Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 06:15:58 PMBut that's because I go for a very narrative-heavy and character-driven game myself, and specifically find that (and have players that find that) more interesting than doing some quick math to find the most efficient way to get to the next 10' room and beat up the orc there for his pie.

I don't even want to know what's in that orc pie.  Whatever it is, I'm not having a slice.

Quote from: Bren on May 19, 2021, 09:38:19 PM

Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 06:15:58 PMBut that's because I go for a very narrative-heavy and character-driven game myself, and specifically find that (and have players that find that) more interesting than doing some quick math to find the most efficient way to get to the next 10' room and beat up the orc there for his pie.

I don't even want to know what's in that orc pie.  Whatever it is, I'm not having a slice.

Well in my campaigns, organ meat, cooked-down Spartan Black Broth, roughage for fiber, and a thick gluten-free coffin crust strictly for preservation of the pie, as was tradition.

There are several reasons, most good. Some not.

In Heinlein's 'stranger in a strange land"  writer Jubal Harshaw  deliberately makes a mistaken in a poem he wrote and tells someone "You've got to give an editor something to change. After he pees in it it likes the flavor better." Maybe some people are just the kind who are like that.

In other cases maybe the writers or editors decided to leave something out to make the game easier to play and appeal to the broader market to increase sales. I mean, how many games use locational hits anymore instead of general hit points? Hit points are much faster and easier. Maybe you like locational hits better. I kinda wish EP had locational hits but given the extent of what can be called a body in EP making hit tables for everything would be a colossal task and the game is already crunchier than a gravel sandwich. But maybe some players add locational hit rules ton their games.

Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 10:22:11 PM

Quote from: Bren on May 19, 2021, 09:38:19 PM

Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 06:15:58 PMBut that's because I go for a very narrative-heavy and character-driven game myself, and specifically find that (and have players that find that) more interesting than doing some quick math to find the most efficient way to get to the next 10' room and beat up the orc there for his pie.

I don't even want to know what's in that orc pie.  Whatever it is, I'm not having a slice.

Well in my campaigns, organ meat, cooked-down Spartan Black Broth, roughage for fiber, and a thick gluten-free coffin crust strictly for preservation of the pie, as was tradition.

I understand why the helots might find chopped up overlord as an ingredient acceptable, maybe even fitting in a Greek mythological way, but I'm still skipping it.

Quote from: Bren on May 19, 2021, 11:23:55 PM

Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 10:22:11 PM

Quote from: Bren on May 19, 2021, 09:38:19 PM

Quote from: robertliguori on May 19, 2021, 06:15:58 PMBut that's because I go for a very narrative-heavy and character-driven game myself, and specifically find that (and have players that find that) more interesting than doing some quick math to find the most efficient way to get to the next 10' room and beat up the orc there for his pie.

I don't even want to know what's in that orc pie.  Whatever it is, I'm not having a slice.

Well in my campaigns, organ meat, cooked-down Spartan Black Broth, roughage for fiber, and a thick gluten-free coffin crust strictly for preservation of the pie, as was tradition.

I understand why the helots might find chopped up overlord as an ingredient acceptable, maybe even fitting in a Greek mythological way, but I'm still skipping it.

Fair! Remember, kids, it's not cannibalism if you're not the same species, it's just sapiophaghy! So, you don't need to worry about prion diseases, just being cursed by the gods to sicken and rise as a ghoul for non-prion-related reasons!

In my own system, in addition to being able to hire folks, each of the backgrounds had some type of option for some type of minion or companion (artisans and arcanists could have apprentices, a religious might have acolytes). Some backgrounds could even have an entire staff of sorts.

The Aristocrat, for example could begin with an entire lance/retinue if they picked appropriate options; a squire, three men-at-arms (a typical number of troops along with themselves and their squire required for a knight to bring when called up by their liege) and three non-combat followers (for a knight a valet, page and porter were recommended).

Having followers available definitely helped round out and establish PCs in the world a bit better; an artisan adventurer with apprentices had greater freedom to go on quests knowing their apprentices could mind the store for several days while they went to gather up the exotic materials needed for a particular commission.

The outlaw similarly could get a lot of use out of having lackeys (lookouts, pickpockets, guys to lug the loot), a band of thugs (for more aggressive criminal acts) and/or a ruthless enforcer.

Most interesting was when the players coordinated a bit and decided to all play aristocrats from the same family and used their starting background options to start with an entire household and small area of lands already in place and a pre-established goal for an otherwise sandbox campaign of trying to grow their family's wealth and influence.

Without having such a straight forward way of having minions, I don't know that such a concept would have ever occurred to the players.

Trying to run one character can be a handful and "letting" the GM do it can feel like you are just a Watcher in the game if not careful.

Running 5e, these days most of the PC groups have minions & henchmen. They almost always take good care of their followers and try to keep them alive, so typically death rates are low and loyalty high. My son likes to boast about how his PCs hardly ever lose followers!

Having competent NPCs in with the party is very valuable I find, for one thing it makes the group a lot more robust to player absences. It allows the GM to point out IC stuff that should be obvious in-world but players overlook (you can do it OOC too of course, but IC can be less immersion breaking). And threatening NPC lives creates a greater sense of danger without needing too many dead PCs.

Quote from: S'mon on May 28, 2021, 05:28:36 AM
Running 5e, these days most of the PC groups have minions & henchmen. They almost always take good care of their followers and try to keep them alive, so typically death rates are low and loyalty high. My son likes to boast about how his PCs hardly ever lose followers!

Having competent NPCs in with the party is very valuable I find, for one thing it makes the group a lot more robust to player absences. It allows the GM to point out IC stuff that should be obvious in-world but players overlook (you can do it OOC too of course, but IC can be less immersion breaking). And threatening NPC lives creates a greater sense of danger without needing too many dead PCs.

All good points! The one specific point I'd make is that because 5E is big on bounded accuracy, and because magic item atunement is a thing, then there is greater-than-average returns from having a handful of low-level combat minions accompanying the PCs around, since bounded accuracy means that they will almost always be able to potentially hit and they can suck up any magic items requiring atunement that the PCs don't want, but as GM, you can just account for this in terms of encounter balance and magic item budgeting.