Quote from: Koltar...and Millenia later  I bet a good Watcher would give that arrow to his Slayer.

Koltar, looking sharp my man :cool:

Quote from: jrientsDoes anybody have the old White Dwarf issue that offered a trimmed down version of Moria as a starting adventure?  If I recall correctly, Gandalf was something like a cleric 6.

White Dwarf #38 (Feb 1983)

Gandalf: man, 8th level cleric
Aragorn: man, 7th level ranger-paladin (Lew Pulsipher made this class up for the purpose of that article/module)
Boromir: man, 7th level fighter
Gimli: dwarf, 4th level fighter
Legolas: elf, 4th level fighter
Frodo: hobbit, 2nd level fighter
Sam, Pippin, and Merry: all hobbits, 2nd level thief

Quote from: DrewIt was just a bit of fun, an attempt to puncture the power gaming assumptions of the day.

I'd say amongst some, it still persists today. Or at least, as of the publishing of the Epic Level Handbook for 3e. There's an annoying tendency to place figures of legend at levels 20+ when level 10+ has, when you look at it, some pretty darn legendary stuff in it.

I was under the impression Gandalf kept things relatively tame so as not to give himself away. Doesn't he say at some point that the use of his power pretty much tells everybody the fellowship is hiding out from where they are? That said, I'm all for low powered epic fantasy, but I think that magic items screw the balance up more than any given character ability.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI'd say amongst some, it still persists today. Or at least, as of the publishing of the Epic Level Handbook for 3e. There's an annoying tendency to place figures of legend at levels 20+ when level 10+ has, when you look at it, some pretty darn legendary stuff in it.

Indeed. There's always been a tendency for gamers to imagine their favourite fictional characters as mega-powerful, an idea that's been encouraged by settings like the Forgotten Realms where it's patently the case.

As you say it's all relative. In a world where a 5th level fighter is considered to be a master swordsman a 7th level wizard who can whip off a fireball or two would be viewed with awe and dread. One method I've used to achieve this is by setting caps on NPC levels which are equal to the sum of their two highest ability modifiers +1. Thus a cleric with Wisdom 16 and Constitution 14 could advance no higher than level 6. Major NPC's (epic heroes & villains, heads of state etc.) are exempt, as of course are the PC's. It leads to the kind of world that is low in overall magic but still has the potential for the rare legendary figure who's capable of going toe-to-toe with a Fire Giant. It also helps emphasise the heroic nature of the party without having to award extra benefits and such.

I'll be using this method for my True20 Wilderlands campaign. Should be cool.

Quote from: AosI was under the impression Gandalf kept things relatively tame so as not to give himself away. Doesn't he say at some point that the use of his power pretty much tells everybody the fellowship is hiding out from where they are?

The Wizards, or Istari, were sent to Middle-earth to aid its peoples against the Dark Lord. Three of them are mentioned by name in The Lord of the Rings - Radagast the Brown, Saruman the White, and Gandalf the Grey. Two others are mentioned in material unpublished in Tolkien's lifetime (check Unfinished Tales for the story), Alatar and Pallando, called the Blue Wizards. These latter two went into the east and were never heard from again, apparently. All of the Istari are Maiar, and were permitted only to match power with power when absolutely necessary. Wielding such power openly could attract Sauron's attention, as Gandalf says at the Redhorn Pass. He battled the Black Riders at Weathertop, which, until he became the White, was his most open display of power.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThe Wizards, or Istari, were sent to Middle-earth to aid its peoples against the Dark Lord. Three of them are mentioned by name in The Lord of the Rings - Radagast the Brown, Saruman the White, and Gandalf the Grey. Two others are mentioned in material unpublished in Tolkien's lifetime (check Unfinished Tales for the story), Alatar and Pallando, called the Blue Wizards. These latter two went into the east and were never heard from again, apparently. All of the Istari are Maiar, and were permitted only to match power with power when absolutely necessary. Wielding such power openly could attract Sauron's attention, as Gandalf says at the Redhorn Pass. He battled the Black Riders at Weathertop, which, until he became the White, was his most open display of power.

Yes, the Istari's remit was to provide counsel and inspiration rather than blow shit up. IIRC it was a direct response by the Valar to the world having it's teeth kicked in during the wars with Morgoth. Matching power with power was seen as the surest route to destroying everything they were trying to preserve.

Of course the achilles heel of the plan was reducing the 5 Maiar who travelled from the west to a more or less mortal scale. As such they appeared far more vulnerable to temptation and corruption than if they'd maintained their semi-deific abilities and forms. Ultimately the tradeoff was worth it, but one has to wonder what would have happened if Gandalf had lost his way too. Radagast wasn't anywhere near as effectual, the two Blues disappeared and Saruman's descent was one of the greatest threats to the west. Food for thought, anyway.

Quote from: Drewthe two Blues disappeared

The wiki entry I was reading referred to a letter Tolkien wrote towards the end of his life which indicated that the Blue Wizards may, in fact, have been very successful in their mission. They were to go into the east and help the people there throw off Sauron's yoke. Apparently Tolkien related that they did, indeed, play a pivotal role in reducing and delaying the armies Sauron had available from the east, thus helping to save the west. But they did it "off stage." It's something I hadn't read before, and I liked the sound of it.

Sounds like good fodder for a campaign, actually.

I have no contribution to this thread, except to say - Colonel, I like your writeup of the Fellowship a lot!

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThe wiki entry I was reading referred to a letter Tolkien wrote towards the end of his life which indicated that the Blue Wizards may, in fact, have been very successful in their mission. They were to go into the east and help the people there throw off Sauron's yoke. Apparently Tolkien related that they did, indeed, play a pivotal role in reducing and delaying the armies Sauron had available from the east, thus helping to save the west. But they did it "off stage." It's something I hadn't read before, and I liked the sound of it.

Yeah, that does sound pretty cool.

Care to take a stab at the Balrog, Colonel?

::hands the Colonel Glamdring::

A Fiendish, Large Fire Elemental that uses a Flaming +1 greatsword and whip instead of the Fire Elemental's natural attacks could fit the bill. You'll have to wait on the stats...

And yeah, I got the pun

Genius! I was thinking demon or devil, but naturally those don't fit very well. Why fiendish template?

I have to admit, I really, really like taking a concept and tweaking D&D to fit it. It's a lot more interesting to slap a Balrog down than a Fire Elemental.

How do you figure Gandalf caused the Balrog to fall? Shatter spell?

Fiendish because it just fits the background of the critter, and provides it with a few extra abilities that are in keeping with what we saw in the books.

I really would have to sit down and put on my thinking cap to figure out how Gandalf defeated the Balrog. This is especially true because of Gandalf's account of his battle all the way down and then back up again to the top of the mountain with the creature.