Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 04:35:22 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 13, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.

Nah, it takes like 20 seconds and no charge to query the NSOPW. 
Hell they could do it anytime after ordering and before printing the badge or check it on arrival when their staff checks whether your other papers are in order.
WoTC says the are doing background checks on judges since that Jeremy Hambly exposed the MtG pedo judges.
I highly suspect that's why GenCon really banned him when he was the victim of an attack offsite two years later.

This is one of those times where exaggerating on the internet is truly not helpful. While an actual search for a proper name based on an ID might take 20 seconds to type into that search engine, that's not in a practical sense how this process would function. Because you're not dealing with a copy of someone's ID just popping up on a screen for you to enter - you're dealing with whatever name they put in the database for ticketing to begin with, with likely no other information like their permanent official address on record with the state and their date of birth and such. It would be a process fraught with errors and those errors make things crawl. This is not a practical solution.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?

Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.

Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.

My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.

Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed.  (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)

Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.

That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.

Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be?  All of a sudden, these last few years?

But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.

And that's the crux of his "argument".

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?

Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.

Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.

My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.

Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed.  (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)

Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.

That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.

Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be?  All of a sudden, these last few years?

But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.

And that's the crux of his "argument".

Greetings!

Well, anyone that believes that the abuser is a "woman" must be an absolutely delusional moron. The abuser is a *man* that was wearing a dress and a fucking wig.

Geesus. It is so sad and pathetic that our society has become so mentally infantile and delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 13, 2022, 07:57:31 PM

Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
This seems to be a very clear case of a man sexually harassing a woman, perhaps even sexual assault. He acted horribly towards this woman. As DocJones keenly observed, as per Gen Con's usual response to incidents such as this, why didn't Gen Con immediately ban him from the convention, and release a public statement about how deplorable and terrible the man is?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It's a trans person, so gen con is probably trying to figure out how to approach this. Wokists eating themselves. They hit on a situation where they have to see who is more of a victim. I mean, they need to check their charts about who is most oppressed. I think, in a way, they're in a jam.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Good point, my friend. There I go again, assuming logic, common sense, and truth.

One has to expect the woke fucking crybabies at Gen Con to always embrace the opposite.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?

Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?

- Ed C.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM
And that's the crux of his "argument".

No, my argument is that we don't have the details and folks are stepping over each other to speak up in this case because it gives them a chance to pat each other on the back about recognizing the "danger of those scary people that we warned you about." I suggested that the interest in this case was less about protecting the victim, who has a voice and got an outcome she wanted from GenCon.

Either you want to punish the attacker or you want to improve the safety of women at conventions.

But the "punish the attacker" is a similar situation to that of Bill Webb: the victim has a voice and is willing to advocate for herself. Folks were willing to accept that about BJ Hensley.

Or improving the safety of women at conventions is a much more complicated topic than just "don't force the cisgender and transgender to share rooms," which wouldn't make an appreciable difference. I can personally attest that cisgender women can imbibe too much and then sexually assault someone.

The better outcome might just be "forcing folks to share rooms with strangers is fraught with dangers."

But, like I pointed out, and RPG Pundit later ALSO pointed out, we don't know the facts about how they got this room. It might have been something they worked out themselves.

I personally know of cisgender members of the opposite sex who shared a room platonically because they arranged for it ahead of time. So, regardless of the facts about who is more likely to assault a woman, be they men or women themselves, ... GenCon doesn't prevent cisgender men and cisgender women from sharing a space if they agreed ahead of time.

So unless you hear that she was forced into a situation unwillingly, we just can't draw a conclusion about that.

But, to reiterate: the victim sought help from the organizers that put her there, she got an outcome she seems happy with, and I suspect we should let the woman have her voice.

1) Anyone attending GenCon deserves what they get. Kneel to the woketards, get assfucked. Idiotic GenCon required face diapers! And hosted racially segregated events! What a utter embarrassing laughable joke. If you choose to give them your time and money, take the monkeypox dick up your ass without complaint.

2) There is no such thing as "cisgender" or "transgender". These are bullshit terms of marxists who need a bullet through their empty heads. Mentally ill transvestites don't get to change reality nor our language.

3) Why is anyone believing the stronk wahmen who wrote this screed? While its good for a laugh in Clown World, where is the police report? Anybody seen one?

Quote from: Spinachcat on August 13, 2022, 10:23:39 PM
.. where is the police report? Anybody seen one?

A good point.
If someone working for an organization, volunteer or not, reported a sexual assault that organization would be grossly irresponsible not to call the police.
Regardless of the victim's wishes.
Bad on whoever was running this at GenCon.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 13, 2022, 08:05:27 PM

Quote from: DocJones on August 13, 2022, 04:35:22 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 13, 2022, 12:51:42 PM
I've had to run criminal background checks on potential employees. It's neither fast nor cheap, and that's why it's typically not done until after a good first (sometimes second) interview. Trying to run checks on convention attendees would be madness.

Nah, it takes like 20 seconds and no charge to query the NSOPW. 
Hell they could do it anytime after ordering and before printing the badge or check it on arrival when their staff checks whether your other papers are in order.
WoTC says the are doing background checks on judges since that Jeremy Hambly exposed the MtG pedo judges.
I highly suspect that's why GenCon really banned him when he was the victim of an attack offsite two years later.

This is one of those times where exaggerating on the internet is truly not helpful. While an actual search for a proper name based on an ID might take 20 seconds to type into that search engine, that's not in a practical sense how this process would function. Because you're not dealing with a copy of someone's ID just popping up on a screen for you to enter - you're dealing with whatever name they put in the database for ticketing to begin with, with likely no other information like their permanent official address on record with the state and their date of birth and such. It would be a process fraught with errors and those errors make things crawl. This is not a practical solution.

I agree. I'm not going to drag this off topic further, but the "20 seconds approach" is woefully ineffective on its own.

Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 08:56:28 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:05:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 06:50:12 PM
I'm curious... do you think that men are statistically more likely to commit sexual assault than women are?

Yes, however, I did make a point of saying "I don't wish to try and convince anyone of it." Statistics rarely convince anyone, you can always slice and dice a statistic to say what you want.

Honestly, you made the main point I was trying to make a few posts ago, we don't yet know if GenCon was the source of them having to room together or if this was something that they agreed to ahead of time.

My thought is that it's far more a prevention of problems to not force strangers to bunk together than anything to do with gender identity.

Heck, last time I was given a free room I was expected to not just share the room, but also a bed.  (two beds, four occupants, and one of the beds was actually a pull out couch.)

Luckily two of my roommates didn't show and I knew the other. So I was fine. But, one of my roommates couldn't make it because he had been arrested.

That was one of those moments where I wondered if perhaps sharing the room blindly with someone else isn't a bit of an issue.

Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be?  All of a sudden, these last few years?

But he also believes that the abuser was and is a woman, ergo in his mind on the side that commits less sexual assault.

And that's the crux of his "argument".

Greetings!

Well, anyone that believes that the abuser is a "woman" must be an absolutely delusional moron. The abuser is a *man* that was wearing a dress and a fucking wig.

Geesus. It is so sad and pathetic that our society has become so mentally infantile and delusional.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I've known a trans woman for about half my life. I think of her as a woman. It's still present in my mind that she's a trans woman, but she's categorized as "woman" in my mind.

That doesn't mean this person that is the topic of this thread, who I've never met, I'd categorize that way. I don't know them so it's hard to say what I'd think about them in that respect. But I absolutely think at least my friend is rightly classified as a trans woman, and not a man in a dress. In fact it would be weird for me to try and think of her as a man. She's just...there is very little about her which I think of as man-like. However you'd describe that "sensing female" part of your senses, she registers that way. She was genuinely (in my opinion) just as an accident of nature born with the wrong genitalia, which fortunately was corrected.

And she does game (though not lately). I don't think she's been to GenCon but she's been to gaming cons. No idea if gaming and being trans runs more commonly together than non-trans people, though I do think the "play as another person" idea makes sense for someone who transformed their bodies to match how they think.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 14, 2022, 12:17:14 AM

I've known a trans woman for about half my life. I think of her as a woman. It's still present in my mind that she's a trans woman, but she's categorized as "woman" in my mind.

That doesn't mean this person that is the topic of this thread, who I've never met, I'd categorize that way. I don't know them so it's hard to say what I'd think about them in that respect. But I absolutely think at least my friend is rightly classified as a trans woman, and not a man in a dress. In fact it would be weird for me to try and think of her as a man. She's just...there is very little about her which I think of as man-like. However you'd describe that "sensing female" part of your senses, she registers that way. She was genuinely (in my opinion) just as an accident of nature born with the wrong genitalia, which fortunately was corrected.

And she does game (though not lately). I don't think she's been to GenCon but she's been to gaming cons. No idea if gaming and being trans runs more commonly together than non-trans people, though I do think the "play as another person" idea makes sense for someone who transformed their bodies to match how they think.

What?  Mistwell, a poster known for his/her milquetoast, conformist nature, and worship of middle-of-the-road thinking, is able to convince him/herself that a dude in a dress is actually a woman (showing his/her impeccable politeness)?  Who would have thought it possible?

The issue here is not whether you are capable of self-delusion (no question there).  The question is whether or not a convention like GenCon a) places its workers in shared rooms without the workers getting a choice, b) does so without respect to the sex or feelings of the people involved, and c) is in any way culpable for what happened to the victim in question because of the answers to the previous questions.  Now, I tend to think, unless the room assignment was forced and GenCon knew the roommate was a "dude-in-a-dress", and also the victim didn't complain beforehand, that this is mostly a self-inflicted situation.  There were lots of signs before "body draped over me" that the chick should have bailed.  But, in standard fashion for the young woke of today, when something untoward  happens, she is frozen in incomprehension ("How could this happen to ME?"), followed by running to mommy to fix it.  But this is a fault of how society has raised its young, especially young women, not GenCon.

Where there is some culpability on GenCon's part is in their response.  If they had gotten a report of a dude-in-pants that had behaved in this manner, that dude would have been escorted out posthaste (evidence be damned), and/or the victim moved to other quarters instantly (the offer of the manager's room may fit the second criteria...it's unclear if that was a personal or professional offer).  So there is a ton of double-standard in GenCon's response, apparently because we are dealing with "dude-in-a-dress"...

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 13, 2022, 07:36:30 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
Ok, but you do believe there are statistical differences. So you must also believe that statistics matter to some degree.
Here's a curious statistic for you, which has been noted in multiple studies; for some reason, the number of cases of women charged with sexual crimes has been going up over the last few years. Why would that be?  All of a sudden, these last few years?

I'm sure you're going to insinuate a reason that I will disagree with, but I also think we'd be veering off-topic if I presented a counter-argument and I'd rather not do that, correct?

Well, my answer would be that it's a major problem with gathering useful information while using only two gender categories for ideological reasons.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 13, 2022, 08:04:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 13, 2022, 05:41:48 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 12, 2022, 12:05:53 PM

Because working together REQUIRES you to share a room...

Well hang on now, because it's not clear to me either, which is the real situation. There's two very different scenarios.
Its clear that the two people involved already knew each other, had worked together before, were both invited in some way to be there by GENCON and were both put in the same hotel room.
But which of the two is the case:
1) GENCON required that volunteers or whatever share hotel rooms, and these two people who already knew each other both CHOSE to share a room together?

or

2) GENCON requires that volunteers share hotel rooms, and these two people were ASSIGNED to share a room together, and both just happened to know each other?


Because in fact those are two very different scenarios as per GENCON's policy/responsibility.

From what I understood the rooms were assigned by GenCon. If they REQUIRE the room sharing is beyond what I know and what was shared about this issue.

I don't KNOW which one of those is true, have you read the link? Can you elucidate from that what case it was?

No, I honestly don't know either. It's not very clear from the victim's account, whether they were just told by Gencon "you're sharing a room with this person" who they happened to have some previous acquaintance with, or if they volunteered/agreed to share the room with that person in some way.

Quote from: Koltar on August 13, 2022, 09:36:26 PM
Does the incident or event impact or affect the average gamer at Gen Con ?
At Gen con next year?

Or does it impact any average gamer anywhere?

- Ed C.

Well, it would certainly be something that might affect the streamer volunteers next year...

@Eirikrautha I think you're correct in that the incident itself was at least somewhat self-inflicted because the victim's Woke belief prevented her from evaluating her roommate as a man. If she was told that she was going to be given a male roommate I think she is more likely to have objected and pushed back, but because they guy is wearing a veil of being a woman her belief led her to thinking her roommate was no different than having a female roommate.

GenCon's response has been thoroughly hypocritical. If not for the veil of being a woman the violator would have been kicked out on his ass post haste, along with some PR to go along with it to show how GenCon was dedicated to providing safety. However, their Wokeness has prevented them from treating the violator the same as any other male who doesn't put on the transgender veil.

I would not expect GenCon to make any changes to how they handle room assignments as their belief in Wokeness is strong, unless the majority of their female guests they assign housing for demand a change, but I doubt that'll happen either. They've all made a crap sandwich for themselves, and by God they're going to keep eating that crap sandwich.