Quote from: jedimastert;294795Previous editions of D&D are not like software or technology. 4E is not an upgrade over 3.5E (or OD&D, AD&D, 2E, etc.). It is just different.

It's an upgrade! Like XP and Vista!

:eek:

Quote from: RPGPunditThe real question is: what is the alternative?

As droog already noted, Monopoly never had multiple editions or supplements. And people cloned it quite happily with lots of games which were basically the same yet cosmetically different. And free pdfs of the board and cards are available here and there.

Yet it's one of the most successful games ever made, and is still making Hasbro millions.

When selling things, you can try to get more money out of the same number of customers (thus the supplement mill), or you can try to increase your number of customers (advertise it!) It's pretty hard to do both.

I think a viable alternative is going for more customers. There are lots of ways to approach it. A good way is by turning the weakness (people who enjoy fantasy go to computer games) into a strength (they can get the same experience, but a social one). As one D&D advert said,



It doesn't seem like Wizards or White Wolf or anyone are trying to expand their customer base, just get more money from existing customers.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;295374It doesn't seem like Wizards or White Wolf or anyone are trying to expand their customer base, just get more money from existing customers.

It would take more than advertising to be successful. You'd have to have complete, replayable indefinitely "Basic" versions of your games written for complete newcomers. Like TSR did with Basic D&D back in the late 1970s through the early 1990s. People coming into a bookstores after an ad for 3.x or 4e would take one look at the 3 core books and 99% of them would decide to buy something else.  The industry does a horrible job at making good intro games.  They are either not complete games (4e Starter Set), not really written for beginners (GURPS Lite), and/or way overpriced to be a good impulse buy item.

Yes probably the single biggest thing that made RPing as big as it was in the 80's was TSR losing the lawsuit with Arneson that forced them to but out the basic stuff...

Quote from: RandallS;295412It would take more than advertising to be successful. You'd have to have complete, replayable indefinitely "Basic" versions of your games written for complete newcomers.

That may be, or may not be. I don't know. Perhaps someone will commercialise a retro-clone and show us how it's done.

I'm simply saying that there are two basic approaches to growing any business: return customers or new customers. It's hard to get both, any business ends up focusing on one or the other. The "supplement mill" is obviously about return customers.

So when it was asked, "if no supplement mill, what's the alternative?" well I said, "try to get new customers." Advertising's a part of that. If you focus on return customers you don't need advertising; their last experience with the company is the advertising. If people enjoyed the steak and chips at my restaurant last week then they'll get it again this week; if they bought Supplement A and liked it they'll buy Supplements B, C, D, etc.

If you want new customers, you have to have advertising.

It's not the only thing you need, but it's what you have to begin with.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;295374It's an upgrade! Like XP and Vista!

:eek:


As droog already noted, Monopoly never had multiple editions or supplements. And people cloned it quite happily with lots of games which were basically the same yet cosmetically different. And free pdfs of the board and cards are available here and there.

Yet it's one of the most successful games ever made, and is still making Hasbro millions.

When selling things, you can try to get more money out of the same number of customers (thus the supplement mill), or you can try to increase your number of customers (advertise it!) It's pretty hard to do both.

I think a viable alternative is going for more customers. There are lots of ways to approach it. A good way is by turning the weakness (people who enjoy fantasy go to computer games) into a strength (they can get the same experience, but a social one). As one D&D advert said,



It doesn't seem like Wizards or White Wolf or anyone are trying to expand their customer base, just get more money from existing customers.

That is precisely my feeling as well.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;295495That is precisely my feeling as well.

RPGPundit

Agreed.