Quote from: GnomeWorks;1089187Supposedly there were going to be more indepth vehicle rules, are those in there? That'd be my primary reason for picking it up.

There are several pages of rules for ships. I haven't read them closely enough to comment.

I'm in the group that thinks the population is all messed up.

IIRC:
U1 indicated a population of (ISTR) 2,000 people
DMG2 (set 30 years after U1, with significant growth) indicated 3,500 people
GoSM indicates 5,000 people, with a much smaller town than the DMG2, albeit with some off-map activity that potentially could add a few hundred souls. 5,000 is a crazy figure, even without looking at the town map which clearly doesn't support such. Right now I am thinking it is either a typo, or a miscommunication.

I'll need to review the GoSM description of the town in more detail, but I'm thinking something along the lines of:
1000 permanent residents
250 pass-throughs (ship crews, land-traders, etc)
250 at the mine

According to S John Ross' medieval demographic a town of 5,000 people covers 82 acres which is a square roughly 1900 feet by 1900 feet.

https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/demographics/

This is a map of Saltmarsh
http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=105330&d=1552310131&stc=1

I would say maybe? It narrower than 1900' but stretches for quite a bit north and south to almost 3,000 feet. Compress it and looks like it will fill a 1900' by 1900' square.

Quote from: estar;1089209According to S John Ross' medieval demographic a town of 5,000 people covers 82 acres which is a square roughly 1900 feet by 1900 feet.

https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/demographics/

This is a map of Saltmarsh
http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=105330&d=1552310131&stc=1

I would say maybe? It narrower than 1900' but stretches for quite a bit north and south to almost 3,000 feet. Compress it and looks like it will fill a 1900' by 1900' square.

Greetings!

Yeah, I haven't ever taken geographical maps and demographics with WOTC seriously. I have always preferred my own campaign world. I can just use the skeleton of Saltmarsh, provide some expanded maps on my own, and increase the population to being a coastal town of 10,000 people. Naturally, I don't even have to use the name of Saltmarsh. I just slot the businesses and NPC's into my own coastal town, and whalaa! Done. I still think that the adventure book is cool, and very useful. Lots of fun things in it to get your hands on!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK;1088941Spinachcat, do you have GHOSTS OF SALTMARSH? What do you think of the new book so far?

WotC is on my "Fuck Off and Die" list so if I do get interested in any product from them, I purchase it 2nd hand off eBay or a convention flea market.

I don't remember U1-3 well enough from the old days. I didn't own it, but the friend who did was a poor DM so I don't have any firm recollection of how much of the adventure I actually played. I've heard good things about the original modules over the years so eventually I will probably snag the PDFs or physical copies of the originals.

How much WotC blather is in the product?  From what everyone has said thus far, I'm not suspecting any, but seven times bitten, many times shy of the blather hydra ...

Well, there is a higher percentage of female npcs in power than you expect, but not so overly done as in the SCAG (which was an editorial gloss as the same npcs generally had male pronouns after the initial paragraph in which they were introduced). The sargents of the town guard are men married to each other (I could understand being lovers, but most peasants are not in legal marriages, just common law arrangements: same sex marriage in Greyhawk stretches believability for me), but it is ignorable.

Is it just me or is it kind of sad that all wotc does anymore is to regurgitate the past?  It's like the movie industry with all the sequels and reboots.

Quote from: goblinslayer;1089297Is it just me or is it kind of sad that all wotc does anymore is to regurgitate the past?  It's like the movie industry with all the sequels and reboots.

Those who cannot create, regurgitate.

Quote from: goblinslayer;1089297Is it just me or is it kind of sad that all wotc does anymore is to regurgitate the past?  It's like the movie industry with all the sequels and reboots.

After Dungeon of the Mad Mage it not surprising they went and did an adventure that was more straightforward to create. That thing is a beast!

Quote from: KingofElfland;1089295Well, there is a higher percentage of female npcs in power than you expect, but not so overly done as in the SCAG (which was an editorial gloss as the same npcs generally had male pronouns after the initial paragraph in which they were introduced). The sargents of the town guard are men married to each other (I could understand being lovers, but most peasants are not in legal marriages, just common law arrangements: same sex marriage in Greyhawk stretches believability for me), but it is ignorable.

That's good to know, but I'm asking more about the vapid and extended prose that serves no gaming purpose that has so infected their products.  As you say, an occasional bit can be used, changed, or ignored as desired.

I'm hoping they come out with a Greyhawk supplement before too long, though I know it's not on their immediate "to do" list. From the tiefling priestess being able to operate in an otherwise civilized and human-dominant settlement I'm getting a kind of Deadwood feeling to this version of Saltmarsh.

I also kind of wish they had some kind of trading rules to use in case the PCs decide to do the sea merchant thing for a bit.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1089310That's good to know, but I'm asking more about the vapid and extended prose that serves no gaming purpose that has so infected their products.  As you say, an occasional bit can be used, changed, or ignored as desired.

Greetings!

Steve Mitchell, I am curious what kind of "vapid and extended prose that serves no gaming purpose that has so infected their products." I'm not disagreeing with you, merely enjoying a few examples of such to crystalize it in my mind. Moreso, however, what is your take on why they do this? What purpose are they seeking to accomplish?

Also, pointing to what they are doing poorly--what would you like to see them do *instead*--and why do they not do that? You know?

Good stuff, Steve!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK;1089320Greetings!

Steve Mitchell, I am curious what kind of "vapid and extended prose that serves no gaming purpose that has so infected their products." I'm not disagreeing with you, merely enjoying a few examples of such to crystalize it in my mind. Moreso, however, what is your take on why they do this? What purpose are they seeking to accomplish?

Also, pointing to what they are doing poorly--what would you like to see them do *instead*--and why do they not do that? You know?

Good stuff, Steve!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Exhibit A--pretty much all the free text (i.e. not mechanics) in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.  That's not the only example, as WotC is prone to it, but it's the most recent before I almost quit buying their stuff altogether.  Basically, the text is a not organized for anything but reading, and it doesn't have much gaming content in it that would be useful to player or GM.  And even if it did, you can't find it behind the wall of text.  In this case of that product in particular, it sticks out as not even being very well written blather.  

I'm still willing to buy a WotC product every now and then if it has primarily good gaming content.  I'm not willing to buy their phoned-in fan fiction that most people would be ashamed to post for free on a blog.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1089333Exhibit A--pretty much all the free text (i.e. not mechanics) in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

I imagine that much of that stems from the Green Ronin taint in that product.