonist, just without those 5 minutes in the 'real word' set up.

I think you'll find that the isekai genre actually has quite a few varieties of protagonist (including a literal vending machine). Most of the tropes in the recent fad (including reincarnation) seem to come directly from the web novel Mushoku Tensei. Now that's a power fantasy of an average guy who gets reborn into a fantasy universe who uses his external knowledge and mad gamer skills to min-max the system to defeat demon lords and build harems. Most of the isekai genre is a variation on that theme, only mixing it up when it comes to protagonists.

Goblin Slayer couldn't be further from that. Goblin Slayer was written by an avid Dungeons & Dragons player (Steve Jackson, Ian Livingstone, Dave Arneson, and Gary Gygax were even thanked in the author's notes) rather than a web novelist following trends or trying to translate their favorite iPhone gatcha game. There are many loving references to western fantasy (the elf archer repeatedly quotes Arthur C. Clarke, a burglar gives GS a riddle of "what's in my pocket") with the second book being a tribute to the kinds of mega dungeons you'd find in an RPG (they even fight a beholder). The author is one of us. His influences are our touchstones.

QuoteAnime fans (and LN fans) as a whole tend to overhype really shlocky writing out of somekind of embarassment: 'Oh so you see when the love interest goes topless it represents her willingness to use her nudity powers to the fullest finally overcoming the stigma her mother placed on her.

Outside of what is essentially the first scene in the first book (which is much tamer in the book than the anime and especially manga), there's no "onscreen" sex or rape. Instead, there are broken people that went through similar experiences, but it is always danced around and never explicitly shown. It's hard to say that it is gratuitous when it always happens off screen, often long before the heroes arrive.

That being said, hating things is easy. Someone who can only call things trash has no opinions worth listening to. Perhaps the anime fan's defense is little more than sophistry, but I'd much rather listen to the impassioned defense of something that inspires such passion rather than the boorish derision of an edgy teenager who can only define themselves in opposition to what is currently popular.

Quote from: Squidi on September 01, 2021, 04:42:34 PMIsekai literally means "other world".

Don't patronize me. Just because I dislike the direction the genre and industry is going in doesn't mean I don't 'watch enough' of this crap.

Isekai has become a slang term and a insult because of how trashy as a whole the genre is.
Goblin Slayer lacks reincarnation or otherworldy portals, but im saying that most modern isekai really don't take advantage of that stuff ANYWAY. Its like a Porno. The real reason your there is for the power fantasy crap. The stuff that orbits around it is generally table-dressing.

Goblin Slayer may not be haxxored, but he is the only compitent guy in the universe in regard to goblins, and so everybody else must be an idiot to make it all about how fuckin badass he is. And everybody must constantly heap praise on him, and the women must all be enamored with him. And anybody that hates him must be proven wrong or be punished by the end.

QuoteI think you'll find that the isekai genre actually has quite a few varieties of protagonist (including a literal vending machine).

Generally gimmicks or the minority. They have a tendency to become waifu trapshit over time regardless.

QuoteGoblin Slayer couldn't be further from that.

It really isn't. I could say its further away from that, but FURTHEST?

QuoteHis influences are our touchstones.

So what. Id say he took the shallowest elements from all the touchstones and made a shallow product from it.

QuoteOutside of what is essentially the first scene in the first book (which is much tamer in the book than the anime and especially manga), there's no "onscreen" sex or rape. Instead, there are broken people that went through similar experiences, but it is always danced around and never explicitly shown.

This is exactly what I mean by hyping mediocrity wrapped in justification.

'Me fucking your corpse (Or sleeping naked whatever) is totally wrapped in my backstory. For real! Its not cringeworthy because its deep and shit!'

QuotePerhaps the anime fan's defense is little more than sophistry, but I'd much rather listen to the impassioned defense of something that inspires such passion rather than the boorish derision of an edgy teenager who can only define themselves in opposition to what is currently popular.

Ah the classic 'You only dislike it because your a meenie/you only hate it because its popular/you must hate EVERYTHING' defense, I was wondering when that was gonna pop up.

Anyway In conclusion I think Goblin Slayer is garbage, but its garbage that deserves the same rights as everything else.

I just pre-ordered.  Says it should be out sometime in April. 

https://smile.amazon.com/Goblin-Slayer-Tabletop-Roleplaying-Game/dp/1975318315/

Last update I had seen from Yen Press was a release date of February 2022, but seeing your post had me go to their site to double check and they are now saying 04/19/22.

https://yenpress.com/9781975318314/goblin-slayer-tabletop-roleplaying-game/

I wonder how long before all the conventions ban people from playing this game.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 21, 2021, 10:29:52 AM
It's already a banned topic at TBP.

If it's banned by those bed wetters then it's an instant buy from me.

Honestly, I'm not interested in patronizing a game where the sole selling point is "goblins are raping our women!" It feels tacky and misogynistic.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 17, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
Honestly, I'm not interested in patronizing a game where the sole selling point is "goblins are raping our women!" It feels tacky and misogynistic.

Yeah... But that's not the main selling point, now, is it?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 17, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
Honestly, I'm not interested in patronizing a game where the sole selling point is "goblins are raping our women!" It feels tacky and misogynistic.

If that is what you think is the main selling point of the RPG or even the anime/manga/light novel you have zero clue as to that which you speak.

I've watched the anime and found that it was pretty enjoyable. In no way does the series or the movie glorify rape.

I might pick up the game for the setting background and to just provide support for something that pisses off the woke scolds.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim on January 17, 2022, 01:31:34 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 17, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
Honestly, I'm not interested in patronizing a game where the sole selling point is "goblins are raping our women!" It feels tacky and misogynistic.

If that is what you think is the main selling point of the RPG or even the anime/manga/light novel you have zero clue as to that which you speak.

I tried watching it. The first episode was... repulsive, but I powered thru despite my immediate misgivings. I gave up after the third episode, I think? Aside from the rape, it was bland and generic.

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 17, 2022, 01:56:24 PM
I've watched the anime and found that it was pretty enjoyable. In no way does the series or the movie glorify rape.

I might pick up the game for the setting background and to just provide support for something that pisses off the woke scolds.

Saw doesn't glorify torture either, but it's still torture-porn.

Like most media that depicts rape, GS depicts rape as voyeuristic torture-porn. The victims are voluptuous underage girls (the dialogue says they're 15) who are posed in a manner that shows off their assets. They're raped repeatedly, forced to give birth, flayed alive, and nailed to shields. To say it's repulsive is putting it mildly: This is torture-porn.

I disagree with the wokescolds as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to buy torture-porn to feel good about myself. When I see people get tortured in media, I feel sympathetic pain. Especially when they look they could be my son or daughter. So I don't watch that stuff.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 17, 2022, 03:15:08 PM
The victims are voluptuous underage girls (the dialogue says they're 15) who are posed in a manner that shows off their assets.

You may need to double check your facts on this one because the age of consent in Japan is significantly lower then it is in the US. As such they are not underaged for the culture that this came from. I'm sick and tried of Americans thinking only in terms of their country and culture.

While there is a certain about of exploitation-film style voyeurism, isn't the core point to establish that in setting goblins are utterly, irredeemably evil and their extermination is completely justified?