"A fool and his Kickstarter money are soon parted."
- Ken Whitman

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 11:40:54 AM
The whole post reads like a hit piece on a former employee rather than what it should be, an apology letter to the fans. But as typical with these narcissists, it's all deflection and excuses. The only time he even mentioned being sorry it was for having "to bring you all this news with such short notice." He's not sorry there won't be product, he's only sorry he didn't break the news sooner. What a stand up guy!

Actually it reads alot like various scam publishers excuses. This one just more stupid than usual.

Theres always some excuse like "the shipment is being held hostage by chinese officials!" which can be all too true. But of course the game never ships. Or conveniently only ships to stores. The rest "got lost!".

Or maybe they pulled a SuperDudes, Chevalier or Golden Bell maneuver and spent the money on something else. Starting their own financing company, buying a house and equipment to make indie films, or making and selling... plushes... No really. All 3 of those are ones that really happened.

Quote from: Omega on August 15, 2022, 11:53:28 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 11:40:54 AM
The whole post reads like a hit piece on a former employee rather than what it should be, an apology letter to the fans. But as typical with these narcissists, it's all deflection and excuses. The only time he even mentioned being sorry it was for having "to bring you all this news with such short notice." He's not sorry there won't be product, he's only sorry he didn't break the news sooner. What a stand up guy!

Actually it reads alot like various scam publishers excuses. This one just more stupid than usual.

Theres always some excuse like "the shipment is being held hostage by chinese officials!" which can be all too true. But of course the game never ships. Or conveniently only ships to stores. The rest "got lost!".

Or maybe they pulled a SuperDudes, Chevalier or Golden Bell maneuver and spent the money on something else. Starting their own financing company, buying a house and equipment to make indie films, or making and selling... plushes... No really. All 3 of those are ones that really happened.

All very real possibilities.

So, he said he had no booth in the link that you provided earlier, but at the bottom of that page there is a "previous story" button, and if you look it talks about Conventions and Gencon.

Click it and you see the explanation for why he had "no booth" but he still had "a booth."

https://coyoteandcrow.net/2022/07/21/conventions-and-cc/

But the gist is:

Quote
Currently, Gen Con 2022 is the only show we're scheduled to attend with a consumer booth and product sales. And the truth is, if I were given the opportunity to cancel our Gen Con appearance without serious financial repercussions, I would do it. There are simply too many downsides, costs and dangers. But, at this point, it's too late to back out, so all we can do is move forward and do the best we can.

To reconcile this "no booth" vs "booth" (without going into weird metaphysical explanations a la hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy where you have both "no tea" and "tea.")

And given that folks mentioned seeing someone else selling products out of that same booth:

They had already made commitment to have a booth, so in order to recoup money they permitted another vendor to sell out of their booth, but they were still responsible for the space, so they were there as well to make sure everything was ok.

I can't speak for what was said in any of those posts, but I figured that there most likely is a simple explanation for stuff.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 02:35:24 PM
So, he said he had no booth in the link that you provided earlier, but at the bottom of that page there is a "previous story" button, and if you look it talks about Conventions and Gencon.

Click it and you see the explanation for why he had "no booth" but he still had "a booth."

https://coyoteandcrow.net/2022/07/21/conventions-and-cc/

But the gist is:

Quote
Currently, Gen Con 2022 is the only show we're scheduled to attend with a consumer booth and product sales. And the truth is, if I were given the opportunity to cancel our Gen Con appearance without serious financial repercussions, I would do it. There are simply too many downsides, costs and dangers. But, at this point, it's too late to back out, so all we can do is move forward and do the best we can.

To reconcile this "no booth" vs "booth" (without going into weird metaphysical explanations a la hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy where you have both "no tea" and "tea.")

And given that folks mentioned seeing someone else selling products out of that same booth:

They had already made commitment to have a booth, so in order to recoup money they permitted another vendor to sell out of their booth, but they were still responsible for the space, so they were there as well to make sure everything was ok.

I can't speak for what was said in any of those posts, but I figured that there most likely is a simple explanation for stuff.

The simple explanation is that the xenophobe fucked up the delivery of his product in multiple aspects. I saw another vendor at his booth on the last day of the con. I didn't see anybody there on Thursday or Friday. I have no idea about Saturday. He may have made some of his money back, but highly doubtful it was more than a small proportion.

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 03:42:21 PM
The simple explanation is that the xenophobe fucked up the delivery of his product in multiple aspects. I saw another vendor at his booth on the last day of the con. I didn't see anybody there on Thursday or Friday. I have no idea about Saturday. He may have made some of his money back, but highly doubtful it was more than a small proportion.

Some is better than none. Regardless, dude decided to cut his losses, can't blame a business owner for that.

You can have whatever opinion you want of him for other things, but the idea that scaling back through laying people off and cutting back in promotion/advertisement will help prevent some but not all of your losses isn't too surprising.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 03:51:19 PM

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 03:42:21 PM
The simple explanation is that the xenophobe fucked up the delivery of his product in multiple aspects. I saw another vendor at his booth on the last day of the con. I didn't see anybody there on Thursday or Friday. I have no idea about Saturday. He may have made some of his money back, but highly doubtful it was more than a small proportion.

Some is better than none. Regardless, dude decided to cut his losses, can't blame a business owner for that.

You can have whatever opinion you want of him for other things, but the idea that scaling back through laying people off and cutting back in promotion/advertisement will help prevent some but not all of your losses isn't too surprising.

Sure I (or anyone else) can "blame" him for the cutbacks when they're a consequence of poor business management on his part. His currents actions can be rational in trying to limit the damage of the screwups. Still warms my heart to see a Woke xenophobe start to spiral down the drain.

Why anyone of good intent would want to white knight for a xenophobe is beyond me. I imagine in your case you can't help caping for a fellow Woke co-religionist.

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 05:05:50 PM
Sure I (or anyone else) can "blame" him for the cutbacks when they're a consequence of poor business management on his part. His currents actions can be rational in trying to limit the damage of the screwups. Still warms my heart to see a Woke xenophobe start to spiral down the drain.

Why anyone of good intent would want to white knight for a xenophobe is beyond me. I imagine in your case you can't help caping for a fellow Woke co-religionist.

I made a point to say that I couldn't speak for anything he said. I don't defend him because I don't know his product, haven't read anything about him prior to now.

I just tend to think in Occam's Razor terms, folks tend to get a tiny bit conspiratorial, but I tend to think simpler answers tend to be a little closer to the truth.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 05:05:50 PM
Sure I (or anyone else) can "blame" him for the cutbacks when they're a consequence of poor business management on his part. His currents actions can be rational in trying to limit the damage of the screwups. Still warms my heart to see a Woke xenophobe start to spiral down the drain.

Why anyone of good intent would want to white knight for a xenophobe is beyond me. I imagine in your case you can't help caping for a fellow Woke co-religionist.

I made a point to say that I couldn't speak for anything he said. I don't defend him because I don't know his product, haven't read anything about him prior to now.

I just tend to think in Occam's Razor terms, folks tend to get a tiny bit conspiratorial, but I tend to think simpler answers tend to be a little closer to the truth.

You've been defending him by deflection. That seems to be your entire participation in this thread.

You didn't just say "I couldn't speak for anything he said." You also aimed to make him immune to blame by trying to prohibit others from blaming him. To be blameworthy implies guilt, and everyone knows that to be truly Woke you have to be guilt free, especially if one is a member of a favored category of victim. To imagine this guy is blameworthy is probably anethema to the Woke. Thus, the caping.

Maybe he will have to take those 5000 donations of books back and sell them.
But that would make him a .....a...
What's that phrase for when someone want to take a gift back?

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 05:55:42 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 05:05:50 PM
Sure I (or anyone else) can "blame" him for the cutbacks when they're a consequence of poor business management on his part. His currents actions can be rational in trying to limit the damage of the screwups. Still warms my heart to see a Woke xenophobe start to spiral down the drain.

Why anyone of good intent would want to white knight for a xenophobe is beyond me. I imagine in your case you can't help caping for a fellow Woke co-religionist.

I made a point to say that I couldn't speak for anything he said. I don't defend him because I don't know his product, haven't read anything about him prior to now.

I just tend to think in Occam's Razor terms, folks tend to get a tiny bit conspiratorial, but I tend to think simpler answers tend to be a little closer to the truth.

You've been defending him by deflection. That seems to be your entire participation in this thread.

You didn't just say "I couldn't speak for anything he said." You also aimed to make him immune to blame by trying to prohibit others from blaming him. To be blameworthy implies guilt, and everyone knows that to be truly Woke you have to be guilt free, especially if one is a member of a favored category of victim. To imagine this guy is blameworthy is probably anethema to the Woke. Thus, the caping.

Greetings!

Excellent points, wmarshal!

If Hoshisabi "Isn't defending him"--then what is the argument about?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: DocJones on August 15, 2022, 05:57:26 PM
Maybe he will have to take those 5000 donations of books back and sell them.
But that would make him a .....a...
What's that phrase for when someone want to take a gift back?

Quote from: DocJones on August 15, 2022, 05:57:26 PM
Maybe he will have to take those 5000 donations of books back and sell them.
But that would make him a .....a...
What's that phrase for when someone want to take a gift back?

Someone just won the internet. 

Quote from: wmarshal on August 15, 2022, 05:55:42 PM
You've been defending him by deflection. That seems to be your entire participation in this thread.

You didn't just say "I couldn't speak for anything he said." You also aimed to make him immune to blame by trying to prohibit others from blaming him. To be blameworthy implies guilt, and everyone knows that to be truly Woke you have to be guilt free, especially if one is a member of a favored category of victim. To imagine this guy is blameworthy is probably anethema to the Woke. Thus, the caping.

Defense is a value judgement. You're saying "he has no explanation for why he said he had no booth but he had a presence in a booth."

I merely presented a possibility that would make sense. I didn't say it definitely WAS the explanation, merely that it was a possibility.

You make the same mistake that many on this forum do: you homogenize everyone who disagrees with you.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same, the "Woke" is not some monolithic group, and many folks that consider themselves woke would group me in with you.

When in fact, I presented nothing about my opinion about the game, which I said that I don't have. I've never played it, I've never read his words, I cannot provide a defense or attack them. I reserve my judgement for what I've actually had experience with.

So, if saying "Perhaps he tried to recoup a little bit of the cost of his booth by sharing it with others" is somehow a defense, yes, perhaps I did defend it. Only in that most miniscule of fashion. Saying that sometimes easy explanations exist for things isn't much of a stretch.

I'm also cautioning you to not fall into that mental trap where you become tribal, everyone who doesn't agree with you is against you. I've seen folks in the board start attacking each other calling each other woke and it's kind of silly. Some of y'all use the word like a kid who learned a new swear word and wants to use it as often as possible.

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 15, 2022, 08:52:42 PM
I'm also cautioning you to not fall into that mental trap where you become tribal, everyone who doesn't agree with you is against you. I've seen folks in the board start attacking each other calling each other woke and it's kind of silly. Some of y'all use the word like a kid who learned a new swear word and wants to use it as often as possible.

Careful there.  You are using "tribal" in a context as it's a bad thing.
I don't think our Coyote & Crow creators would appreciate that,
Although the C&C creator and the guy he fired are from different tribes.
Perhaps they went "tribal" and it was indeed a bad thing/.