Quote from: Simlasa;725988I was feeling kinda similar about the Dungeon Crawl Classics fans lately. Not that they're hipsters but that there is little tolerance for criticism/naysaying... a bit too much hero worship of Goodman, Bishop and Stroh. It's kinda culty.

DCC fans are pretty obnoxious over a game that basically just stole a bunch of ideas from wfrp and stuck them into basic d&d.

I'm enjoying the hell out of our Dungeon World game right now, but mainly because it's being used for something we couldn't rightly use D&D for in any of its incarnations.  (We're doing Locke Lamora/Ocean's Eleven heist/cons in a city very similar to Thieves World).  I engage with the fanbase only a little bit, but haven't noticed any problems different than the kind of zealousness that goes with any other system.  

Then again, I think most or all fan bases have their immense share of tools, and maybe I just auto-filter.  I certainly don't consider Dungeon World's to be as problematic as Exalted or Shadowrun's.

I dunno, I buy the games and the community membership is free. I didn't need it and I got what I paid for.

Thank goodness no-one releases games which are half-finished and rely on community updates to explain how to play them and distribute errata, right?

Quote from: Snowman0147;726034Seriously I had a friend of mine said that his group was acting like fucktards and not getting the hint in how to kill the monster in a hunter game.  OMG was he jumped on by one of the admins.  She was on his throat and I was the only voice of reason.  Being polite as I can I tried to diffused the whole thing.  Then she started to get on my case and accused me of bullshit.

I know my friend meant no ill will towards anyone one and it was just a harmless sentence.  This woman, however, went psycho on him.  Pretty much killed the happy environment.  My friend got the hint and left the chat.  When the owner came in I gave him my complaint and he sided with the admin.  So I left that chat.  No chat is worth watching a friend get jump on by some admin with agenda, or chip on his/her shoulder.

So... your friend misread the community's norms and thought it would be OK to use the word "fucktard" in conversation with a bunch of strangers? Eh, that's not elitism.

"People are dicks about silly shit. News at 11."

I hear you, OP. My fellow Savage Worlds fans get on my nerves sometimes, too.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;726080something we couldn't rightly use D&D for in any of its incarnations.  (We're doing Locke Lamora/Ocean's Eleven heist/cons in a city very similar to Thieves World).  

Wait, what?

Quote from: The Butcher;726095Wait, what?

Which part is causing the trouble, that we're doing Locke Lamora/Ocean's 11 or that I think DW handles it better than D&D would?

Assuming that I think DW handles that kind of play better is the issue, I think that DW's three possible results to most tests works better for con games like something out of Leverage or the Gentlemen Bastards.  DW veers toward "Success/Success with Compromise or Condition/Failure" which suits that kind of play better for us.  Also, its social conflict rules, like Parleying, give us a much more useful set of outcomes.

YMMV, obviously.  But the resulting game has been much more fun for us than if we'd played some flavor of D&D, and I'm hard-pressed to think of a better system for it.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;726119Assuming that I think DW handles that kind of play better is the issue, I think that DW's three possible results to most tests works better for con games like something out of Leverage or the Gentlemen Bastards.  DW veers toward "Success/Success with Compromise or Condition/Failure" which suits that kind of play better for us.  Also, its social conflict rules, like Parleying, give us a much more useful set of outcomes.

Does that not just codify stuff that people would otherwise be using their imagination for? I mean I see what you're saying but I keep hearing "training wheels".

Quote from: smiorgan;726082So... your friend misread the community's norms and thought it would be OK to use the word "fucktard" in conversation with a bunch of strangers? Eh, that's not elitism.

Actually no.  The rules of the chat was one big picture of Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure.  With the words saying stay cool and awesome.  That was their rules of the chat.  Just a picture of two guys giving each other a high five with a little message.

So given what we are presented I can tell you he thought he can say that and be fine.  He wasn't targeting the mentally disabled when he said that.  He was saying his group was being stupid and nothing else.

Frankly I fail to see why the word fucktard is so special that it needs special attention.  It is just as bad as any other word that insults some one's intelligence.

Quote from: The Traveller;726121Does that not just codify stuff that people would otherwise be using their imagination for? I mean I see what you're saying but I keep hearing "training wheels".

All rules do that. On some level, rules intervene between the outcome we imagine and what happens in game.  But we turn to game rules so that we have some way to regulate outcomes, and to mediate outcomes between multiple players in the game who may have opposing goals.  

In the case of a lot of systems, that outcome is binary -- success or failure.  Some of them gloss it a bit, by adding "Dramatic Success" and "Dramatic Failure" to the outcomes in extreme cases.  And some of them -- success/pool systems -- have ways of gauging the quality of success, but still leave one dimension to failure.  Dungeon World appeals to us and our games revolving around cons and heists because you have one type of success, one kind of failure, and then one "hybrid" success/failure outcome.  We like that hybrid outcome, because it's not simply failure, and it reflects the last-minute twists and turns of the heist/con genre.

Quote from: The Traveller;726121Does that not just codify stuff that people would otherwise be using their imagination for? I mean I see what you're saying but I keep hearing "training wheels".

The longest two campaigns I ever ran were under Amber DRPG.

You children are still using dice?

Pshaw.  Amateurs.

Quote from: Snowman0147;726127Frankly I fail to see why the word fucktard is so special that it needs special attention.  It is just as bad as any other word that insults some one's intelligence.

FYI, mentally disabled hate the word 'retard' the way black people hate the word 'n*gger'. People have largely stopped saying the N word because they don't want to be considered douchebags, or get punched in the mouth by a black person. Same with the word 'kike'.  People still use the word 'retard' (and in fact, it's used more now than it was 10 or 15 years go) because nobody's afraid of pissing off mentally disabled people, who don't tend to speak up for themselves.

So I'll speak up on their behalf. Don't use the word 'retard' or 'fucktard'. Whether you like it or not, it makes you come across like a douchebag.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;726128All rules do that. On some level, rules intervene between the outcome we imagine and what happens in game.  But we turn to game rules so that we have some way to regulate outcomes, and to mediate outcomes between multiple players in the game who may have opposing goals.  

Sure, without rules there wouldn't be a game, that goes without saying, it would just be people sitting around having a conversation. However as far as RPGs go the rules should exist to enable the imagination, not restrict it, so in certain cases less is more. I wrote a little on the topic of the purpose of rules here.

I guess a lot would depend on your playstyle. I'm used to just taking what the players want to do and running with it. They roll a dice, barely fail, they slip down the cliff a few dozen feet but don't plunge to their dooms. The same roll, succeed well, they nimbly scamper up and nobody heard a  thing. I'm playing with the players as part of the group, not in an adversarial or god-mode role.

Quote from: daniel_ream;726129The longest two campaigns I ever ran were under Amber DRPG.

You children are still using dice?

Pshaw.  Amateurs.

I loves me the sweet music of click, rattle'n'roll.

Quote from: Snowman0147;726127Actually no.  The rules of the chat was one big picture of Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure.  With the words saying stay cool and awesome.  That was their rules of the chat.  Just a picture of two guys giving each other a high five with a little message.

So given what we are presented I can tell you he thought he can say that and be fine.  He wasn't targeting the mentally disabled when he said that.  He was saying his group was being stupid and nothing else.

Frankly I fail to see why the word fucktard is so special that it needs special attention.  It is just as bad as any other word that insults some one's intelligence.

"I was in this pub in Glasgow an all I did was call this bloke a c*nt, and he glassed me in the face. I don't understand what his problem is, didn't he realise I was being ironic? We all call each other c*nts ironically in London."

Quote from: Haffrung;726133FYI, mentally disabled hate the word 'retard' the way black people hate the word 'n*gger'. People have largely stopped saying the N word because they don't want to be considered douchebags, or get punched in the mouth by a black person. Same with the word 'kike'.  People still use the word 'retard' (and in fact, it's used more now than it was 10 or 15 years go) because nobody's afraid of pissing off mentally disabled people, who don't tend to speak up for themselves.

So I'll speak up on their behalf. Don't use the word 'retard' or 'fucktard'. Whether you like it or not, it makes you come across like a douchebag.

One problem.  I am mentally disable and find no problem with the word.  Especially how it was used on that day which was not directed at all to the mentally disabled.  Also your not going to speak on anyone's behalf.  You do not speak for me nor do you speak for anyone else other than yourself.

So how about this.  Don't be a PC police man and tell people what to do.

Quote from: Veilheim;725963Okay, look.  I like Dungeon World.  I do.  I really think it's a fun game with some great approaches.  I love that its very hackable and you can do a ton with it pretty easily.  I enjoy running it, I like playing it...  To me, it's a great little system.  

BUT OH MY FUCKING GOD, the community surrounding DW (particularly on G+) is full of absolutely insufferable Gen-Y'ers who are convinced they and they alone can define what good right fun and bad wrong fun are.  I watched it happen again tonight.  But, of course, were I to call it Hipster World, the RPG, I'd be tarred and feathered over there.

So, instead, I just came to the "safe" game place on the internet where it's okay to say less than completely PC comments to get it off my fucking chest.  

Thanks.

It comes with the territory--it's a "new school" game, which means it attracts loads of pretentious nerds whose vision of an RPG is an epic storytelling session.